Ali's apex was the Cleveland William's fight. No one can beat that Ali. The most popular wet dream of the Ali fans, as if Williams was somehow close to a great fighter. It is more to do with the supreme mastery of the ring Ali showed against a good opponent. He lost his absolute peak to exile so we...

Ali's apex was the Cleveland William's fight. No one can beat that Ali.

On the issue, Buster on his best night would be a good fight for anyone.

I just read this in Sugar Ray Robinson's 1970 autobiography SUGAR RAY. Concerning his first two fights with Jake LaMotta first fight was in October 1942 ,Robinson's 36th pro fight (27 by KO) (in which LaMotta had 10 pounds on him) Sugar Ray Robinson was hitting LaMotta with so many punches his arms...

Being champ has to mean something. I'm going for Oliver.

By near consensus of the boxing intelligentsia and peer review, SRR is the greatest ever.
What footage is available showcases his enormous talent across all skill areas.

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Jan 2023, 04:01 Bowe was a one of the greatest talents ever and winning the Holyfield trilogy alone gives him a high all-time ranking.

+1.

He rates highly in h2h discussions.

That's quite young. Sad news.

Liston vs Cleveland Williams 1.

Sonny was an absolute beast at his best. If not for Ali, he'd have been champ for a decade.

I have been watching prime Liston (Williams 1 to Patterson 2- not all the fights in that time (yet) ). I am starting to feel he beats everyone not called Muhammad Ali prime for prime.

I think it was Al Bernstein who said that if Boxing was like Baseball, and there was a World Series of Boxing, there are plenty of guys who would hand Ali a good challenge. Prime for prime, many of the fighters named in this thread would've given Ali a hard night or even won a bout or two in the se...

Ruiz is the better boxer BUT Wilder is the superior athlete.

Ruiz on points or Wilder by stoppage. My heart says Wilder in 7-8 rounds.

Good old fashioned HW scrap.

Stiverne was solid at his best. Declined precipitously.

These days I favour Errol by stoppage.

The Q has to be in a trilogy of fights (prime v prime), who may realistically win 1 fight vs Ali. Frazier has the W so obviously him. It wasn't prime Ali but still very good. He is a stylistic issue for Ali. I don't think Norton would have a W vs prime Ali. Tyson is stylistically perfect but he's to...

Wlad would win a fight but Floyd is the greater fighter. Especially wrt historical legacy.

(Then) youngest champ, first 2* champ. He has some grand wins and was a tangible social force.

He's also a far more interesting character.

I considered Lewis and Bowe. Both great fighters but I see issues. Lennox may not be able to survive a clean power punch by Foreman. He'd have to be perfect against a man with huge power, a good jab and a serious chin. Bowe has a better chance I feel. He has superb skills (at did LL) and heart but B...

This would be pure cruelty.

I pose a different Q: who would beat a prime Foreman?

I'd back Prime Ali, prime Liston, maybe Holmes.
Not many others and none immediately spring to mind.

Overall I favour Lewis.
Pre-Steward, FOTC Frazier may win. Lennox got much better later.

Strongly favour Tyson. Better chin, equal (or better) power, fast starter (vs slow starter JL).

Louis is the greater fighter but Tyson is a terrible match-up for him.

Tyson KO r1-r3.

Got to favour Fury. Either a wide UD or a stoppage in the mid-rounds. Too big, too gifted.

Floyd is criminally underrated. He was a top HW. He beats RJJ.

Tyson would obliterate him. R1, max R2.

I know Tyson is not in fashion right now but this is crazy.

Yeah. Ali was never again as good as he was in his prime, but he had got rid of more of the ring rust by 1972. His stamina was better and he would be giving Frazier so many rounds like he did in the first fight. The match that ruined Ali was Superfight III, which took place in 1975. Muhammad was ne...

A long night behind that pole like jab. Lewis UD.

Hamed is one of those boxing superstars I never quite understood why people thought he was so great unless the British are simply all about the flash and the presentation. :maybe: Usually when it comes to these kind of questions I'm always reminded of white hopes or hype jobs who were build up as t...