any good books ?

[orbtastic]

I noticed he panned the Sibbo one.

[dalcumly]

He certainly did - and ripped into my only other attempt ,the one I did on Dave Charnley. I had to accept the criticism because if you write a book and sell it to the public then you have to realise that some people might not like it .
The criticism of the Sibson book floored me to be honest and I just felt like giving up all interest in the sport, but a few folk who had bought the book contacted me and said they strongly disagreed with the comments . They were probably just being nice ,though. I'd be interested in hearing from others who'd bought them to give me a balanced point of view.

The important thing was that I enjoyed writing both books and met some really decent people who had interesting stories to tell, and both Dave Charnley and Tony Sibson now have their careers on record.

I'm back in the saddle and the next one's in preparation. John Exshaw and his fellow critic at Boxing Monthly won't be getting a hold of this one !!!

[dalcumly]

The books were entirely self published. I have a local company who are very good at formatting the book and relaying the finished product to a printing firm.
I am not an author and have no previuos experience. I'm retired , have an interest in boxing , liked the boxers I wrote about , carried out extensive research and interviewed all those still living and willing to assist. As far as a formal editing process, I did what I could myself. I'm certain the books read well enough in terms of grammar and structure and they certainly look professional in terms of design.
The criticism was based on the belief that the REAL personality of Sibson was not fully exposed. I have to say that there were dozens of lengthy personal comments and opinions from Tony which I thought would have allowed the casual reader to draw conclusions. Unfortunately this particular reviewer didn't see it that way.
It is not for me to pass too much comment on what the critic in Boxing Monthly said ,because it would just sound like sour grapes ,but I strongly disagreed with his comments. The proof of course is on how many people buy the book !!!

[gasman]

I noticed he panned the Sibbo one.

Yeah, I saw that. I haven't read the book yet and it wouldn't put me off buying it.

There was a guy that used to do very critical reviews for Boxing News years ago (trying to recall his name, but I remember a back and forth in Boxing News whereby the author of the book that got panned wrote a couple of replies to the reviewer), I wouldnt put Exshaw in that class yet, he is a tough reviewer but he knows his onions.

[orbtastic]

aye, to be honest it only made me more curious about the book. I'd have got a copy already if it wasn't a matter of finding my cheque book (remember them?).

The thing about bios is that you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. I saw Damien Hughes was posting about his forthcoming Hagler one and while I'm trying not to criticise, as I really enjoyed his Hearns one, it suffers from lack of what I would call words from the protagonist. It talks about Hearns and his fights but you rarely get the feeling that he's actually said anything of note. I know that's part of the problem with writing about someone, you lose the "I". I understand both Damien and his dad have met Tommy a number of times but reading the book, that's the main thing that struck me. Same with the Duran one. You can cut the same author some slack for his Arguello one, as he's dead (!)

[dalcumly]

Thanks very much to Machoman for taking the time to consider his comments which were all valid .
I have tried with another book to get it published by proper publishing companies. They replied that 'although it was a good read ,it was not commercially viable' which means they don't think it'd make much of a profit.

As a very rough estimate the preparation for both books cost me around £7,000 each before a book was sold. So you can see there is no profit to anyone from publishing these type of biographies. To be frank they were a 'labour of love' - a joy to do , and I just hope that Dave's family and Tony's are glad that their relatives have something written about them for prosperity. Some people have asked why the books were never available on Amazon. Here's a clue - they take 60% of the cover price, will only take 3 books into stock at a time, and don't pay the postage.

What I learned from both boxers was that Dave Charnley was a complete and utter fitness fanatic ,modest to a fault, and a true gentleman.
Tony Sibson was as tough a man as I've ever met, but so very shy , I was surprised he could get himself into a ring in front of all his fans!! Also ,like Dave , modest to a fault. But could he eat !!!!!

Great times !!!

[lefty]

Thanks very much to Machoman for taking the time to consider his comments which were all valid .
I have tried with another book to get it published by proper publishing companies. They replied that 'although it was a good read ,it was not commercially viable' which means they don't think it'd make much of a profit.

As a very rough estimate the preparation for both books cost me around £7,000 each before a book was sold. So you can see there is no profit to anyone from publishing these type of biographies. To be frank they were a 'labour of love' - a joy to do , and I just hope that Dave's family and Tony's are glad that their relatives have something written about them for prosperity. Some people have asked why the books were never available on Amazon. Here's a clue - they take 60% of the cover price, will only take 3 books into stock at a time, and don't pay the postage.

What I learned from both boxers was that Dave Charnley was a complete and utter fitness fanatic ,modest to a fault, and a true gentleman.
Tony Sibson was as tough a man as I've ever met, but so very shy , I was surprised he could get himself into a ring in front of all his fans!! Also ,like Dave , modest to a fault. But could he eat !!!!!

Great times !!!

7k per book?! Bloody hell, you must have money to burn.

[matko]

"Hard Luck" Jerry Quarry
Gr8 read only person to have boxed Frazier (1st bout fight of the year) + Ali twice
Hard as nails fought and KO'd Earnie Shavers when he was a Don King up coming fearsome avoided opponent
Love reading about the old timers, supposedly his and mike quarry spars were unbearable to watch
Nice foreword by George foreman too

[Damian]

aye, to be honest it only made me more curious about the book. I'd have got a copy already if it wasn't a matter of finding my cheque book (remember them?).

The thing about bios is that you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. I saw Damien Hughes was posting about his forthcoming Hagler one and while I'm trying not to criticise, as I really enjoyed his Hearns one, it suffers from lack of what I would call words from the protagonist. It talks about Hearns and his fights but you rarely get the feeling that he's actually said anything of note. I know that's part of the problem with writing about someone, you lose the "I". I understand both Damien and his dad have met Tommy a number of times but reading the book, that's the main thing that struck me. Same with the Duran one. You can cut the same author some slack for his Arguello one, as he's dead (!)

