Who is the Lineal Heavyweight Champ?

Tomasino · Post by **Tomasino** » 04 Jul 2017, 07:16

I see lots of differing opinions on this so it's time for a poll. Please vote!

nobleart1978 · Post by **nobleart1978** » 04 Jul 2017, 07:27

Fury was but he is'nt now.

In my book the only way to fill the vacancy at the moment is the winner of Joshua and Wilder. #1 v #2 at heavyweight.

Mimmy · Post by **Mimmy** » 04 Jul 2017, 07:56

Fury was the champ, but vacated the titles which have become fragmented. I dont get all this Lineal stuff as the titles in history have been broken up at some point or the other. Riddock Bowe trashed the WBC belt may years ago as im sure many others have done. So you cant sort of go back in history to say a perticular champ won it from the man who beat the man who beat the man.

In my opinion If you win it you are the best, lose it you are not the best. But when I say 'best' I dont really mean best in your trade. If you win that belt you are the best until someone takes it from you. At the moment there are many 'best' (makes no fvcking sense at all this) but these ar eonlt best because there are that many titles on offer.

Remove all the titles to leave one then the best becomes harder to get to. So in effect there is only one best and those fighters such as AJ would never have got their shot before time.

Presently the 'best' is Anthony Joshua.

If you can make sense of all that you are better than me

Covfefe · Post by **Covfefe** » 04 Jul 2017, 07:58

No one.

The idea of creating a new title when Joshua fought Wlad is laughable. Joshua was just a contender about as proven as the rest of them and he fought a fighter coming off a loss. Someone needs to clean up again now.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 04 Jul 2017, 08:03

Marciano.

dirk2686 · Post by **dirk2686** » 04 Jul 2017, 09:35

It's all to do with timescales. Most people probably didn't have any issue with Fury being lineal champion - but how long can he be out for and still hold that claim? What if he never fights again?

Covfefe · Post by **Covfefe** » 04 Jul 2017, 09:39

dirk2686 wrote:It's all to do with timescales. Most people probably didn't have any issue with Fury being lineal champion - but how long can he be out for and still hold that claim? What if he never fights again?

What do you mean didn't have a problem with him being the lineal champion?

Nightmare Roy · Post by **Nightmare Roy** » 04 Jul 2017, 09:45

I went for AJ, Fury was but it's been years now so you have to move on. AJ KO'd the most dominant HW of the last ten years.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 04 Jul 2017, 09:46

The whole lineal thing is beyond outdated, but Joshua would be the answer.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 04 Jul 2017, 09:51

Tyson Fury.

Tuan_Jim · Post by **Tuan_Jim** » 04 Jul 2017, 09:58

stujones wrote:Marciano.

No, Tunney.

Tuan_Jim · Post by **Tuan_Jim** » 04 Jul 2017, 10:00

Ali was retired 2 years before Holmes beat his ghost for the lineal. Jeffries 5 before Johnson.

They tried to sell Vitali/Sanders as lineal but it just didn't take.

AJ needs to coax the Travelling One into the ring.

dirk2686 · Post by **dirk2686** » 04 Jul 2017, 10:08

Covfefe wrote:
dirk2686 wrote:It's all to do with timescales. Most people probably didn't have any issue with Fury being lineal champion - but how long can he be out for and still hold that claim? What if he never fights again?
What do you mean didn't have a problem with him being the lineal champion?

As in didn't have a problem with him being lineal after he beat Wlad.

Tarkus · Post by **Tarkus** » 04 Jul 2017, 10:26

Technically its Joshua as Fury did not defend it against Klitschko and vacant title was contested between WK and AJ, which was won by Joshua.

Covfefe · Post by **Covfefe** » 04 Jul 2017, 10:33

Tarkus wrote:Technically its Joshua as Fury did not defend it against Klitschko and vacant title was contested between WK and AJ, which was won by Joshua.

Tyson Fury did not lose the title. Let's say it's vacant then you can start a new lineage when the best two in the division fight and no one else has a claim, was that criteria met when Joshua fought Klitschko? No, he needs to clear out the division or fight Tyson Fury.

dirk2686 · Post by **dirk2686** » 04 Jul 2017, 10:58

Covfefe wrote:
Tarkus wrote:Technically its Joshua as Fury did not defend it against Klitschko and vacant title was contested between WK and AJ, which was won by Joshua.
Tyson Fury did not lose the title. Let's say it's vacant then you can start a new lineage when the best two in the division fight and no one else has a claim, was that criteria met when Joshua fought Klitschko? No, he needs to clear out the division or fight Tyson Fury.

