(Search of) Locations

[Emaster]

Some locations can be translated into English and thus bear an English name besides a native name in another language. Which of them should be used in the database? The English name for the country and the town/city, the native name for the region (e.g. Munich, Bayern, Germany)? (There are probably no translations for the names of venues at all.)

The new location search is a useful feature of this site. (The old one still lingers here but is out of order.)

Is it correct that only locations are to be selectable which have held at least one boxing match so that locations to which no data can be found require deleting?

Our system is based on the English language. Umlaute like ä, ü, ö result in a display of question marks on some users screens which is why we avoid them.

That's plausible. On the other hand, the city of Dusseldorf has been transformed into Düsseldorf some time ago so that I thought BoxRec was in the process of using umlaut characters wherever they originally occur.

The database search does not function on non alphabet characters is the German u umlaut does not match the English u. So it's vital in some areas (boxers names) to clean the data, in other areas it is not so important at the moment.

I don't know of any function which demands the typing in of location names so that umlaute should be no problem in that regard. For me to understand, though, what the policy on the umlaut issue is: Is the city of Düsseldorf to be spelt Düsseldorf, Duesseldorf, or Dusseldorf in BoxRec?

[John]

Some locations can be translated into English and thus bear an English name besides a native name in another language. Which of them should be used in the database? The English name for the country and the town/city, the native name for the region (e.g. Munich, Bayern, Germany)? (There are probably no translations for the names of venues at all.)

I don't know of any function which demands the typing in of location names so that umlaute should be no problem in that regard. For me to understand, though, what the policy on the umlaut issue is: Is the city of Düsseldorf to be spelt Düsseldorf, Duesseldorf, or Dusseldorf in BoxRec?

It's not vital for users to use the correct location name, it is for editors however when entering shows to find the correct towns/venues.

[Emaster]

I don't know of any function which demands the typing in of location names so that umlaute should be no problem in that regard.

It's not vital for users to use the correct location name, it is for editors however when entering shows to find the correct towns/venues.

Now I see why the umlaut question matters as to locations as well .

Still, there are a few questions from the initial post :

Some locations can be translated into English and thus bear an English name besides a native name in another language. Which of them should be used in the database? The English name for the country and the town/city, the native name for the region (e.g. Munich, Bayern, Germany)? (There are probably no translations for the names of venues at all.)

Is it correct that only locations are to be selectable which have held at least one boxing match so that locations to which no data can be found require deleting?

Altoetting, Bayern, Germany is an example for that.

For me to understand, though, what the policy on the umlaut issue is: Is the city of Düsseldorf to be spelt Düsseldorf, Duesseldorf, or Dusseldorf in BoxRec?

[John]

The primary policy is that the database should only be alphabetic, ideally I shall convert it all to ascii at some point in the future. Place names should also be the English ones where practicable, but many of our foreign editors obviously do not know the English names for their countries' locations and it would be impratcicable to try and impose them..

[Emaster]

The primary policy is that the database should only be alphabetic, ideally I shall convert it all to ascii at some point in the future. Place names should also be the English ones where practicable, but many of our foreign editors obviously do not know the English names for their countries' locations and it would be impratcicable to try and impose them..

I primarily asked these questions as I was going to provide a list with umlaut characters or their nonumlaut equivalents in German location names. I wondered, though, in which direction BoxRec is going since I think Dusseldorf has changed to Düsseldorf in the database, which does not match the statements I've read on this. Now it's still to be decided with which characters the German umlaute are to be replaced, for instance "ü", which is presently altered into either "u" (Wurzburg) or "ue" (Eisenhuettenstadt). The latter would be used in German if the use of umlaute is not desirable.

Another list could show the English names of German locations where existing.

And a third list could present locations selectable but lacking data if the following question is answered positively:

Is it correct that only locations are to be selectable which have held at least one boxing match so that locations to which no data can be found require deleting?

Altoetting, Bayern, Germany is an example for that.

A fourth list could show locations of which there are multiple entries in the database. (Such cases have already been presented in single threads.)

The names of the locations could be adjusted (lists one and two) or deleted (lists three and four) when there is time.

[John]

all redundant locations are automatically deleted once a day.

[Emaster]

all redundant locations are automatically deleted once a day.

Otherwise I'll list them.

One question is still open:

Now it's still to be decided with which characters the German umlaute are to be replaced, for instance "ü", which is presently altered into either "u" (Wurzburg) or "ue" (Eisenhuettenstadt). The latter would be used in German if the use of umlaute is not desirable.

Ae/oe/ue or a/o/u instead of ä/ö/ü?

[Emaster]

all redundant locations are automatically deleted once a day.

The redundant entries I've been watching have not been deleted for several days. Can the automatic deletion be turned on or do such entries have to be listed so that they can be removed manually?

Ae/oe/ue or a/o/u instead of ä/ö/ü?

The answer ought to be "ae/oe/ue", going by what is said at the top of Wikipedia articles which present locations having an umlaut in their name, e.g. the one on Würzburg.

