BoxRec

Didn't anyone get the impression we were watching a public beheading
during the Daniel Reyes/Edgar Cardenas title fight on Sat night?

It was surreal - you had an absolute war for the 1st 4 rounds that the american commentators ( worst I've ever heard ) barely seemed to notice

Then when Cardenas finaly wilted after taking too many brutal shots, the fu**ing incompetent referee Jack Reiss lets it go on for another 4 mins.

Unbelieavable

I haven't read anything about it but surely Reiss has to be banned for life?
Had a big smile on his face after too.
He's a danger to any boxers he's meant to be looking out for.

And the doctor was a fu**ing disgrace too.

Yes it was an absolute disgrace. Didn't Reyes in one round land something like 100 power shots?

Jim Watt made a great point about certain referees enjoying the action so much they forget that they're there to protect the boxers health. And also about the way Reiss dramatically jumped in to stop the fight - as though he'd timed it to perfection.

It was truly horrible. Yes we all love a good fight but there's no way any fighter should have to endure that kind of punishment. Reyes was clearly a banger and Cardenas could be ruined now, not just inside the ring. His corner should be ashamed also.

Kilburn wrote:Reyes was clearly a banger and Cardenas could be ruined now, not just inside the ring. His corner should be ashamed also.

I agree very much with your final point. Any critisism on the ref for not stopping the fight should be pointed at the corner, perhaps more so.

If the ref is not stopping the fight, the corner always can. Protecting their fighter is their most important job. I think his corner let him down more than the ref.

Maybe Priff but then again how easy can it be to pull your fighter out after spending weeks preparing him for his first title defence? Cardenas has probably earnt next to nothing so far in his career, it can't be easy to surrender an IBF belt like that. Also it was clear that Cardenas was an exceptionally tough man to absorb all those shots flush like he did. Maybe in their heart of hearts they thought he could come through the storm.

The referee on the other hand does not have that kind of close relationship with the fighter (Micky & Ricky aside of course). He should be stopping the fight long before the corner start climbing the steps with towel in hand IMO. Certainly in a fight like that anyway.

Yes I agree 100% with both of you about the corner, but sadly there's not much you can do about such "brave" cornerwork, other than recognise them for the cold-blooded bastards they are.

At least the referee can be banned for life ( it was that bad I think) for clearly failing to protect the fighter - I mean this guy has probably had years of training ( amazing as it sounds ) in when to stop a fight: A top level IBF ref apparently...
He's there to protect fighters who are too brave for their own good.

The sport has enough troubles without a loose cannon like that referee allowed to work again. The guy looked very pleased with his performance after, obviously a certified maniac.

Kilburn wrote:Maybe Priff but then again how easy can it be to pull your fighter out after spending weeks preparing him for his first title defence?

It can't be that easy to watch him taking a beating either, but I guess it all hinges on whether they truly believed he could turn things around.
I rate Rob McCracken for his intervention at the weekend.
I criticised McCullogh's corner for not pulling him out in the Harrison fight.
This is an very subjective area, but I often wish corners would make these decisions more.

Kilburn wrote:The referee on the other hand does not have that kind of close relationship with the fighter (Micky & Ricky aside of course).

Didn't see this fight, fortunately. I hate it when boxing crosses the line from sport to sheer brutality. Larry O'Connell says the moment to stop a fight is when a fighter has stopped thinking in there...

Agreed, i didn't catch the fight either myself but as soon as i hear criticism of the referee not stopping a fight (which is entirely justified i agree) i always wonder why the corner hasn't seen the problem and done the refs job for him. The ref needed to stop the Carbajal-Espinosa fight and let it go on way too long but i have not as yet seen the Reyes match.

I saw the fight, and yes it was the worsed piece of refereeing I have ever seen, and also Morales Snr training licence should also be discarded.

The guy got beaten up for a round and a half. At the end of the 5th (in the corner) the reigning champion stated that he thought it was the ninth round! and also that he couldn't see.

For Morales Snr to say he's okay was wrong.

For the Ref/Doctor to agree with Morales' point of view and not the obvious judgmenet (listen to what the fighter was saying for fcuk sake!) was also scandalous.

Then when the brave Cardenas finally went down in the 6th I thought "thank god its over", but no! The ref allowed the guy to take more punishment. Did he bet on a Cardenas win or something?

How can a fighter staggering like he was doing, when the ref was checking him over, be allowed to continue is beyond belief.

It was even worse than Duran vs Davey Moore and his coach acted as irresponsibly as the corner of the late Felix Bwalya during his tragic fight with Paul Burke some 6 years ago.

On a side issue, I have to disagree with one of the posters views on the commentators. I actually thought Raul Marquez came across as an intelligent man, with some good view. Its odd, but I wouldn't have guessed it if you've seen him fight.

I would have liked to have seen the begining of the show and heard his views on DLH vs Moseley. I'm sure, given the unsatisfactory way his fight with Moseley ended, he would be a very interesting spectator concerning the whole situation. I'm sure he feels that he deserves first shot at Moseley.

