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 Post subject: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 09 May 2013, 20:03 

Joined: 13 Sep 2012, 11:39
Posts: 64
This guy was good........anybody remember ??


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 10 May 2013, 07:50 

Joined: 01 Jan 2007, 18:55
Posts: 199
He had a long string of wins leading close up to getting whacked by Monzon, I remember the Ring articles on him well.
Noticed he fought Jax native Dennis Riggs numerous times and your old buddy Tony Gardner as well on the way up, Max.
Pretty sure the Monzon fight is on YouTube.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 11 May 2013, 10:45 

Joined: 13 Sep 2012, 11:39
Posts: 64
thanks guy's !


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 11 May 2013, 19:08 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
He was a protected hype job who started losing the instant he stepped up the competition.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 11 May 2013, 19:47 

Joined: 07 Jun 2005, 16:37
Posts: 18359
Location: Sleepy New England Town
klompton......why so edgy on this one?


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 12 May 2013, 20:52 

Joined: 01 Jan 2007, 18:55
Posts: 199
Was Emile Griffith not "a step up in competition"?


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 13 May 2013, 18:27 

Joined: 01 Jan 2007, 18:55
Posts: 199
I usually find Klompton to be dead center on issues, but his response was surprising. Maybe compared to the hype Licata got in the mags, he was a hype job and disappointment. I thought he had some decent wins as well after his crash and burns against Monzon and Minter, but he never really regained contender status after those losses either. I thought the win over Griffith was worthwhile for the time period.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 14:40 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
No, in short I dont consider the Griffith of 1974 a step up for Licata. Between 1972 and his retirement Griffith fought 22 fights and only won nine of those. He wasnt the Griffith of 1967 anymore. Licata was getting a lot of hype in the ratings and magazines based on his record and win streaks but look at his level of competition. He was being very carefully matched against a skill set and level of competition designed to keep him unbeaten. Monzon had him under control without extending himself so you could say "Monzon was just THAT good." But in his next fight the incredibly one dimensional face first Jean Mateo beat the poo out Licata. And dont say he was suffering from the Monzon fight because he didnt exactly suffer a beating in that bout and Mateo was several steps down in class from that level anyway. It should have been a relatively safe fight for Licata but instead it basically spelled the end of him. So yes, in my opinion he was overhyped, protected, and overrated.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 15:46 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Once again Il Duce is wrong. Griffith did NOT give a good account of himself against Mundine. I had him winning two rounds as he lumbered around the ring chasing the far more mobile aussie. Griffith had very little left in the tank in 1974.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 17:17 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Once again Il Duce is posting about things hes only read about in American magazines and newspapers, whereas I have actually SEEN the Griffith-Mundine fight. Griffith lost in one sided fashion. Its as simple as that. I had heard for years that Griffith got jobbed against Mundine so when I finally got the film i was fully prepared as a Griffith fan and someone who doesnt think much of Mundine to be outraged. Instead a saw decidedly old looking Griffith get completely outboxed due in large part to Mundine's athleticism.

Griffith had two good wins that year :roll: Renato Garcia... theres a name we all remember. Yes, he beat Briscoe but Briscoe wasnt exactly the most consistent performer either. Thats beside the point though because it wasnt a question of whether Griffith could cobble together a win here and there. It is the fact that he could no longer do it consistently, making him vulnerable and a relatively glossy name for relatively low risk.

Maybe you are imressed by Griffith nearly beating the legendary :roll: Eckard Dagge for a jr. Belt but im not. I guess your standards are lower than mine though...


Last edited by klompton on 17 May 2013, 16:05, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 16 May 2013, 20:09 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
I think we can see from the screen captures below who is full of poo here. Ive seen the fight and can watch it anytime I want, you havent. I will believe my eyes before I believe some AP report.

Yes, the crowd did chant Griffith's name. He was wildly popular in Europe, especially France. However, they did so after a thunderous applause and cheer went up when the decision in favor of Mundine was announced.

It was an easy win for Mundine. Period.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 07:20 

Joined: 01 Jan 2007, 18:55
Posts: 199
Gee, I had no idea my comment would start this level of rancor about Licata-Griffith. Feel sorta bad about it now.

