BACK TO THE ORIGINAL ARGUMENT: George beats any croucher that doesn't have a defensive gameplan that can block head and body punching(unless they had the techinique for getting big enough counterpunches in consistently). We know that that fighter has to be more powerful--at the very least--than Fraz...

Young was a matchup problem for Foreman, because he was a counterpuncher that proved he could hurt George. Lyle could do the same even more effectively. It's not proven, but I think Louis would do the same(best counterpuncher of all time that didn't lose to wild fighters). Many fighters have matchup...

To SaadOfftheDeck: What about all the punches Holmes took in his career? Furthermore, George was a power punching machine that could cut the ring off, so you'd better be able to defend head and body together until he got tired. Dancing--unless you were as good as the prime Ali--wasn't good enough. Y...

To Saadoffthedeck: He did struggle a little with Cooney until Gerry started with the low blows. Then, it was out of reach. Holmes got the better of it, but--in the rounds towards the middle of the fight--Holmes was taking good shots and Cooney was winning rounds. It wasn't a Holmes VS Frank by no me...

To Kalan:

Cerdan and LaMotta were smart sluggers. It's a pound for pound discussion. As in if Cerdan and LaMotta were heavyweights or George was middleweight, etc. And, yes, Cerdan had the brains, toughness, and rope-a-dope to beat George. Add in, Cerdan had a punch that carried into the late rounds.

Comment 2: I don't think any boxer with a punch beats George. As a rebuttal to that, I think any boxer that had very good defense upstairs and downstairs would beat George, because they'd outbox him. I don't think Larry Holmes beats him, because Holmes would be hit to the head or body often and Holm...

You guys missed what Cerdan actually did that would be problematic for Foreman in a lb4lb bout between the 2: Cerdan was using the rope-a-dope decades before Ali coined the invention of it. I watched highlights of a fight where Cerdan rope-a-doped a fighter and then KO'ed him! I don't think Cerdan i...

George deserves to be highly rated: 76 - 5 and not dodging anybody. Who did he lose to? Ali(everyone Ali had fought up until then he had beaten--whether through fight or rematch; not to mention, he was the greatest fighter of all time) and Young(counterpunchers and boxers are similiar, except counte...

I. Marciano VS Frazier. Who wins? Marciano should have the punch to finish Frazier, but would Rocky's chin hold up long enough to end it against Joe's onslaught? Esp. considering that Rocky rarely stopped anyone early(OR PUT THEM DOWN FOR THAT MATTER) and Joe's chin would make that feat even harder....

Prime for prime: Leonard had already fought and beat Hearns who was more than a great sparing partner for Robinson but he was 90% as good. Offensively, he was almost a clone. Hearns was more accurate while Robinson was a better counterpuncher. I think Hearns was faster with his typical offense. Hear...

Ali wins 10 - 5 in a 15 rder and at least 8 - 4 in a 12 rder. The problem for Holmes is that he comes straight in when you have to find a way to neutralize what Ali does or he's gonna whoop ya! The model is Frazier both stylistically and genetically. Frazier lacks only upper echelon power to ensure ...

The differences in this matchup that matter: 1. Ali is the fastest in all of history when in his prime and a was multipunch combination puncher(maybe 10 punches). VS Holmes was probably 2nd amongst the heavyweights in speed, but far slower than a prime Ali. Also, Holmes was a 1-2-3 punch and not a m...

Sugar Ray Robinson has a lot of characteristics like Tommy Hearns(very fast power punching from a boxer's stance) who Leonard walked through his punches and beat. SRR's movement was more primitive--good fighters tracked him down by midfight. SRR takes a far better punch than Hearns and occassionally...

I never saw the fight between the two, but heard that it was a fight that most thought Young won what actually happened in the fight; however, I also heard that Young dove outside of the ring ropes to keep from getting hit 3+ times as a tactic to avoid getting hit! Could the judges have felt like di...

Ali struggled against 2 styles even when he was serious(allbeit post prime): 1. Norton's style: Ken ducked to compensate for Ali's speed advantage, then he could jab Ali from a crouch and--when they got in tight and Ali tried to rest--he was a very accurate inside power puncher to the head or body. ...

The first fight looks a lot like Ali VS Williams(an offensive show and a KO/TKO) or Cooper(Louis was cuttable and/or had eyes that were very closable). Now, in the second fight, Louis would be as dangerous as a mismatched fighter can be. Ali should be very careful not to make any mistakes, because L...

Thanks for your replies. I will say this: I think this fight was like the Frazier vs Bonavena fight; where Frazier went down but still won the fight. Ali went down in this one; yet, to me--and I know it is unpopular to think so--I think Ali won the 8 rounds that he needed to to win. Especially, when...

The problem with Floyd is that he "HANDPICKS" his opponents(though--good or very good). There's a style that Floyd just can't deal with; it's a fighter that is a combination puncher, speedy, accurate, and powerful(this is a bonus). If you watch the Mosley fight(Mosley gave up after about r...

Did they just give it to Frazier, because he was the first fighter to both give Ali a beating and a knockdown in a highly profiled battle of champions? When you count up the rounds, how do you have it? Rounds 1 & 2 for Ali 3 slightly for Ali: I can see how it could be EVEN, because Frazier hurt ...

It sounded that way to me from the end scores, too, but the commentators were scoring this round or that(sportswriters very educated about what was going on) as two point rounds; listen to the commentators in each of the last two fights(the actual broadcasts). Either way, Norton still loses the last...

Summary of First fight: Ali was hurt early and only gave flashes after that(rds. 3 and 11 for sure after round 2). Other than that, there were a lot of rounds that could and should go to Norton on activity and Ali's lack of it; plus, round 12 consummated the fight for Norton. Norton wins. Summary of...

No way. Ali won the 2nd and 3rd fights. I thought like many of you until I watched what actually happened again. Part of that is because Ken Norton was Ali's toughest opponent(by far) and he did some really great things in both of these fights. In the 1st fight, Ali definitely won rounds 1, 3, 11, a...