Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

For discussions on the great and not so great fighters of the past.
scartissue
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Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby scartissue » 23 Jun 2013, 12:41

Armando who had been fighting primarily at The Olympic Auditorium, had switched
over to Don Fraser and The Forum in late-1974, which seemed to advance his
position as a Challenger for the World Welterweight Championship.


Il Duce, regarding your statement here about Muniz and where he was fighting. Actually Muniz was thrown out of the Olympic back in '71 after the Oscar Albarado fight. His manager Jake Horn got into a dispute with Aileen Eaton who told Horn to hit the road. He then began fighting for the Forum and anywhere else until '73, when he acquired co-manager Vic Weiss, who soothed things out with Eaton. But Muniz was one of the few fighters who was not a house fighter, which i'll bet pissed off Eaton, but I'm sure she was smart enough to see he was box-office and had to accept it. He fought steadily at the Olympic, also for Mickey Davies down in San Diego, for the Flores family in Tucson and also for the Forum. As a matter of fact, when he got the call to fight Napoles, he was in training for an Ernie Lopez rematch at the Forum. Regarding your details on the fight, i have watched this fight many times and never saw anything intentional in the way of butting by Muniz. It was his style to get inside, and Napoles countered him beautifully, but again, I never saw anything intentional. I'm not trying to give out here, please carry on, I am totally enjoying your take on this.
scartissue
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Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby scartissue » 23 Jun 2013, 21:38

Il Duce, there is another good write-up out there from Rich Roberts I believe, who wrote for the Long Beach Press. He gave a scathing diatribe on the fight. I believe he mentioned the entire chance Muniz received was predicated on the fact that Muniz was cut in the Lewis fight. An edict was then given that no swabs were to be permitted by either corner. This of course is loading the gun for Napoles. However, Roberts noted that the Napoles corner was using swabs and they were all 'lost' in the crowd between rounds. I watched everything intently and did see something handed off to someone at ringside, but of course I don't know what it was. Roberts also mentions the 12th where "Napoles looked like he was hit with a custard pie he had so much goop applied to his face". Basically, everything was in Napoles' favor. I don't want to get ahead of myself because you're doing a fine job detailing the fight, but the 11th was a travesty. I sort of lost count how many low blows Napoles threw and landed on Muniz while the thief Ramon Berumen looked the other way. It was comical how when Napoles was coming forward Muniz instinctively lifted his leg to protect the twins, while Berumen looked around. Muniz himself told me, "Berumen was just sitting there waiting for me to retaliate so he could DQ me." Also, my score up to about the 8th round was all for Napoles. Muniz fought inside and Napoles countered. However, in the 8th, Muniz changed his gameplan. He began jabbing his way in, which tore open the cuts. Another 30 seconds on that 10th round and Muniz would ahve had him, napoles was hurt that bad. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Please continue.
El Gallo
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Joined: 22 Nov 2012, 22:35

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby El Gallo » 24 Jun 2013, 12:53

I am close with both Armando Muniz and Don Fraser.
Scartissue, you and I were standing right next to Muniz last October at our CBHOF event, when Mando told us of Fraser not allowing him out of a contract he'd signed when given an opportunity to fight Napoles in Mexico. They had signed days earlier, and Fraser used his contract options to take money out of the boxer's pocket. I have been close with Mando Muniz since we were both amateurs, and I fought on the undercard of 8 Muniz events, including his matches with Emile Griffith and Clyde Gray. It was an honor serving as the WBHOF's historian and executive director under Mando when he was President of that organization. I am very interested in this thread, and as soon as I have time will review all of the above posts. I know Il Duce and my pal Scartissue are talking some great history here, of particular interest to me having been around back when this was going on. -Rick Farris
scartissue
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Joined: 31 Mar 2002, 20:00

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby scartissue » 24 Jun 2013, 16:10

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Rick Farris,

I stumbled upon some new reports that stated,

Armando Muniz would make his first defense at The Forum, if he had defeated Jose Napoles
in Acapulco on Saturday - March 29, 1975.

This deal was cut, to allow Armando to get out of his 'signed contract' to fight Ernie 'Indian Red' Lopez
on Friday Night - March 28, 1975.

Not sure if this was true or not.

Nobody in Mexico thought that the '10-1 Underdog' Armando Muniz had the boxing skills to defeat
even an aged Jose Napoles, especially South of the Border.

Supposedly, Mantequilla was expecting nothing more than a 5 or 6 Round bout, and had sparred with
Mexican Welterweight - Arturo Zuniga accordingly, in preparation for a 'fast-paced' bout.


