How did you score it: Patterson Vs Ellis 1968

[yancey]

I watched Patterson and Cooper for the first time on youtube recently and was very impressed with how Floyd put away Cooper.

Yancey,

I have never seen that.

Tell some more about it.

Patterson knocked Cooper down late in the 3rd round with a left hook. Cooper got up around 4, I believe.

About a minute into the 4th round he knocked him down again with a leaping, left hook. Like a panther, lightning quick. Cooper got up around 8.

About 30-40 seconds later, he put Cooper down for the count with a fast, overhand right.

Impressive win for Floyd.

[granberry]

I just saw the last 2 rounds of the Patterson-Cooper fight.

Floyd is full of energy and has his punch with the kick in it.

He knocks Cooper down the first 2 times with a left hook.

Then he knocks Cooper out flat on his face with a big right hand.

Ali was lucky this Patterson did not show up to fight him.

As far as I know, during Patterson's fight with Cooper, his cornermen did not have to try to give Patterson chiropractic adjustments to his sore back as they did during the Ali-Patterson title fight.

After the first knockdown in the second Liston-Patterson fight, Patterson got up and nailed Liston right on the chin with the same right hand that knocked Cooper out.

The result, Liston just hit him back and ended the fight.

To bad for Floyd that Liston didn't collapse and flop all over the ring like he did in his fake 1 round sham with Ali.

If Ali could "knock out" Liston in the first round with a single "punch,"

then explain to me why he showed he had no punch at all in his VERY NEXT fight against sore-back Patterson.

[Collins2000]

I just saw the last 2 rounds of the Patterson-Cooper fight.

Floyd is full of energy and has his punch with the kick in it.

He knocks Cooper down the first 2 times with a left hook.

Then he knocks Cooper out flat on his face with a big right hand.

Ali was lucky this Patterson did not show up to fight him.

As far as I know, during Patterson's fight with Cooper, his cornermen did not have to try to give Patterson chiropractic adjustments to his sore back as they did during the Ali-Patterson title fight.

After the first knockdown in the second Liston-Patterson fight, Patterson got up and nailed Liston right on the chin with the same right hand that knocked Cooper out.

The result, Liston just hit him back and ended the fight.

To bad for Floyd that Liston didn't collapse and flop all over the ring like he did in his fake 1 round sham with Ali.

If Ali could "knock out" Liston in the first round with a single "punch,"

then explain to me why he showed he had no punch at all in his VERY NEXT fight against sore-back Patterson.

So the distilled summary of your 40+ years of thinking about this is:

The Ali - Liston rematch was obviously a fake because in his next fight Ali didn't win by 1 punch KO.

Very deep, crankberry, very deep.

Using your 'logic' there must be a hell of a lot of fake fights out there, mate.

[granberry]

Collins uses boxrec as his own personal toilet.

[Collins2000]

Collins uses boxrec as his own personal toilet.

Pathetic comeback, mate. I expect that sort of idiotic comment from Dave and RABID but not from the top man in the Ali Haters Club.

Look, if you don't want to keep getting exposed as a dimwitted fraud, you should think a bit before rushing to post.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I don't have want to get into giving an opinion on whether Ali-Liston II was fixed or if Liston just decided to go down or what, but does anyone here actually believe the punch genuinely separated Liston from his senses? I mean, isn't this place above that kind of idiocy?

For whatever reason, Liston laid down. End of story.

[granberry]

I don't have want to get into giving an opinion on whether Ali-Liston II was fixed or if Liston just decided to go down or what, but does anyone here actually believe the punch genuinely separated Liston from his senses? I mean, isn't this place above that kind of idiocy?

For whatever reason, Liston laid down. End of story.

The photo of that fake is the number one seller to the clueless masses, along with their Che posters.

None of them know that the photo is of a raw fake.

[BoxBuzz]

OK folks move along...there's nothing to see here...it's just granberry having another one of his "moments".

granberry I call upon you in the name of all that is holy to stop embarrasing yourself in front of all the folks here during this Chrstmas season.

