World boxing history challenge Week 3 - Emile Griffith vs Nino Benvenuti

[davie]

Fight of the year 1967
The first encounter between Nino Benvenuti and Emile Griffith at middleweight

https://youtu.be/cBIEO8Ms998

Enjoy ( not sure it's the entire fight given the length of the film)

[handsofstone]

Ive seen the 1st 2 of their fights, I don't think the 3rd fight is available, I never really enjoyed either but this is a classic fight

[davie]

Previous weeks bouts
Week 1 - Leonard/Hearns. http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=207995
Week 2 - Olivarez/Castillo 1 http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208158

Main thread - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... e#p4571725

As a supplementary, I considered the fatal Benny kid Paret bout but having read that it's quite a brutal ending I thought better of it.
Emile had a great rivalry at 147lbs with Luis Manuel Rodriguez. So heres the third from that series

https://youtu.be/B9YxWTbgKSQ

[davie]

Emile Griffith vs Nino Benvenuti
1. 9 - 10 Benvenuti. Good opening round, Nino timing the shots better, couple good one-twos, Emile reaching for shots
2. 8 - 10 Benvenuti. Making good use of the height and reach. Keeping Emile on the back foot, and resorting to rushing to get in range. Good KD
3. 10 - 9 Griffith. Emile getting into range better and landing left hooks and a couple chopping rights
4. 10 - 8 Griffith. Great right hand sends Benvenuti sprawling across the ring
5. 9 - 10 Benvenuti, backed Emile up for much of the round and got slightly more success
6. 9 - 10 Benvenuti using the half step back with the jab well, a great tool when you're an upright boxer with advantage in height and reach
7. 9 - 10 Benvenuti closer round. Griffith getting more success but I think he needs to get inside to the body more. Struggling with range
8. 10 - 9 Griffith using better head movement to get inside, using the left to the body and right to the head. Turning this into more of a fight, should suit Griffith
9. 10 - 9 Griffith, timing and countering Ninos jab, but more worryingly for the Italian, Griffith starting to beat him to the jab
10. 10 - 10 Even, good round, both getting plenty big shots off with mixed success

I seem to have lost some rounds somewhere

13. 10 - 9 Benvenuti. good round
14. 10 - 9 Benvenuti another close one but I preffered Ninos countering to Emiles aggression
15. 10 - 9 Benvenuti. Another good round for Nino. Jabbing and moving for the first half, then he went for the kill a couple times in the last minute or so

From the 13 rounds I watched I scored it 124-122 to Benvenuti.

A good fight with the obvious difference being Benvenuti being the taller man. That's not to say that's the only reason he won, he did so as he boxed particularly well and used his physical advantages in his favour. Using a solid jab, excellent movement and good counter punching when Emile lunged in.

I've often said of tall rangy upright boxer/puncher types that the half step back is an excellent weapon. I often use Wlad Klitschko as the perfect example and think it's the key weapon in his defensive arsenal.
It allowed Benvenuti to get off with the jab, and keep out of range. If Emile didn't rush in Nino got off a free scoring jab, if he did rush in Nino was often able to counter.
It makes it a very hard job for Emile to get off his best work or make it the type of fight he needed it to be. It's not a guaranteed winner and can be beaten if the opponent can counter the jab and get inside but on this occasion a great fighter in Emile Griffith couldn't overcome it.

As for Emile, it's easy to see here, how at 5'7" he struggled to make the mark against middleweights that he did against welterweights

[Andrew]

Was a good fight. Sometimes the fight of the year tags can raise expectations too much. Just looking at Griffiths resume, he was fighting all the time and had trilogies with a few guys.

He was THE world champion in three weight classes as well. No easy belts up for grabs then you have the beat THE CHAMPION . If someone achieved that in the modern era they would be a global superstar.

Obviously way before my time but I'm under the impression that the achievements of Griffith could have been overshadowed because Ali would have been grabbing the headlines in boxing back then.