Hello

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your thoughts on the Hearns book. I understand your thoughts about the lack of words from the fighter himself but thought you may appreciate some more context about why this was the case.

We did meet Hearns but only after he had cancelled 16 different meetings with our initial contact in Detroit. Secondly, he underestimated the money that is to be made in books and lost enthusiasm to contribute when he understood the miniscule money he would get. Finally, he wanted to gloss over certain parts of his story (such as his brother shooting a woman before one of his fights), which is understandable but doesn't do justice to the reader. We decided to go ahead with the book without Hearns's input as he has no plans to write his own. We did make it clear that the book was a biography and not an autobiography.

The Hagler book, which is due out on 1 October (plug,plug ) follows a similar pattern. Hagler does not have plans to write his own and although he didn't want to contribute (in case he ever does change his mind), he seemed flattered that a book was to be done as unbelievably, there has never been one. The people in his inner circle - Goody and Pat Petronelli for instance - were keen to contribute and help tell his story.

I hope that this offers some clarification about the process.

Incidentally, I thoroughly enjoyed the Sibson book and found it a really enjoyable read.

[orbtastic]

That makes sense, cheers. I'll be buying the Hagler one anyway.

[loaded_gloves]

It baffles me that Marvin Hagler has no plans for a nice big hefty hardback of his story told his way.

Those fat George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali/Hauser, Duran/Guidice autobiographies/endorsed biographies etc are like monuments to their great careers.

I always thought a Hagler book would come out eventually, and surely be a seller.

This is not marvelous news at all.

[mickey1975]

It baffles me that Marvin Hagler has no plans for a nice big hefty hardback of his story told his way.

Those fat George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali/Hauser, Duran/Guidice autobiographies/endorsed biographies etc are like monuments to their great careers.

I always thought a Hagler book would come out eventually, and surely be a seller.

This is not marvelous news at all.

Duran had nothing to do with that book. Yet another thing you are factually incorrect on.

[Clint Magnum]

Danny, please can we have a regular book review slot in Boxing News?

That would be greatly appreciated...

Best boxing books I've read in the last couple of years.

1. The Arc of boxing - The Rise and fall of the sweet science by Mike Silver
2. Last year's Sugar Ray Leonard autobiography.
3. The years of the Locust by John Hotten
4. Johhny Nelson autobiography - Hard road to Glory
5. Teddy Atlas autobiography

1. The bible
2. Candid, honest and quite an eye opener into the previously unknown man behind the myths.
3. Soon to be made into a movie by Paddy Consadine, a fascinating story of HW Doc Anderson.
4. Frank, honest and very humble account. (Loved chapter where he lost his title challenge in Shefffield and got abuse so Brendan had an open day where he let any hardman go 3 rounds with Johnny to prove how good he still was, unbeknownst to Johnny!)
5. Candid insight into Cus D'Amato & Tyson.

[loaded_gloves]

It baffles me that Marvin Hagler has no plans for a nice big hefty hardback of his story told his way.

Those fat George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali/Hauser, Duran/Guidice autobiographies/endorsed biographies etc are like monuments to their great careers.

I always thought a Hagler book would come out eventually, and surely be a seller.

This is not marvelous news at all.

Duran had nothing to do with that book. Yet another thing you are factually incorrect on.

Whaaa? What was that little dig for? Have I wronged you in a former life, brother?

Duran did participate in the Guidice book as far as I remember. Whatever, I haven't read it since it came out but recall it being an engrossing, high quality read.

[mickey1975]

It baffles me that Marvin Hagler has no plans for a nice big hefty hardback of his story told his way.

Those fat George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Larry Holmes, Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali/Hauser, Duran/Guidice autobiographies/endorsed biographies etc are like monuments to their great careers.

I always thought a Hagler book would come out eventually, and surely be a seller.

This is not marvelous news at all.

Duran had nothing to do with that book. Yet another thing you are factually incorrect on.

Whaaa? What was that little dig for? Have I wronged you in a former life, brother?

Duran did participate in the Guidice book as far as I remember. Whatever, I haven't read it since it came out but recall it being an engrossing, high quality read.

Well when I met Roberto he was refusing to sign the book. He was offended by it. Tim Witherspoon will back me up...

[loaded_gloves]

Well I personally wouldn't argue with the 'Spoon, one of my all-time faves, but . . . come on.

Guidice provides a very fair and even-handed account of the Duran fights and legends. Duran himself participates. But just because in the end product Guidice refused to toe the party line and instead provided a well-rounded account of the Duran tale without taking sides - rather than write an embarrassing propaganda piece - that somehow diminishes a fine book? Just because he took a stance of journalistic integrity rather than appease Camp Duran that somehow lessens his work? Is this your argument? Are you actually that infantile, Mickey? That sycophantic? Wow, how embarrassing for a grown man not genuinely attached to Duran. The classic groupie. Please let me bask in your reflected glory, Manos de Piedre.

Guidice acknowledges in the book how impossible it is to get a clear idea of what happened with many events because of all the divergent accounts and sheer volume of parasites (that word mine) affixing themselves to Roberto. Essentially Guidice decided to write an honest book rather than create more Duran propaganda and as such the great man backed out and refused to approve it. So what? That only reflects badly on Roberto, not the writer or the book Robero himself is quoted in.

Hands of Stone = a great book. You = the classic voiceless non-entity sycophant.

[mickey1975]

I thought it was a good book too, just stating a fact that it was unauthorised. Dickhead.

[Damian]

You can read the opening chapter of the Hagler biography for free, here:
http://www.pitchpublishing.co.uk/sites/ ... index.html