I have mentioned on several occasions that I for one believe you have good boxing knowledge. However people are begining to question my credibility based on my supportive statements in your behalf. I know that you are saying these outlandish things purely to make me appear not to know what I"m talking about...it's all about spite with you. It's been your goal ever since you arrived to prove to others that I have no boxing sense at all. And with these outlandish statements you are making headway in this area.

However I am a loyal and faithful person and I will not abandon you in your time if dementia. I still have faith that in spite of you delusions you still harbor great knowledge of the sweet science. And here is where Collins and I disagree.

So drink a cup of cheer, be merry and may all of the blessing of the season be in bountiful supply with you and yours.

And remember and try to wrap your thoughts around these few important facts.

Ali and Leonard's reputation's will likely suffer little at the hands of your willfull intent to negatively affect their remarkable legacy's. For the most part your heavy handed subversive load of manure aimed at these two athletes will fall away of it's own weight.

Now move along, take your medications at the proper times, say several hail mary's and stop making a spectacle of yourself. There are some children that come to read these contributions and we don't want them being exposed to such disinformation about boxing before their young minds mature enough to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Anyway everyone knows that Liston would have beaten the bejabbers out of Clay IF they would have had the fight at the earlier set date. Liston was all ready and then became depressed and despondent when Ali postponed it. He just couldn't bring himself to continue training and he started eating bon bons and began to lose his focus as well as his figure.

(That's always been my favorite of the various excuses manufactured for Liston's lack of performance this time around which was most probably due to the fact that he just didn't want to take another 7 or 8 rounds of the inevitable one sided beating that was about to be imposed on him......especially with no linament readily handy for this fight)

[yancey]

I don't have want to get into giving an opinion on whether Ali-Liston II was fixed or if Liston just decided to go down or what, but does anyone here actually believe the punch genuinely separated Liston from his senses? I mean, isn't this place above that kind of idiocy?

For whatever reason, Liston laid down. End of story.

Sure he laid down.

It was a pretty lousy acting job, imo.

I love it when he starts to get up, then flops back down.

[HomicideHenry]

In regards the Machen challenge, Eddie was eliminated by his KO loss to Johannsen. That was an eliminator fight, Machen lost in in a round.

Patterson did go on to fight Machen and beat him.

Check out the RING magazine article "Somebody Up There Hates Me" that Eddie Machen did. It is a FACT that Machen was a contender for few years but always seemed to get pushed down by Patterson. How can you argue when Machen defeated the likes of Nino Valdes, Bob Baker, Tommy Jackson and guys like Mike DeJohn all inbetween 1956-1957?

Patterson on the other hand fought guys like Pete Rademacher, all the while ducking Valdes, Baker, and guys like Zora Folley who Machen later fought to a draw with. After the draw against Folley Patterson's manager Cus D'Amato denied Machen and Folley both saying that the fight eliminated both men a shot at Patterson...so Machen went to Sweden, lost by a knockout to Ingemar Johansson, and from then on went slowly but surely downhill.

[Collins2000]

I don't have want to get into giving an opinion on whether Ali-Liston II was fixed or if Liston just decided to go down or what, but does anyone here actually believe the punch genuinely separated Liston from his senses? I mean, isn't this place above that kind of idiocy?

For whatever reason, Liston laid down. End of story.

No one disputes it was an unsatisfactory ending.

But unless you actually believe Ali was involved in paying Liston to lose, I fail to understand why Ali is the one who always gets the bad press over this fiasco.

Liston was the one who was flopping around on the deck after getting hit by what didn't look to be a particularly hard punch.

Walcott was the one who lost control of events to the extent where turned his back on the fighters (and Ali then got stuck into Liston) and then waved the fight off claiming Nat Fleisher told him to.

Have a look at it on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbgPffEx_8s

[Goodnight, Irene]

I'm not blaming Ali. I'm not blaming anyone. I just think it's beyond facile as a discussion point, isn't it?

Liston took the count willingly, for whatever reason. Ali deserves no more blame than he does credit. It just astonishes me that there are people out there who can convince themselves Liston was knocked out. Even as Angelo Dundee tries to explain why it was a legit KO, he fails miserably to keep a straight face.

