1974 George Foreman -vs- 1988 Mike Tyson?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 24 Sep 2007, 04:47

Interesting match-up that I got into a heated but good-natured argument at the bar I work at with some locals.

In my view, Foreman is too strong for Tyson here. True, on paper Tyson owns more strengths, but I feel his style is very similar to Frazier's. Physically, Frazier is a poor man's Tyson. But I imagine the result would be much the same once Tyson failed to intimidate the monster that was the 70's Foreman at ring center.

He runs headlong into Foreman's best punches, IMO. KO2. Any thoughts?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 24 Sep 2007, 05:36

I don't know about that. They're the same height, & are stylistically similar. Low, crouching fighters, both with the pendulum motion defense, who can only fight coming forward.

Physically, I think Frazier is a poor man's Tyson. Tyson is heavier, undoubtedly stronger, he's faster with his hands, is a better two-handed puncher (upstairs at least) & carries more power. I think his chin is better than Frazier's too, at least in the context of absorbing one big shot, although Tyson's chin surely erodes faster with sustained punishment than Frazier's does.

It's not to say Frazier is a poor man's Tyson in complete terms. The intangible aspects to a fighter's game favour Frazier easily. But physically, Frazier is smaller & weaker.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 24 Sep 2007, 07:23

Tyson's head movement, even at his "peak" was greatly over rated. He never had the cosntant bobbing and weaving motion of Frazier, and I do not agree that Tyson's handspeed was greater than Fraziers.

Either way, a peak Foreman bounces Tyson around like a rubber ball. The difference between Frazier and Tyson is that Tyson wouldn't keep getting up.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 24 Sep 2007, 12:46

The Great John L wrote:Tyson's head movement, even at his "peak" was greatly over rated. He never had the cosntant bobbing and weaving motion of Frazier, and I do not agree that Tyson's handspeed was greater than Fraziers.

Either way, a peak Foreman bounces Tyson around like a rubber ball. The difference between Frazier and Tyson is that Tyson wouldn't keep getting up.

I'd say Tyson was quicker, he could unload combinations very fast and I think he had equal power, but Frazier's defensive attributes like his chin were better. Frazier was a better fighter yes, but he wasn't as quick as Tyson, a large reason why Tyson was able to take opponents out so quickly is because his style was somewhat of a mix between Frazier and Foreman where he'd look to do a lot of damage with quick powerful combinations very early. Frazier was more patient and he didn't throw combos as fast.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 24 Sep 2007, 17:45

Tyson is not as good as Frazier. That said, I do think Mike clearly had faster hands, and he hit harder with both hands.

I'd pick George, maybe in seven. I don't think Mike would get KO'd as quickly as Joe, Joe was more of a slow starter. But Foreman would survive the battle. Mike would walk into George's uppercuts, and while they both have the power to hurt each other, George has heart and will be able to stand up to Mike.

barry · Post by **barry** » 24 Sep 2007, 17:49

1988 Tyson would knockout Foreman of any era. Tyson had too many weapons, but his combination of extreme speed and extreme power would just bowl over Foreman...not to mention that Tyson had a great chin as well as a very good defense at his best. About the olny advantages that Foreman would have might be size and strength. I'd pick Tyson to win by knockout between round 3 and round five!!!

Tyson, at his best, had quite possibly the fastest hands of any heavyweight in history.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 24 Sep 2007, 17:53

barry wrote:Tyson, at his best, had quite possibly the fastest hands of any heavyweight in history.

I'll never understand that. Forgetting Ali, just look at Patterson. Mike was not as fast as Patterson.

barry · Post by **barry** » 24 Sep 2007, 17:58

Tyson was right there with Ali. He may not have been faster than Ali, but if he wasn't, he was damn close. Chris Byrd had extremely fast hands as well, about as fast as Ali and Tyson, but Tyson, at his best, threw hooks and uppercuts as fast as any heavyweight that I have ever seen!

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 24 Sep 2007, 20:49

Tyson was fast in his hay day. He was as quick as any heavy that ever fought. I agree with barry on that one.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:09

I'm not disagreeing that Tyson was one of the fastest, but not the fastest. Maybe top four or five among Heavyweight champions, some might say top three.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:26

Tyson's handspeed, in my view, was always overshadowed by his knockout power. He's clearly quicker than Frazier for mine. My vote for the fastest hands amongst Heavyweight champions would be...