Thus, location names including an umlaut or a/o/u instead of it need altering.

[John]

All redundant locations are deleted automatically once a day, maybe the ones you are watching are not redundant, they could be the hometown of someone.

The character substitution is not rigidly enforced, it is done by the common usage of the editors involved, some are more familiar with English than others.

[Emaster]

All redundant locations are deleted automatically once a day, maybe the ones you are watching are not redundant, they could be the hometown of someone.

But why should locations to which BoxRec does not attribute any fight cards be included in the location search, the function of which is listing cards sorted by date?

The character substitution is not rigidly enforced, it is done by the common usage of the editors involved, some are more familiar with English than others.

I don't propose imposing punishment on those who fail to abide by the rule , I just think there should be one so that those who do care if the location is to be spelt Würzburg, Wuerzburg, or Wurzburg know what to do.

[John]

All redundant locations are deleted automatically once a day, maybe the ones you are watching are not redundant, they could be the hometown of someone.

But why should locations to which BoxRec does not attribute any fight cards be included in the location search, the function of which is listing cards sorted by date?

because the location system is universal, not specific to shows or people

The character substitution is not rigidly enforced, it is done by the common usage of the editors involved, some are more familiar with English than others.

I don't propose imposing punishment on those who fail to abide by the rule , I just think there should be one so that those who do care if the location is to be spelt Würzburg, Wuerzburg, or Wurzburg know what to do.

It's a selection box, most of the duplicate names have been edited out but there are still lots of inconsistencies of spelling

[Emaster]

All redundant locations are deleted automatically once a day, maybe the ones you are watching are not redundant, they could be the hometown of someone.

But why should locations to which BoxRec does not attribute any fight cards be included in the location search, the function of which is listing cards sorted by date?

because the location system is universal, not specific to shows or people

I wonder whether it would be technically feasible to specify the location search to shows; its use would certainly benefit from it only including locations where at least one fight has been held. Anyway, can locations be manually removed from the lists the location search offers?

The character substitution is not rigidly enforced, it is done by the common usage of the editors involved, some are more familiar with English than others.

I don't propose imposing punishment on those who fail to abide by the rule , I just think there should be one so that those who do care if the location is to be spelt Würzburg, Wuerzburg, or Wurzburg know what to do.

It's a selection box, most of the duplicate names have been edited out but there are still lots of inconsistencies of spelling

Which cannot be eliminated as long as the target spelling remains obscure . But as umlaut characters have been excluded for being nonalphabetical and as they are usually substituted by their alphabetical equivalents followed by e's, I dare conclude that the spelling of the city of Würzburg in BoxRec ought to be Wuerzburg.

More questions:

If a location has been renamed so that both a location search entry named after its historic name and a modern name entry refer to it, should the entries be merged under the location's modern name?

If a formerly independent town/city has become part of another one with both of them having separate entries in the location search, should the entries be merged?

[John]

u umlaut is not necessarily ue in English, this is an English database and there inevitably will be inconsistencies, it is the English way

[Emaster]

u umlaut is not necessarily ue in English

I see that there are two ways of umlaut transliteration. Würzburg, for instance, has become Wurzburg in the database, but could also have been transliterated as Wuerzburg. Altötting, on the other hand, has become Altoetting in the database, but could also have been transliterated as Altotting.

Ä can become a or ae, ö can become o or oe, and ü can become u or ue although, according to the Printing conventions in German, "simply omitting the dots is considered incorrect." At the moment, both ways of transliteration are used in BoxRec, which is aesthetically unpleasing. Besides, one transliteration is clearer than the other. Using ae, oe, or ue as the English transliteration means that the word must be spelt with ä, ö, or ü in German or that it is spelt the same as in English. Using a, o, or u as the English transliteration also allows the interpretation that the original word does not include an umlaut at all but a, o, or u instead.

For instance, "Wuerzburg" in English means that the original German name must either be spelt the same or "Würzburg" (the latter is the case), while "Wurzburg" means that the German original is either spelt "Würzburg" or "Wurzburg". While the pronunciation of "Würzburg" agress with that of "Wuerzburg", "Wurzburg" is pronounced differently.

Hence, I propose using ae, oe, or ue as the sole transliterations for umlaut characters.

Not every editor might be willing to tackle this matter but those who do should be provided with a guideline so that they have the chance to act consistently and can track down and adjust the inconsistencies.

It's like American and British spelling, which are both correct, but should be avoided in the same text.

Some questions remain to be answered:

If a location has been renamed so that both a location search entry named after its historic name and a modern name entry refer to it, should the entries be merged under the location's modern name?

If a formerly independent town/city has become part of another one with both of them having separate entries in the location search, should the entries be merged?

And a question/suggestion:

But why should locations to which BoxRec does not attribute any fight cards be included in the location search, the function of which is listing cards sorted by date?

because the location system is universal, not specific to shows or people

I wonder whether it would be technically feasible to specify the location search to shows; its use would certainly benefit from it only including locations where at least one fight has been held.