Not blaming Ali for it. Just saying this forum, IMO, has members above discussing whether the KO was legitimate or staged.

[granberry]

OK folks move along...there's nothing to see here...it's just granberry having another one of his "moments".

granberry I call upon you in the name of all that is holy to stop embarrasing yourself in front of all the folks here during this Chrstmas season.

I have mentioned on several occasions that I for one believe you have good boxing knowledge. However people are begining to question my credibility based on my supportive statements in your behalf. I know that you are saying these outlandish things purely to make me appear not to know what I"m talking about...it's all about spite with you. It's been your goal ever since you arrived to prove to others that I have no boxing sense at all. And with these outlandish statements you are making headway in this area.

However I am a loyal and faithful person and I will not abandon you in your time if dementia. I still have faith that in spite of you delusions you still harbor great knowledge of the sweet science. And here is where Collins and I disagree.

So drink a cup of cheer, be merry and may all of the blessing of the season be in bountiful supply with you and yours.

And remember and try to wrap your thoughts around these few important facts.

Ali and Leonard's reputation's will likely suffer little at the hands of your willfull intent to negatively affect their remarkable legacy's. For the most part your heavy handed subversive load of manure aimed at these two athletes will fall away of it's own weight.

Now move along, take your medications at the proper times, say several hail mary's and stop making a spectacle of yourself. There are some children that come to read these contributions and we don't want them being exposed to such disinformation about boxing before their young minds mature enough to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Anyway everyone knows that Liston would have beaten the bejabbers out of Clay IF they would have had the fight at the earlier set date. Liston was all ready and then became depressed and despondent when Ali postponed it. He just couldn't bring himself to continue training and he started eating bon bons and began to lose his focus as well as his figure.

(That's always been my favorite of the various excuses manufactured for Liston's lack of performance this time around which was most probably due to the fact that he just didn't want to take another 7 or 8 rounds of the inevitable one sided beating that was about to be imposed on him......especially with no linament readily handy for this fight)

buzz and his crew (are they all buzz posting under other 'names'?) collins p4p, etc.

are the resident members of the Religion of Ali on boxrec.

They genuflect every morning at the Shrine of Ali.

They are also "experts" on boxing.

After all, as they proudly say, they own books by Thomas Hauser, Bert Sugar, Ferdie Pacheco, Angelo Dundee, and anyone else who genuflects for Ali.

The definition of a boxing "expert"------

Anyone who can stick his thumb up his ass and say the name Ali at the same time.

[BoxBuzz]

OK folks move along...there's nothing to see here...it's just granberry having another one of his "moments".

granberry I call upon you in the name of all that is holy to stop embarrasing yourself in front of all the folks here during this Chrstmas season.

I have mentioned on several occasions that I for one believe you have good boxing knowledge. However people are begining to question my credibility based on my supportive statements in your behalf. I know that you are saying these outlandish things purely to make me appear not to know what I"m talking about...it's all about spite with you. It's been your goal ever since you arrived to prove to others that I have no boxing sense at all. And with these outlandish statements you are making headway in this area.

However I am a loyal and faithful person and I will not abandon you in your time if dementia. I still have faith that in spite of you delusions you still harbor great knowledge of the sweet science. And here is where Collins and I disagree.

So drink a cup of cheer, be merry and may all of the blessing of the season be in bountiful supply with you and yours.

And remember and try to wrap your thoughts around these few important facts.

Ali and Leonard's reputation's will likely suffer little at the hands of your willfull intent to negatively affect their remarkable legacy's. For the most part your heavy handed subversive load of manure aimed at these two athletes will fall away of it's own weight.

Now move along, take your medications at the proper times, say several hail mary's and stop making a spectacle of yourself. There are some children that come to read these contributions and we don't want them being exposed to such disinformation about boxing before their young minds mature enough to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Anyway everyone knows that Liston would have beaten the bejabbers out of Clay IF they would have had the fight at the earlier set date. Liston was all ready and then became depressed and despondent when Ali postponed it. He just couldn't bring himself to continue training and he started eating bon bons and began to lose his focus as well as his figure.