Licata didn't, I suppose, show well in losing next to Mateo as Klompton noted.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 08:48 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Hilarious. You call me "cut and paste" when I prove you wrong, and yet its you who keeps linking to AP articles on the fight. Like I said, I'll believe what my eyes and ears "See" before I believe some pinhead on the internet who has never seen the fight. I dont care what Griffith "a very nice man" has to say about the fight. Hes not exactly a disinterested party. He and Gil Clancy also came back with tales about his loss to Bonnatez being the worst robbery in history and THAT was a very close fight. The bottom line is that the Griffith of the Licata fight was not even a 50/50 fighter who had only won ONE of his previous FIVE fights. That one win came against Manny Gonzalez who had only won 4 of his last 16 fights. I'll let others judge the merit of that win. Nowadays even the corrupt sanction bodies would have dropped Griffith from their ratings with a record like that yet somehow you think this is evidence of Licata's merit. Like I said, a glossy name with low risk. Exactly what a promoter/manager looks for to hype a protected fighter. I guarantee Ive seen more of Licata than you Il Duce. Im also well aware of the hype and his ridiculous unbeaten record that garnered him his world rating. Which is exactly the point as to why I call him overhyped, overprotected, and overrated. Come back and spout more of your garbage when youve seen more of Licata than whats on youtube and google news...


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 12:32 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Oh he was excellent now? Wow Tony Licata was excellent... so i guess loucif hamani, bouttier, cohen, etc were all excellent as well? I guess jean Mateo was excellent as well, and Gratien Tonna too. Just which fights of these guys from this era have you seen? You spout off, like you did about franklin-douglas about things youve only read about. You havent seen the franklin fight, i have, yet you argue with me about it, you havent seen mundine-griffith, i have, yet youre going to tell me what happened in it. You say "i remember first hearing about licata in ... You didnt hear about Licata in 1970s because you werent born yet and if you were you only read about him. Name me one fight of his outside the two on youtube on youtine that he lost, youve seen. But be careful because i may have it and call you out on more bullshit. "Cut and paste" whatever il googlenews...


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 15:56 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Unlike you I judge by what Ive seen. Not what Ive read in anonymous AP reports generated thousands of miles away from the action and read decades later by a dimwitted armchair expert.

Here is the "excellent" Tony Licata getting completely hammered by the limited, one dimensional, face first Jean Mateo who despite having absolutely no defense and not being the most durable guy in the world, while also being susceptible to cuts, and himself having been fairly carefully matched completely kicked the holy hell out of Licata. So if Licata was excellent then Mateo must have been a fighter of friggin legendary proportions. But you already knew that right? Because youve seen this fight. Should I go on and post some earlier fights of Licata when he was a teenage sensation? Since you know so much of him you can write more fake ringside reports full of errors and pretend youve seen them and then I can blast holes in them for you based on the actual films of the fights. Go ahead, call me a liar, or cut and paste but it just makes you look like the idiot for arguing about something you havent seen.

Biff!
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Bam!
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Boom! Man, Im so fantastic I cant keep my hands up despite slow, telegraphed punches coming at me..
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Save me Il Googlenews!!!
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Whooops! Down again, it wasnt the first and wont be the last...
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Gee I wish I was as good as Il Googlenews thinks I was. Otherwise I wouldnt have lost to a guy who was beaten to a bloody pulp in two rounds by that other legend Gratien Tonna...
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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 16:35 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Its hard to tell from the photos but this bloody fumbling mess (after less than two rounds) beat the very excellent Tony Licata in his previous match.

This is the sum total of Mateo's defensive genius. Extending both arms straight out in front of you to try to keep your opponent at arms length as he batters your face...
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By this point in the fight Mateo's back, shoulders, and neck were scraped raw from being hammered on the ropes. His face was bruised, cut and bleeding, and he was completely clueless.
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And here we have Mateo deciding that discretion is the better part of valor, seeing that the day was lost he opted instead to take a siesta and concede defeat to Tonna.
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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 17:11 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Oooooh I see. Licata lost to Mateo because he was injured... Im sure he had a wonderful excuse for every fight he lost, struggled in, or drew. I doubt he entered that fight thinking he was going to lose because he was injured. In reality the limited Mateo smashed the limited Licata. Cream rises to the top and neither of these guys ever could. Licata wasnt excellent he was an also-ran whose best win came over a 36 year old fighter who wasnt winning half of his fights at the time regardless of the level of competition. If thats special to you then thats fine but but I dont have beer goggles on and I can tell a limited fighter when I SEE one. This basically goes back to my initial point. I stated that Licata was overhyped. He got a lot of play in press in the mid 1970s. You only rely on magazines and newspapers so you dont know any better. Its why your arguments are always faulty and your fight descriptions often have so many mistakes in them. If all you know of Licata is what youve read then of course you think he was excellent. But, unlike you Im basing my argument on a variety of sources and taking into account context and how history sees Licata (which is typically a better way of judging legacy than the hype machine prior to the fighters warts being exposed). Now, you continue to insult me personally and name call. I will remind you that it was you who started personal attacks. I simply pointed out that your report was wrong and you reacted like you got your p___y slapped. Id hate to see you get banned because you cant take criticism of your revisionist postings.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 18:31 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
And if Tony were as good as you say, which he wasnt, and Mateo was as bad as he was, which he was, then it would have still been an even fight. Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one. If Licata thought he would lose to the limited Mateo he wouldnt have taken the fight. I.e. his "injury" is no excuse. Except for your weak argument based on nothing but your imagination.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 21:23 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Yup. The same Duran who had won one of his last four fights, whose last fight was an 8 round loss to that legend roberto benacquista. Yeah that was a quality win for your excellent fighter, at home no less... :roll: yeah, duran went on to win just five of his next fourteen fights, those wins only coming against fighters with losing records. Thats besides the fact that the only "worthwhile" win on his record was a squeeker against the geriatric griffith who ive already established im not impressed with at this point in his career. Way to go. Your making a great case for licata not being a carefully matched oveprotected fighter...