Cuco Conde evidently did not do his homework on Muniz. If he had he would have seen that Muniz not only had never been stopped but had never been down. In fact, the Napoles rematch was the first time Muniz ever tasted canvas. I believe the thought process was that Napoles would stop Muniz on cuts. As I mentioned before, the Napoles camp interest in Muniz having been cut against Lewis and disallowing the use of swabs (well, for Muniz anyway). Sounds like they were stacking the deck for Napoles. BTW, Rick, thanks for chiming in, I knew you'd be close to the situation. Il Duce, please continue, it's like a story we're revisiting.
elmersalsa
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Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby elmersalsa » 25 Jun 2013, 17:43

Very unfair stoppage. Armando "Mando" Muniz was robbed big time!
SenorPipino
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013, 19:40

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby SenorPipino » 26 Jun 2013, 15:26

Always thought it was amazing that a Mexican national (Muniz) was shafted in his own country of birth against a fighter born in Cuba. Where was the home-country edge? Mantequilla was treated as a god in Mexico by this time.
Stracey was fortunate that he wasn't DQ'd for some reason nearly 2 years later when he ended Napoles' title reign and career in the Mexico City bullring.
SenorPipino
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013, 19:40

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby SenorPipino » 26 Jun 2013, 17:03

Il Duce wrote:Correct on Jose 'Mantequilla' Napoles being regarded as a National Hero.

In 1970, he was voted as the most popular person in Mexico.

Always considered a regular guy, and loved by the masses.

Even after he won the Welterweight Championship by defeating Curtis Cokes,
he still lived in a small 2-Bedoom Apartment in the lower income section of Mexico City.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Championship Bout with Armando Muniz was poorly Referee'd by Ramon Berumen,
and the Acapulco Boxing Commission let the bout get out of control.

Armando did 'head-butt' Mantequilla many times early in the bout, but was never
'penalized', though he was warned, but only 'twice' by Referee Berumen
{once in Round 3, and once in Round 5}.

Both cuts over Napoles eyes were a result of punches, but the damage was exacerbated
by Armando's continuous head use during the later-middle rounds, which worsened the
gashes.

Jose Napoles had '25-Stitches' above the right eye, and '12-Stitches' in the left eye-lid muscle area.

http://www.boxing-kit.com/images/uploads/b182.jpg



I've seen various web articles that don't often portray Mantequilla as a "regular guy."
Described as voilatile drinker, very arrogant and something of a bully. Any insight on this?
Myenna1
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Joined: 26 Jun 2013, 15:52

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby Myenna1 » 26 Jun 2013, 17:07

My Dad "Ernie Indian Red Lopez" said "Jose Napoles" was like a deer that you could never put down, no matter how many times you shoot him...
SenorPipino
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013, 19:40

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby SenorPipino » 26 Jun 2013, 17:16

Myenna1 wrote:My Dad "Ernie Indian Red Lopez" said "Jose Napoles" was like a deer that you could never put down, no matter how many times you shoot him...


I do recall Napoles showing genuine concern for your dad after their 1973 rematch at the Forum. He cradled your dad's head in a photo that I recall seeing in many newspapers and boxing magazines. I guess Mantequilla did have a soft side.
BTW, your dad gave the legend quite a battle in the second bout and was very likely ahead on points entering the fateful 7th round.
Rover
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Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby Rover » 27 Jun 2013, 07:46

Il Duce wrote:After Bout Actions

* April 30 {Sunday}
Both the 'AP' and 'UPI" reported that the decision that both the WBC and Acapulco Boxing Commission
made during the 12th Round was an 'injustice', and that their decision to award Champion - Jose Napoles
the Title by a 'Technical Decision' was a 'sham'.

* April 30 {Sunday}
The WBC {Associate Representative} Jose Sulaiman, stated that the damage caused to the Champion's face
was a result of mostly illegal fouls 'head-butts' and not punches by Challenger - Armando Muniz.

* April 30 {Sunday}
Jose Sulaiman stated that the Ringside Officials deducted '2-Points' from the Challenger, for dangerous
and intentional use of his head in Rounds 3 and 5.

You mean March 30?
Rover
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Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Jose Napoles vs. Armando Muniz 'I'.....'Fair or Unfair'

Postby Rover » 28 Jun 2013, 02:43

Il Duce wrote:
Il Duce wrote:After The March 29, 1975 {Saturday Night Bout} Actions

* March 30 {Sunday}
Both the 'AP' and 'UPI" reported that the decision that both the WBC and Acapulco Boxing Commission
made during the 12th Round was an 'injustice', and that their decision to award Champion - Jose Napoles
the Title by a 'Technical Decision' was a 'sham'.

* March 30 {Sunday}
The WBC {Associate Representative} Jose Sulaiman, stated that the damage caused to the Champion's face
was a result of mostly illegal fouls 'head-butts' and not punches by Challenger - Armando Muniz.

* March 30 {Sunday}
Jose Sulaiman stated that the Ringside Officials deducted '2-Points' from the Challenger, for dangerous
and intentional use of his head in Rounds 3 and 5.

* March 31 {Monday}
Manager - Vic Weiss filed a protest with the WBC, and asked the Officials to review the Bout and reverse their
decision, and award his fighter Armando Muniz the WBC Championship by TKO 12.

