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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2010, 22:03 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
How do you think he would have fared as a professional boxer?

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=42669


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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2010, 22:12 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
Here is Abramov boxing 4 years earlier in 1958.


http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=64100


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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2010, 17:18 

Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 348
Neat. I wouldn't call him another Liston but he definitely looks like he had some potential -- maybe a lot of potential.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2010, 01:05 

Joined: 27 Mar 2010
Posts: 9
Location: Chicago
I definitely think if they had been allowed to enter the pro boxing world the eastern bloc countries would've really messed with history.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2010, 04:43 

Joined: 03 Dec 2005
Posts: 6861
He probably would have done the same as Liston and been annihilated by Clay.


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010, 20:50 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
IMOP He may have been a top ten contender by the time Ali was stripped of his title,
and instead fought Joe Frazier,or perhaps Jimmy Ellis for a title belt.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2010, 14:52 

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 5583
I disagree. The Americans regularly had the upper hand in AM comps vs the Soviets, the same would've occured for the most part in the pro ranks. Look at what correlated with American HWs doing awful on the pro scene . . they've been too piss-poor in the AMs for over a decade.
Hell, just look at instances like an incredibly green, raw 19 year old Foreman just walking over an older, much more experienced Jonas Čepulis in the Olympics.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2010, 17:41 

Joined: 27 Feb 2002
Posts: 194
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
dempseyfire wrote:
Hell, just look at instances like an incredibly green, raw 19 year old Foreman just walking over an older, much more experienced Jonas Čepulis in the Olympics.

Look also how he struggled in eliminations to win a SD against Trela, who was 5'7'' and 189 (even if also more experienced).


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2010, 16:09 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
George Foreman was like an anamoly.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2010, 16:12 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
Also since the East Europeans fighters back then(1950's,1960's,the Cold War era) could never turn pro,there was no incentive to really improve and they just got stale when they should have been in their prime.
(i.e bukko... millions... and millions and.... MILLIONS of rubels.)


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2010, 16:17 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
Who were the best Heavyweight East European amateur fighters of the
1950's-1970's?
How would they be ranked?
There seems to be so little film or video-tape of their fights available.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2010, 19:37 

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 5583
Brutu wrote:
George Foreman was like an anamoly.


Not really. Most U.S. amateurs were babies compared to the fighters from the communist states they were boxing. People hail about Stevenson but the guy was in his physical prime (late 20s/early 30s) blasting out 20 year olds.


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2010, 12:37 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
Ron Lyle was about 30 years old when he fought as an amateur.


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2010, 06:44 

Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 513
Amateur boxing back in the day used to be much better, There was not head gear. The matches were often charged by political fiction as well between nations.

I never heard of Abramov until now. He looks pretty good. If I were to pick a Russian amateur champion pre 1980 that could have been champion, my pick is Igor Vysotsky. Vysotsky was a hard punching fighter who beat the best amateurs of his time, including some who would become champion in the professional ranks. If Vysotsky tuned pro in the early 70's, he might have been the top guy in the mid to late 70's as Ali, Foreman, and Frazier began to fade. Check him out on the below link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Vysotsky


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2010, 12:56 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
Is there any film/video footage of Igor Vysotsky?
esp sparring with Ali?


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2010, 14:44 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
How good was the 6 foot 5 inch tall,Russian amateur heavyweight Evgeny Makarenko?


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2010, 15:19 

Joined: 01 Apr 2010
Posts: 388
:D


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2010, 21:10 

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 5583
Brutu wrote:
Ron Lyle was about 30 years old when he fought as an amateur.


Lyle was in his late 20s as an amateur, and had just started boxing in his 20s in prison . .

I'm not saying the Soviet fighters sucked, I just believe the HW scene would've still been dominated primarily by U.S. fighters, but of course someone like a Vysotsky could've been a champ in the late 70s, as long as he didn't fight Larry Holmes :D


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2010, 21:23 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
IMOP,American amateur boxers esp heavyweights,had/have the luxury of eating big thick juicy steaks and drink lots of milk
as they train and get ready.
Soviet amateur boxers back then probably just felt grateful to get a bowel of gruel at the end of the day,
and maybe a few rubels for pocket change at the end of the year if they were lucky.

BTW Anyone know if Sylvester Stallone based the character "Ivan Drago' from ROCKYIV(1985),
on any particular boxer?


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2010, 15:09 

Joined: 29 Oct 2003
Posts: 5583
Brutu wrote:
IMOP,American amateur boxers esp heavyweights,had/have the luxury of eating big thick juicy steaks and drink lots of milk
as they train and get ready.
Soviet amateur boxers back then probably just felt grateful to get a bowel of gruel at the end of the day,
and maybe a few rubels for pocket change at the end of the year if they were lucky.

?


Are you being serious?
The USSR treated their top amateurs VERY well. The Soviet Union was one of the two superpowers in the world at the time, it wasn't Somalia. For those the regime deemed 'special', and that would include their Olympic athletes, they were garnished with top shelf resources . . .I'm sure that included plenty of 'big juicy steaks' . . .


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2010, 16:06 

Joined: 01 Apr 2010
Posts: 388
Brutu wrote:
Soviet amateur boxers back then probably just felt grateful to get a bowel of gruel at the end of the day,
and maybe a few rubels for pocket change at the end of the year if they were lucky.


You appear to have no knowledge of how the USSR viewed it's top sportsmen.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2011, 19:04 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
check out how Abramov blocks a left to the body when he was against the ropes.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=64100[/quote]

anyone have a listing of all of Andrei Abramov's amateur record?
did he go to the Olympics?
what American or West European amateur heavyweights that later turned pro
did he fight?
Did Abramov eventually lose to Jonas Chepulis(who didnt look like a spring chicken when he fought 19 year old George Foreman in MexicoCity in 1968).


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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2011, 02:25 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
I have read of another Russian amateur heavyweight champion
by the name of Vadim Yemelyanov who competed in the 1964 Olympics in Tokyo Japan.
He was big ,6 ft 4 inches tall and 230 lbs.
He fought Joe Frazier in the semi-finals.
Frazier knocked him down twice in the second and his handlers threw in the towel.
Frazier also broke his own thumb in doing so too.


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2011, 08:22 

Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3275
Here is a link to a rare pic of Joe Frazier in the semi-finals of the 1964 Tokyo Olympics knocking down Vadim Yemelyanov,in which Frazier would also
break his thumb.
Frazier did not know that he had broken his thumb other then it really hurt.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tbEDAA ... pg=PA48&dq

also be sure to scroll up to see a pic of George Foreman vs Stamford"Big Bamboo"
Harris who would later become one of Foreman's sparring partner in Jamacia in 1973.


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