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 17 May 2013, 23:00 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
The light punching Gene Wells was 33 and had been stopped the year before by the smaller Elisha Obed. He had never won a big fight and would never get close to another "important" fight much less win one. Nice try. In fact he is exactly the type of fighter that Licata pointlessly padded his record with, fighting him three times when he was well past his prime. Was Gene Wells excellent also? You never did answer my question as to how many times you saw these guys fight, which fights, etc. Why cant you just admit you are wrong. You got busted making it up as you go along on Franklin-Douglas and now your doing it again. One of us has proven they can pull up these fighters and watch their fights whenever they choose. The other continues to cut and paste Googlenews links and quote Ring magazine. So all I can infer is that you have a stack of old magazines and a connection to the internet. Other than that you have no frame of reference for these fighters.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 10:48 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Have you seen Gene Wells fight?

Have you seen the Franklin Douglas fight?

Oh Im sorry, he was 4 months shy of 33. My mistake. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 12:12 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
Now your just going to lie...

If youve seen Franklin Douglas you wouldnt have discussed it with so many mistakes. I asked if youve seen Gene Wells, not for a mini bio you could get from a google search.


i guess i could just go through your posts gere and on other forums for ecamples of your lies. Its not like your reputation isnt well known for making things up.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 12:20 

Joined: 07 Jun 2005, 16:37
Posts: 18359
Location: Sleepy New England Town
klompton wrote:
Now your just going to lie...

If youve seen Franklin Douglas you wouldnt have discussed it with so many mistakes. I asked if youve seen Gene Wells, not for a mini bio you could get from a google search.


i guess i could just go through your posts gere and on other forums for ecamples of your lies. Its not like your reputation isnt well known for making things up.


Klompton, perhaps I have not payed attention to your entire body of work. The contributions I had read until recently were focused on foundational fact finding. Now I'm not saying you've abandoned that at all. However it does seem you are demonstrating an edge that I was not aware you possessed.

Also I have seen you prop up fighters, and defend them but I'm less familiar with you going after a fighter with a "negative inventory" approach. Do you have a "dog in this race"? lol. Or is Tony genuinely a case study that you feel needs to be "outed"? Due to misconceptions? You've been a good proponent for some fighters, not seen you go after someone before.

Is it purely "in pursuit of the facts"? Just curious.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 18 May 2013, 23:32 

Joined: 01 Jan 2007, 18:55
Posts: 199
Tony Licata would probably be thrilled to see how much attention he's getting in this thread.
And it's probably his greatest career accomplishment, no matter how good his wins over Rossman and Griffith really were, that he managed to get a flame war started between two noted boxing historians such as Klompton and Il Duce.


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 Post subject: Re: Teenage Tony Licata
PostPosted: 19 May 2013, 13:00 

Joined: 07 Jul 2003, 02:27
Posts: 1911
I dont have anything against Licata other than he is an early example of something that has become endemic in the sport today. he was a product of careful matchmaking, protective officiating, and media hype based on his unbeaten record (which was the idea in protecting him: keep him winning, keep the gravy train rolling, and get him a championship, win lose or draw to cash in). He was not brought along to develop him as complete fighter. this is so common today that its predictable people wouldnt find anything wrong with this but at that time fighters were still being developed to fight and win on their merits. Licata never had the tools to really continue winning at the highest level when he wasnt at home. He was nothing special, ive stated my case and its based on first hand experience, not second and third hand sourced.


Last edited by klompton on 19 May 2013, 17:09, edited 1 time in total.

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