[davie]

Emile Griffith vs Luis Manuel Rodriguez

1. Griffith
2. Griffith
3. Griffith
4. Rodriguez
5. Griffith
6. Rodriguez
7. Rodriguez
8. Rodriguez
9. Rodriguez
10. Rodriguez
11. Griffith
12. Rodriguez
13. Even
14. Rodriguez
15. Griffith

142-144 Rodriguez

A slow start, Rodriguez choosing not to get going until the 4th*. He was quite effective behind the jab but Emile was doing the work, so I gave him the first 3.

From there in I gave Rodriguez just about everything. Neither man had a bad round as such but I felt Rodriguez boxed well and when Griffith came in, Rodriguez tucked up well and flurried effectively to the body. Decent fight and one I felt Rodriguez won by a couple.



*Interesting how you could give 3 rounds away like that in a 15 round fight and know you had plenty of time to claw it back, a riskier game in a 12 rounder (although in this case I had Rodriguez winning by the same 2 point margin after 12)

[Andrew]

Previous weeks bouts
Week 1 - Leonard/Hearns. http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=207995
Week 2 - Olivarez/Castillo 1 http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208158

Main thread - http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... e#p4571725

As a supplementary, I considered the fatal Benny kid Paret bout but having read that it's quite a brutal ending I thought better of it.
Emile had a great rivalry at 147lbs with Luis Manuel Rodriguez. So heres the third from that series

https://youtu.be/B9YxWTbgKSQ

Watched the third paret fight the other day literally one of the most mental fights I have watched .

That left hook Paret landed on Griffith was a finishing shot as well.

The ending is the most brutal and sickening finish to a fight I have ever seen.

[Ambling Alp II]

Ive seen the 1st 2 of their fights, I don't think the 3rd fight is available, I never really enjoyed either but this is a classic fight

The third fight was on ESPN Classic several years ago. I saw most of it. I think those two guys were meant to have close, exciting fights.

[Andrew]

Been reading this book on Emile and really enjoying it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mans-World-Dou ... 147113234X

The author did a really good book about Joe Louis and Jesse Owens which is also worth a read.

[elmersalsa]

Was a good fight. Sometimes the fight of the year tags can raise expectations too much. Just looking at Griffiths resume, he was fighting all the time and had trilogies with a few guys.

He was THE world champion in three weight classes as well. No easy belts up for grabs then you have the beat THE CHAMPION . If someone achieved that in the modern era they would be a global superstar.

Obviously way before my time but I'm under the impression that the achievements of Griffith could have been overshadowed because Ali would have been grabbing the headlines in boxing back then.

The great Muhammad Ali stole all the headlines!

These are the reasons:
1. He was a heavyweight...plus the heavyweight champion of the world at that.
2. He was electrifying. His big mouth also got to do with people to come to see him get beat.
3. He was a rare specimen of an athlete. Young, handsome, fast, strong, black, fearless and a body of a god.
4. He was an American.
5. He can rhyme and boast the round his opponent will fall. He was really something to see. He knew how to market himself.
6. And lastly, he was good! Too good to be true no matter if you hated him or loved him. He was something else!

[elmersalsa]

As of the great Emile Griffith. He was fighting in his third weight class, too. People forget that he was also the super welterweight world champion at one time. He was a triple crown division titlist. A great boxer that didn't got the credit he deserves.

[PredatorHayds]

Been reading this book on Emile and really enjoying it.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mans-World-Dou ... 147113234X

The author did a really good book about Joe Louis and Jesse Owens which is also worth a read.

Best boxing book I've ever read.

Incredible fighter in and out of the ring.

[Ambling Alp II]

As of the great Emile Griffith. He was fighting in his third weight class, too. People forget that he was also the super welterweight world champion at one time. He was a triple crown division titlist. A great boxer that didn't got the credit he deserves.

I think the reason that most people "forget" that Griffith was the superwelterweight champion at one time was because he never was.
Griffith was not a triple crown titlist.