(That's always been my favorite of the various excuses manufactured for Liston's lack of performance this time around which was most probably due to the fact that he just didn't want to take another 7 or 8 rounds of the inevitable one sided beating that was about to be imposed on him......especially with no linament readily handy for this fight)

buzz and his crew (are they all buzz posting under other 'names'?) collins p4p, etc.

are the resident members of the Religion of Ali on boxrec.

They genuflect every morning at the Shrine of Ali.

They are also "experts" on boxing.

After all, as they proudly say, they own books by Thomas Hauser, Bert Sugar, Ferdie Pacheco, Angelo Dundee, and anyone else who genuflects for Ali.

The definition of a boxing "expert"------

Anyone who can stick his thumb up his ass and say the name Ali at the same time.

speaking of one person posting under multiple names...How's Rapid1 doing these days, granzo? Developed a doppleganger have we? Ought to have that looked at.

[Collins2000]

OK folks move along...there's nothing to see here...it's just granberry having another one of his "moments".

granberry I call upon you in the name of all that is holy to stop embarrasing yourself in front of all the folks here during this Chrstmas season.

I have mentioned on several occasions that I for one believe you have good boxing knowledge. However people are begining to question my credibility based on my supportive statements in your behalf. I know that you are saying these outlandish things purely to make me appear not to know what I"m talking about...it's all about spite with you. It's been your goal ever since you arrived to prove to others that I have no boxing sense at all. And with these outlandish statements you are making headway in this area.

However I am a loyal and faithful person and I will not abandon you in your time if dementia. I still have faith that in spite of you delusions you still harbor great knowledge of the sweet science. And here is where Collins and I disagree.

So drink a cup of cheer, be merry and may all of the blessing of the season be in bountiful supply with you and yours.

And remember and try to wrap your thoughts around these few important facts.

Ali and Leonard's reputation's will likely suffer little at the hands of your willfull intent to negatively affect their remarkable legacy's. For the most part your heavy handed subversive load of manure aimed at these two athletes will fall away of it's own weight.

Now move along, take your medications at the proper times, say several hail mary's and stop making a spectacle of yourself. There are some children that come to read these contributions and we don't want them being exposed to such disinformation about boxing before their young minds mature enough to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

Anyway everyone knows that Liston would have beaten the bejabbers out of Clay IF they would have had the fight at the earlier set date. Liston was all ready and then became depressed and despondent when Ali postponed it. He just couldn't bring himself to continue training and he started eating bon bons and began to lose his focus as well as his figure.

(That's always been my favorite of the various excuses manufactured for Liston's lack of performance this time around which was most probably due to the fact that he just didn't want to take another 7 or 8 rounds of the inevitable one sided beating that was about to be imposed on him......especially with no linament readily handy for this fight)

We'll have to continue to disagree on whether Crankberry does know anything about boxing, buzzy. In my opinion, nothing he has said so far has shown anything beyond a simple ability to parrot discredited myths ad nauseum.

He's got stamina, I'll give him that.

All the best to you and your family for 2008.

[granberry]

ASSIGNMENT FOR buzz

Your assignment is to study this, buzz:

The definition of a boxing "expert"------

Anyone who can stick his thumb up his ass and say the name Ali at the same time.

[Collins2000]

Crankberry has been posting as RABID? Hahahahaha, classic.

Let's not be hasty though, maybe it's just his twin sister posting from the same PC in the same asylum.

[Collins2000]

ASSIGNMENT FOR buzz

Your assignment is to study this, buzz:

The definition of a boxing "expert"------

Anyone who can stick his thumb up his ass and say the name Ali at the same time.

You seem to be cracking up, mate. Better let RABID use the computer for a while.

[granberry]

.
RAPID,

Do you notice how FEMININE the Ali Worshippers are in their spite?
.

[Collins2000]

.
RAPID,

Do you notice how FEMININE the Ali Worshippers are in their spite?
.

granberry, post some more junk under your RABID pseudonym...