If There Was No 'Smokin Joe Frazier'

[drunkenpiper36]

I wouldn't pick Buster Mathis to outpoint Jimmy Ellis. Mathis was very limited and Ellis had the boxing skill to take him on the cards. My guess is that in the absence or non-existence of Joe Frazier, Ellis reigns until Muhammad Ali beats him in 1971.

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I also believe that Ellis would take Mathis too.

To be fair, it would be a close fight either way, but I'd lean towards Ellis.

Ali would have thought it was Christmas returning from exile to face Ellis for his old title, in a fight he'd have no trouble in.

If Joe hadn't have been born, George Foreman would never have been heavyweight champion, that's unless, Norton takes the title off Ali in '73 & opts for a first defence against the powerful prospect that was Big George. :surprised:

[BoxBuzz]

Now you've gone and done it.

This is the most Hateful anti Ali thread of all time.

Without Joe Frazier.....Ali is just another HW champion in a long succession of same. Without his defining loss, and follow up wins, he may not have had a heads up on how to handle Foreman, and his whole legacy is compromised.


You have entered into the record some vile hateful spiteful venomous blatherings in your time.

But this......well... this is simply uncivilized.

[DaveyMac]

Did anyone notice the other night when Tor Hamer quit against Andy Ruiz that Max Kellerman compared Andy Ruiz to Buster Mathis, because they were both fat, and then said something to the effect that Ruiz was the much better boxer! I couldn't believe my ears. Please Max call me when Andy Ruiz is a top 5 ranked HW and then we can talk.

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Muhammad Ali

Without 'Smokin Joe Frazier', Muhammad Ali is meaningless...........

Muhammad Ali will of course return in October 1970, but he will travel a different 'Avenue' to
get to the Title.
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1970

October 1970........... TKO 8............... Jose Manuel Urtain
December 1970........ W Dec 12.......... Oscar Bonavena
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1971......

February 1971.......... W Dec 12......... George Chuvalo
March 1971.............. TKO 8.............. Danny McAlinden
May 1971................. W Dec 10......... Henry Cooper
July 1971................. W Dec 10......... Guissepe 'Bepi' Ros
September 1971........ TKO 7............. Floyd Patterson

What is Joe Frazier without Muhammad Ali?

[Syntax Error]

Now you've gone and done it.

This is the most Hateful anti Ali thread of all time.

Without Joe Frazier.....Ali is just another HW champion in a long succession of same. Without his defining loss, and follow up wins, he may not have had a heads up on how to handle Foreman, and his whole legacy is compromised.


You have entered into the record some vile hateful spiteful venomous blatherings in your time.

But this......well... this is simply uncivilized.

The irony of this thread is that it works both ways if you want to be fair.

As great as Smokin' Joe was, where would he rank if Muhammad Ali had never existed; what would be fight fan's opinions of Smokin' Joe's HW championship reign?

It can get quite messy when you go down this road & if you do, you must be fair to both men by doing it for both of their careers.

Both men were great HW champions whose careers are each defined by each other.

It's very churlish to denigrate one hypothetically.

I'm a guy that happened to like BOTH of them, which must make me a rare breed, because it almost feels that if you like one, must not like the other.

It's privilege for us fight fans that we had the two of them & seeing how Joe suffered his later years & how Muhammad Ali has suffered for the last 30 years due to the fight game, threads like this do them both a disservice.