[Kalan]

Emile Griffith vs Nino Benvenuti
1. 9 - 10 Benvenuti. Good opening round, Nino timing the shots better, couple good one-twos, Emile reaching for shots
2. 8 - 10 Benvenuti. Making good use of the height and reach. Keeping Emile on the back foot, and resorting to rushing to get in range. Good KD
3. 10 - 9 Griffith. Emile getting into range better and landing left hooks and a couple chopping rights
4. 10 - 8 Griffith. Great right hand sends Benvenuti sprawling across the ring
5. 9 - 10 Benvenuti, backed Emile up for much of the round and got slightly more success
6. 9 - 10 Benvenuti using the half step back with the jab well, a great tool when you're an upright boxer with advantage in height and reach
7. 9 - 10 Benvenuti closer round. Griffith getting more success but I think he needs to get inside to the body more. Struggling with range
8. 10 - 9 Griffith using better head movement to get inside, using the left to the body and right to the head. Turning this into more of a fight, should suit Griffith
9. 10 - 9 Griffith, timing and countering Ninos jab, but more worryingly for the Italian, Griffith starting to beat him to the jab
10. 10 - 10 Even, good round, both getting plenty big shots off with mixed success

I seem to have lost some rounds somewhere

13. 10 - 9 Benvenuti. good round
14. 10 - 9 Benvenuti another close one but I preffered Ninos countering to Emiles aggression
15. 10 - 9 Benvenuti. Another good round for Nino. Jabbing and moving for the first half, then he went for the kill a couple times in the last minute or so

From the 13 rounds I watched I scored it 124-122 to Benvenuti.

A good fight with the obvious difference being Benvenuti being the taller man. That's not to say that's the only reason he won, he did so as he boxed particularly well and used his physical advantages in his favour. Using a solid jab, excellent movement and good counter punching when Emile lunged in.

I've often said of tall rangy upright boxer/puncher types that the half step back is an excellent weapon. I often use Wlad Klitschko as the perfect example and think it's the key weapon in his defensive arsenal.
It allowed Benvenuti to get off with the jab, and keep out of range. If Emile didn't rush in Nino got off a free scoring jab, if he did rush in Nino was often able to counter.
It makes it a very hard job for Emile to get off his best work or make it the type of fight he needed it to be. It's not a guaranteed winner and can be beaten if the opponent can counter the jab and get inside but on this occasion a great fighter in Emile Griffith couldn't overcome it.

As for Emile, it's easy to see here, how at 5'7" he struggled to make the mark against middleweights that he did against welterweights

Benvenuti was vulerable to right hands -- which he also showed against Monzon.. Griffith got an angle on him over his left shoulder and ripped him.. If Griffith were a big Middleweight he would have flattened him right there.. Benvenuti was too stiff and spastic, not smooth with his jab, a rabbit puncher, and a chronic clincher.. He was a lot like Amir Khan in his defensive vulnerability and Monzon blasted him.. I thought Griffith won his 2nd and 3rd Benvenuti fights.

I had Rodriquez beating Griffith in their trilogy. He was a little better defensively and a little better with his jab. But I don't think any of those 3 fighters compare to Monzon, Toney, McCallum, Hopkins, Jones, Golovkin, Eubank, or Jacobs.

[elmersalsa]

As of the great Emile Griffith. He was fighting in his third weight class, too. People forget that he was also the super welterweight world champion at one time. He was a triple crown division titlist. A great boxer that didn't got the credit he deserves.

I think the reason that most people "forget" that Griffith was the superwelterweight champion at one time was because he never was.
Griffith was not a triple crown titlist.

C'mon Ambling Alp! Yes, he was! Emile Griffith won the WBA World Super welterweight/Jr. Middleweight title in 1962. He was the division first world champion ever. He never defended it, though.

[Ambling Alp II]

Griffith was never the WBA Super-welterweight/Jr. Middleweight champion.

[elmersalsa]

Griffith was never the WBA Super-welterweight/Jr. Middleweight champion.

Yes he was. The first champion of the world of the jr middleweight class.

[elmersalsa]

Griffith was never the WBA Super-welterweight/Jr. Middleweight champion.

Yes he was. The first champion of the world of the jr middleweight class.

[davie]

As of the great Emile Griffith. He was fighting in his third weight class, too. People forget that he was also the super welterweight world champion at one time. He was a triple crown division titlist. A great boxer that didn't got the credit he deserves.