While I want Moseley to have more meaningful fights first of all,starting with De La Hoya (who's not retiring). However, I wouldn't mind seeing Moseley clear up the unfinished business with Marquez.

Agreed Stu, i also enjoyed listening to Raul Marquez he offered good insight and he and his colleague made a nice change from Lampley, Foreman, Merchant who can be a bit much all of the time. Marquez was intelligent and also translated for viewers in the Spanish speaking corners, let's have more of Raul!

Unfortunately it would seem no fuss was made and Jack Reiss will still be left to handle some of most dangerous fighting men on the planet.

I saw that fight with the flyweight you are on about, I forget his name now, but my god,it was scandalous....is this the one you're on about, this never got published

Why boxing is a bloodsport – Reyes v Cardenas.

I just received a tape the other day, with the Reyes v Cardenas minimumweight title fight on the undercard of the Eric Morales V Guty Espadas bill.

I know this is well after the event, but nevertheless I felt compelled to make a comment here on the horrific beating taken by Cardenas, which was as a direct result of the utter ineptitude of the referee, the cavalier disregard of the fighter's own corner, and the weakness and indecision of the ringside doctor

This referee should stick to refereeing cockfights, as he showed a flagrant disregard for the fighter under his care.

As early as the 4th, Cardenas was walking around in a punch-induced trance, eating shot after shot as Reyes worked him over like a heavy bag, how Cardenas didn’t go down is beyond me. Between the rounds, the ringside doctor intervened and demanded a time out to examine Cardenas who had already taken a fearful beating.

What transpired next was nothing short of scandalous. When the doctor asked him if he was Ok, Cardenas replied that he could not see, the doctor instructed the referee to call the fight off, the referee waved it on regardless, at the bidding of Cardenas' own cornermen!

Amazingly, in the 5th, Cardenas was allowed to continue taking a beating, although amazingly he still didn’t go down, the referee watched, totally mute as he was battered around the ring.

In the 6th, Cardenas was finally dropped, as he sank stiff legged to the canvas under another onslaught along the ropes, incredibly, the referee allowed him to rise groggily at 5, and instructed him to walk forward. Cardenas clearly rubber legged, should certainly have been halted right then and there. However, Reiss, who probably is a big fan of bare-knuckle boxing judging by his disregard for his duties, staggeringly waved the action on.

Cardenas absorbed another terrific barrage of blows along the ropes, which was allowed to continue for what seemed like an age, before having the temerity to leap in there like he was saving a child from the path of a truck. What an ass!

I must confess to knowing little about referee Jack Reiss, but this man should never be allowed to referee another fight of any kind. Cardenas is probably ruined as a fighter after the unbelievable one-sided beating he took, and had this been a higher weight title fight between two better known fighters, there would be public outrage over this.

I fail to understand why Cardenas’ own corner, the ringside doctor, or the referee didn’t show Cardenas the compassion any fighter deserves. He stopped fighting back from the 4th round when he was first nailed and wobbled by an uppercut, and was allowed to take sickening punishment for almost 2 solid rounds.
Thought I would post this here as it's more relevant.

I originally wrote the article below for maxboxing, but for some reason they weren't interested, I thought it was the most dangerous piece of refereeing i had ever seen. Even when Cardenas couldn't walk forward, the ref just waved the bout on, incredible! At least Jim Watt tore him off a strip.



'Blood Sport' - Reyes v Cardenas

This is precisely the kind of blood-sport type occurrence which has sensible liberals the world over calling for the banning of boxing, which they see as the anthropological version of bullfights and cockfighting, and who can blame them, I’m a fan of the sport, and I was disgusted by what I saw.

The only thing that I can think of which might explain this piss-poor officiating, is that all concerned were misguided by an urge to allow the champion a chance to recover. However, surely a whole round and a half of being beaten on solidly without firing anything back is enough to confirm that the fighter is totally incapable of continuing.

There should be an investigation into this potentially tragic beating sustained by Cardenas, and the reasons behind it as soon as possible.

We all agree it was shockingly handled.

There is no criminal offence of attempted manslaughter.

I think a campaign should be started to get rid of that referee though, it disgusts me to think of him being allowed to referee another fight.....#

Anyone know which state commision granted him his licence?

I gather he's part of the California State Athletic Commission.

California,
Let them know how U feel.
http://www.dca.ca.gov.csac/

Jack Reiss is also captain for the Los Angeles Fire Department.

Just the kind of guy you want to have in charge of public safety.

Yeah you can just imagine it....

"Hey jack, we got a whole block on fire, lexington and marino, we'd better get down there"

"Nah plenty of time, rain'll probably put it out"

Anyone fancy lending their signatures to a petitiion for an investigation into this fight, I know it's quite a while after the event, but it really was sick.

What's attempted manslaughter, I thought manslaughter was accidental and not planned murder.

Chuckle, yeah, you got a point there, how can you attempt to do something by accident?