1. Patterson
2. Ali
3. Louis
4. Tyson
5. Tunney

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:35

Hand speed, schmand speed, its going to be a bad style matchup for Tyson. The way he fights benefits George Foreman, because Tyson fights he'd be walking straight and right into Foreman's preferred punching range. Not to mention Tyson likes to initiate clinches and a prime Foreman was strong enough to push him off. I mean it wasn't like Tyson was exactly Floyd Mayweather defensively, he could be hit, and with this bad style matchup he'd get hit more!!!

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:39

generic screen name wrote:Hand speed, schmand speed, its going to be a bad style matchup for Tyson. The way he fights benefits George Foreman, because Tyson fights he'd be walking straight and right into Foreman's preferred punching range. Not to mention Tyson likes to initiate clinches and a prime Foreman was strong enough to push him off. I mean it wasn't like Tyson was exactly Floyd Mayweather defensively, he could be hit, and with this bad style matchup he'd get hit more!!!

Precisely. Styles make fights, & Tyson fits right into Foreman's punching range nicely.

Klee Gluckman · Post by **Klee Gluckman** » 25 Sep 2007, 02:19

Styles wise this is a horrible match for Tyson. Even Cus D'Amato said Tyson was made for Foreman.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 25 Sep 2007, 08:37

Tyson was so accurate and put his punches together so well.

I think he's quicker, more accurate and would be all over Foreman early on. I can imagine him blowing out George before he knows what's happening. BUT if George lands somethign significvant early on the Tyson will start to hesitate like he did against everyone who landed solidly.

If Tyson goes into his shell then Foreman could really work him over.

Both men were awe inspiring offensive fighters but both were very beatable.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 25 Sep 2007, 10:18

In fantasy fights people go way overboard with the "Tyson by KO within 3 rounds"

What true world class fighter did Tyson ever knockout inside 3 rounds besides Trevor Berbick and Tony Tubbs??

If he doesn't do it to Smith, Tucker, Tillis, Green, Ribalta, Bruno, and Ruddock, he's not doing it to George Foreman.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 25 Sep 2007, 10:24

dempseyfire wrote:In fantasy fights people go way overboard with the "Tyson by KO within 3 rounds"

What true world class fighter did Tyson ever knockout inside 3 rounds besides Trevor Berbick and Tony Tubbs??

If he doesn't do it to Smith, Tucker, Tillis, Green, Ribalta, Bruno, and Ruddock, he's not doing it to George Foreman.

I think this is a good point.

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 25 Sep 2007, 13:09

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 25 Sep 2007, 13:32

Thanks for the analysis Dave. Of course, I'd favor Scott Frank over either one of them.

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 25 Sep 2007, 14:09

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 25 Sep 2007, 14:18

DaveV17 wrote:Okay John L.

I will try to follow this advice in the future.
"Never argue with an idiot; they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ~ anonymous

That's why I now avoid arguments on this forum...

However, I must thank you for your posts on this forum as they have provided much enjoyment.

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 25 Sep 2007, 14:26

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 25 Sep 2007, 21:17

DaveV17 wrote:Speed kills and Tyson was much faster than Foreman. Foreman would not be able to hit Tyson with his wide, winging punches. Tyson would be hitting him, with quicker, harder shots than he had ever been hit with before.

Mike Tyson could take Foreman's best if he got hit (unlikely) and he could return hard punches with a speed that Foreman had never seen. If Foreman tried to fight, Tyson would stop him quick, if Foreman got hit, and decided to run and play defense, he might last the distance.

Tyson and Joe Frazier had nothing in common except height. Tyson regularly fought men Foreman's height and taller. The Frazier comparision is not relevant.

Very humourous, Dave.

Can you do Ali vs Tyson for us?

That should be good for another laugh...

DaveV17 · Post by **DaveV17** » 25 Sep 2007, 22:17

Collins2000 · Post by **Collins2000** » 25 Sep 2007, 22:50

DaveV17 wrote:Collins, I'm glad you enjoyed my post.

Not as funny as a Crankberry post, Dave, but pretty close.

1974 George Foreman -vs- 1988 Mike Tyson?

1974 George Foreman -vs- 1988 Mike Tyson?

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