I probably haven't helped his case here.
This thread was to show case Griffith's fine talents and I showed 2 fight that I scored to his opponent by a couple of points.
Maybe need to make sure I get him knocking someone out next time

[elmersalsa]

As of the great Emile Griffith. He was fighting in his third weight class, too. People forget that he was also the super welterweight world champion at one time. He was a triple crown division titlist. A great boxer that didn't got the credit he deserves.

I probably haven't helped his case here.
This thread was to show case Griffith's fine talents and I showed 2 fight that I scored to his opponent by a couple of points.
Maybe need to make sure I get him knocking someone out next time

Try these fights:
Emile Griffith vs Dick Tiger I and II...His victory over Tiger was his defining fight. He jumped 13 pounds and took the crown from a great champion in his prime. Tiger later won the World Light-heavyweight Boxing Championship when he defeated champion Jose "Chegui" Torres twice.

Emile Griffith vs Benny Paret I, II and III....It is Griffith at his very best. Sharp, quick, strong and durable with exceptional technical skills. It saddens me that in this forum he is not very revered as other boxers. The great Muhammad Ali was the best fighter of the 1960s decade. He was a heavyweight for starters. Plus, his trials and tribulations with the U.S. government made him more larger than life even if it wasn't a positive impact. There was no athlete in the 1960s all over the world that got more attention than he. That is probably that great boxers like Eder Jofre, Vicente Saldivar, Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Carlos Ortiz, Tiger and the same Griffith never got the attention they deserved.

Also, try to see videos of him of his fights with Gaspar Ortega, the great Luis Manuel Rodriguez and Denny Moyer. I am glad we are finally talking about a TRUE BOXING LEGEND for a change.

And for Ambling Alp. Yes, Griffith was the World Jr Middleweight Boxing Champion. He won the crown on November 17, 1962 in Austria defeating Teddy Wright on points in 15. He only defended once, and relinquished it in 1963.

[Ambling Alp II]

He was never the WBA Superwelterweight or Jr. Middleweight champion as you claimed. You are factually incorrect.

[elmersalsa]

He was never the WBA Superwelterweight or Jr. Middleweight champion as you claimed. You are factually incorrect.

Yes, he was. He was the WBA World Jr. Middleweight Champion on October 17, 1962 in Vienna, Austria against Teddy Wright. He defended the crown once and relinquished it in 1963.

[elmersalsa]

The great Emile Griffith won the WBA World Jr Middleweight on October 17, 1962 against Teddy Wright in 15 rounds points verdict in Vienna, Austria.

Then on February 3, 1963, he defended it against Chris Christensen in Copenhagen, Denmark. He defended the crown successfully by knockout. He relinquished it months later to concentrate on his World Welterweight Title.

[Ambling Alp II]

Boxrec has Denny Moyer winning the WBA title on October 20 1962, and being the first WBA as being the Champ at 154.

I checked three record books: The Encyclopedia of Boxing, The Illustrated History of Boxing, and Boxing Illustrated. All say the same thing. None mention Griffith ever being the WBA Champion. All mention Denny Moyer winning the WBA title on October 20 , 1962 and becoming the first WBA champ at that weight class.

According to boxrec, Griffth was regarded by the Austrian Boxing Board of control (whatever that is) as being the champion at 154. The Ring Record book lists him as being the champ at 154 by the EBU, but not by the WBA. The Austrian Boxing Board of Control and the EBU are not major governing bodies.

Griffith was never a WBA champ or the lineal world champion at 154.

[elmersalsa]

Boxrec has Denny Moyer winning the WBA title on October 20 1962, and being the first WBA as being the Champ at 154.

I checked three record books: The Encyclopedia of Boxing, The Illustrated History of Boxing, and Boxing Illustrated. All say the same thing. None mention of Griffith ever being the WBA Champion..

According to boxrec Griffth was regarded by the Austrian Board of control (whatever that is) as being the champion at 154. The Ring record book lists him as being the champ at 154 by the EBU, but not by the WBA. Those are not major governing bodies.

Griffith was never a WBA champ or the lineal world champion at 154.

The Encyclopedia of World Boxing circa, 1995, had Emile Griffith as the first world champion of the 154lbs division. He indeed was a triple crown division champion.