OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

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wouter
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby wouter » 20 Sep 2009, 04:39

Emaster wrote: Thus I now propose the simple definition: "RTD - retired - is a term used when the referee does not permit a boxer to come out for the next round. RTDs are often recorded as TKOs. They are recorded in a boxer's knockout total." Possible reasons for retiring a boxer could additionally be mentioned.


Of course it's only the ref that can stop a fight, but he may do so based on the fact that a fighter doesn't want to come out anymore - which happens in 50% of all RTDs.

I suggest the following. "RTD - retired - is a term used when the referee stops a fight after a round has been completed. He may do so using his own or the doctor's judgement or when a fighter has indicated that he does not want to continue. RTDs are often recorded as TKOs and are included in a boxer's knockout total."
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby Emaster » 20 Sep 2009, 12:20

wouter wrote:I suggest the following. "RTD - retired - is a term used when the referee stops a fight after a round has been completed. He may do so using his own or the doctor's judgement or when a fighter has indicated that he does not want to continue. RTDs are often recorded as TKOs and are included in a boxer's knockout total."
Let's use that definition if no one disagrees.
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby wouter » 21 Sep 2009, 02:02

:TU:
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby Blue » 24 Sep 2009, 00:15

Emaster wrote:
wouter wrote:I suggest the following. "RTD - retired - is a term used when the referee stops a fight after a round has been completed. He may do so using his own or the doctor's judgement or when a fighter has indicated that he does not want to continue. RTDs are often recorded as TKOs and are included in a boxer's knockout total."
Let's use that definition if no one disagrees.

:confused: I would leave the 2nd "or" out of the sentence. :wink:
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby Blue » 24 Sep 2009, 00:55

Emaster wrote:
Blue wrote::roll: BTW, IMO this also goes for “Taking a knee”. :wink:
What do you mean by that? That a boxer is not allowed to take such a break and could be disqualified right away?
:confused: Where is the rule that says a fighter can take a break other than the 3 min. rest period between rounds? :o
There is a rule (Since 1838) however, that says a fighter may not go down purposely without being hit.
There is also a rule that says no contestant shall be allowed to "delay of the action".
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby wouter » 24 Sep 2009, 04:23

Blue wrote:
Emaster wrote:
wouter wrote:I suggest the following. "RTD - retired - is a term used when the referee stops a fight after a round has been completed. He may do so using his own or the doctor's judgement or when a fighter has indicated that he does not want to continue. RTDs are often recorded as TKOs and are included in a boxer's knockout total."
Let's use that definition if no one disagrees.

:confused: I would leave the 2nd "or" out of the sentence. :wink:


Why?
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby Blue » 25 Sep 2009, 14:37

AFAIC, It's too vague as written.
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby Emaster » 27 Dec 2009, 21:40

Having started a discussion on the main wiki's Referee technical decision page, I changed the article on Referee technical decision based on this thread's discussion, but it has been changed back for the lack of a reliable source. On asking for a source that says that RTD means Referee technical decision, this page was provided. It claims: "RTD = Referee technical decision, when a boxer or his corner refuse to continue a fight." Is there any counterevidence we could offer?
Last edited by Emaster on 11 Aug 2011, 13:21, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby Blue » 27 Dec 2009, 23:53

RTD = Retired is in Abbreviations and Definitions,
page 11 of the British Boxing Yearbook 1985
It is also in the Boxing News Annuals and Pugilato record books

A boxer or his corner cannot refuse to continue a fight; they can only request the
referee to stop the fight. (With good reason) otherwise it’s a disqualification loss.


ASSOCATION OF BOXING COMMISSIONS UNIFORM RULES OF BOXING
As Approved August 25, 2001, Amended August 2, 2002, Amended July 3, 2008
http://www.abcboxing.com/unified_boxing_rules.html
Rule #2. The referee is the sole arbiter of a bout and is the only individual authorized to stop a contest.
IMO, the boxer’s page (Miguel Cotto) quoted above is probably run by his publicist
and not an acceptable reference unless they can quote a bonafide source.
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Re: OPBF fight not RTD. Please change.

Postby John » 28 Dec 2009, 14:26

RTD was always short for retired, "Referee Technical Decision" is a phrase that someone who didn't know the real meaning has tried to shoehorn in to fit. "Referee Technical Decision" is quite simply meaningless :roll:
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RTD

Postby Emaster » 25 Feb 2010, 18:21

Emaster wrote:Having started a discussion on the main wiki's Referee technical decision page, I changed the article on Referee technical decision based on this thread's discussion, but it has been changed back for the lack of a reliable source. On asking for a source that says that RTD means Referee technical decision, this page was provided. It claims: "RTD = Referee technical decision, when a boxer or his corner refuse to continue a fight." Is there any counterevidence we could offer?
Blue wrote:RTD = Retired is in Abbreviations and Definitions,
page 11 of the British Boxing Yearbook 1985
It is also in the Boxing News Annuals and Pugilato record books

IMO, the boxer’s page (Miguel Cotto) quoted above is probably run by his publicist
and not an acceptable reference unless they can quote a bonafide source.
There hasn't been a reply in the main wiki since I mentioned the sources Blue provided. A sound online source which says that RTD means "Retired" would be helpful.

BTW: Other threads have been devoted to the RTD question as well:

- RTD???
- What is an RTD?
- Chris Byrd RTD Vitaly Klitchko? Explain please.
- What does RTD mean?
- WRONG TIMES ON RTD WOMAN FIGHT
- RTD = BS
- WHATS THE DEFINITION OF "RETIRED"?
- RTD - Tszyu

Some excerpts which explain the introduction of RTD:
AntonS wrote:[RTD] was introduced because decision differs from one regulating or title governing body to another.
Blue wrote:The main difference between RTD and a TKO is...

A TKO is fight action stopped by the referee while the clock was running.
A RTD is a fight stopped by the referee while the clock is stopped in between rounds.
There is no physical activity taking place.

Both are technically knock outs and are recorded in the stoppage column. The majority of the ABC Commissions record the stoppage between rounds as 3:00 of the ending round action and
Florida (0:00), Illinois (0:01), Indiana (0:00) and Texas (0:10) mark the time of stoppage differently in the following round.
Mexico, Nicaragua, Europe & Africa all do the ceremonial count out on the stool and mark it as 0:10 of the incoming round.
(Not sure about Asia.)
John wrote:There is really no argument here as a RTD is a type of TKO just as a TKO is a subset of KO (stoppage) or a MD is a subset of PTS.
I introduced RTD at the request of the British Boxing Board of Control as they wanted more accuracy in their reports than was already in place for the USA commissions.
So it also seemed a good idea (to me) to use it in the USA to reduce the confusion that arose from different commissions recording between round stoppages in different ways. We are not changing their official results, we are recording them with a degree more accuracy and introducing consistency.

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