If something happened to Fury whereby we knew he was never fighting again, what happens to the lineal championship? Does it vanish?

Covfefe · Post by **Covfefe** » 04 Jul 2017, 11:01

dirk2686 wrote:
Covfefe wrote:
Tarkus wrote:Technically its Joshua as Fury did not defend it against Klitschko and vacant title was contested between WK and AJ, which was won by Joshua.
Tyson Fury did not lose the title. Let's say it's vacant then you can start a new lineage when the best two in the division fight and no one else has a claim, was that criteria met when Joshua fought Klitschko? No, he needs to clear out the division or fight Tyson Fury.
If something happened to Fury whereby we knew he was never fighting again, what happens to the lineal championship? Does it vanish?

Yes until a new lineage can start. Like it did when Lennox Lewis retired.

SamWise72 · Post by **SamWise72** » 04 Jul 2017, 11:45

It's not outdated at all. When you have someone who has unified the titles (Tyson was the last), then the title goes on from them. Fury is the nearest thing we have at the moment, Wlad had most of the titles. If he comes back, he's still the man at heavyweight.

Tarkus · Post by **Tarkus** » 04 Jul 2017, 12:24

Covfefe wrote:
Tarkus wrote:Technically its Joshua as Fury did not defend it against Klitschko and vacant title was contested between WK and AJ, which was won by Joshua.
Tyson Fury did not lose the title. Let's say it's vacant then you can start a new lineage when the best two in the division fight and no one else has a claim, was that criteria met when Joshua fought Klitschko? No, he needs to clear out the division or fight Tyson Fury.

Fury did loose it by failing to defend it against the mandatory opponent, Klitschko.

SteveO · Post by **SteveO** » 04 Jul 2017, 12:38

Tarkus wrote:Fury did loose it by failing to defend it against the mandatory opponent, Klitschko.

No he didn't.
Fury could not defend the title against anyone at the moment because his boxing licence is suspended pending the (much delayed) outcome of the VADA investigation.
Several past heavyweight champions did not defend the lineal title for periods longer than Fury has been inactive.

dirk2686 · Post by **dirk2686** » 04 Jul 2017, 12:57

It's a question of timescales though. Most accept if Fury comes back he's the man, as he never lost in the ring, but how long do you give him? If you make it someone active then it has to be Joshua as he's beaten Wlad.

For what it's worth I genuinely don't believe a word of Tyson's mental illness story and as such don't buy his excuses for not fighting beyond a drug test fail, which tends to make me view his time off as something within his control and therefore negatively towards his claims of being number one at the weight. For those who believe him I suppose this is viewed more as an injury layoff.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 04 Jul 2017, 13:18

If Fury isn't the champion then there is no champion.

Joshua is No. 1, but he's not done enough to claim the vacant title.

Joshua beating Wilder, Povetkin or W. Klitschko II might be enough for him to claim the interim Lineal title.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 04 Jul 2017, 13:30

SamWise72 wrote:It's not outdated at all. When you have someone who has unified the titles (Tyson was the last), then the title goes on from them. Fury is the nearest thing we have at the moment, Wlad had most of the titles. If he comes back, he's still the man at heavyweight.

The 4 recognized belts have been on the line in 3 fights. It's all just a matter of opinion these days, you couldn't trade the lineal title for a bag of chips.

pablothunder · Post by **pablothunder** » 04 Jul 2017, 13:30

Fury. He beat Wlad,
Wlad subsequently lost to a top contender.

Covfefe · Post by **Covfefe** » 04 Jul 2017, 13:34

Tarkus wrote:
Covfefe wrote:
Tarkus wrote:Technically its Joshua as Fury did not defend it against Klitschko and vacant title was contested between WK and AJ, which was won by Joshua.
Tyson Fury did not lose the title. Let's say it's vacant then you can start a new lineage when the best two in the division fight and no one else has a claim, was that criteria met when Joshua fought Klitschko? No, he needs to clear out the division or fight Tyson Fury.
Fury did loose it by failing to defend it against the mandatory opponent, Klitschko.

There is no such thing as a mandatory opponent in this sense.