* March 31 {Monday}
Dr. Horacio Ramirez {Doctor for Jose Napoles} stated that 'Mantequilla' will be under his care and observation
for 1-Month in Mexico City, as the damage to the left eye-lid may have affected the muscle area of the eye-lid,
and that Jose Napoles may have suffered permanent damage to the muscle.

* March 31 {Monday}
It was reported, that Jose Napoles received '25' stitches over the right eye-lid, and '12' sticthes on the left
eye-lid.

* April 1 {Tuesday}
Manager - Vic Weiss sent a letter to the WBA {World Boxing Association} asking for them to position his
fighter as the #1 WBA-ranked Challenger, as result of Armando Muniz' performance on Saturday Night.

* April 1 {Tuesday}
The WBC Executive Committee announced that it would 'not' review the Film of the Saturday Night
Championship Bout, and will stand by their earlier decision, and recognize that Jose Napoles retained
his WBC Welterweight Championship by a Technical Decision.

* April 2 {Wednesday}
Jose Napoles stated that Challenger - Armando Muniz was the 'toughest' contender he has ever fought
in the Welterweight Division. But claims that Armando is a 'dirty fighter', and committed numerous
head-butts in their bout with intentions of trying to hurt him.

* April 2 {Wednesday}
Jose Napoles stated that he had difficulty making weight, but also denied rumors that he didn't train
hard for the bout. 'Mantequilla' said that he ran hard every day in training camp, and was in good
condition.

* April 4 {Friday}
Jose Napoles acknowledged that he was badly hurt by Armando Muniz' punches in Rounds 10, 11 and 12.
'Mantequilla' stated that he was blinded by the blood flowing in his eyes, and that his vision was blurred.

Jose Napoles, "I was desperate, and I panicked when I saw all the blood. I could only see shapes, and I
started to throw punches wildly. I had no idea of where they were going. I was only trying to defend
myself in Rounds 10, 11 and 12."

* April 5 {Saturday}
Dr. Horacio Ramirez released a letter stating that he recommends Jose Napoles to stay out of the
Ring for 3-Months, to allow the 'eye-cuts' to heal properly.

* April 7 {Monday}
The WBC makes an announcement that it would like Champion - Jose Napoles to defend his Championship
next, against #1 Challenger - John H. Stracey, as soon as he recovers from the cuts that he received in his
Title Defense with Armando Muniz.

* April 7 {Monday}
The WBC also states, that the winner of the Jose Napoles vs. John H. Stracey bout must face Armando Muniz
who has now been positioned up to the #2 WBC-ranked Challenger, as the 'first title defense'.

WBC Ratings {April 1975}
*** Jose Napoles
#1.. John H. Stracey
#2.. Armando Muniz
#3.. Clyde Gray
#4.. Bruno Arcari
#5.. Rocky Mattioli
#6.. Joseph Bessala
#7.. Shoji Tsujimoto
#8.. Carlos Obregon
#9.. Angel Espada
#10 German LaMaittre

* April 12 {Saturday}
Angel Espada {W Dec 10} over Luis Acosta in a WBA Elimination Bout in Puerto Rico, and is listed as the
#1 WBA-ranked Challenger, and next 'Mandatory Challenger' to face Jose Napoles.

* April 17 {Thursday}
Dr. Elias Cordova {WBA President} announces that Jose Napoles has 30-Days {by May 16, 1975} to sign
a contract to defend his WBA-version of the Welterweight Championship against Angel Espada of {Puerto Rico}.

* April 29 {Tuesday}
#1 WBC-ranked John H. Stracey defends his European Welterweight Champion by {RTD 6} over Max Hebeisen,
and is hoping to fight Jose Napoles next, possibly in July or August of 1975.

* May 7 {Wednesday}
Under pressure from the West Coast Promoters and the Boxing Press, Carlos 'Cuco' Conde states that his fighter
Champion - Jose Napoles will most likely give Armando Muniz a rematch in July 1975.

* May 14 {Wednesday}
Armando Muniz signs a contract with Danny Productions to face Jose Napoles on July 12, 1975 and in Mexico City,
providing that a 'Neutral Referee' and a 'Neutral Judge' are part of the Officials.

* May 16 {Friday}
The WBA President (Dr. Elias Cordova} announced that the WBA will strip Jose Napoles of his Championship for
failure to make an effort to sign to fight #1 WBA-ranked Angel Espada.

* May 17 {Saturday}
Jose Napoles said that he would fight for the WBC, as that organization is based in his home-country of Mexico.

The Champion stated, "I will not listen to the threats of the WBA. The WBC is recognized as the most
legitimate boxing authority. It is the WBC that controls the sport."


Rematch.......{July 12, 1975}........Just '105-Days' after their brutal bout on March 29, 1975.

http://static.boxrec.com/wiki/thumb/d/d ... POSTER.jpg

Saying the WBC is more legitimate than the WBA is like saying that dog crap is more palatable than kitty litter.

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