Classic American West Coast Boxing

kikibalt
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Post by kikibalt »

BoxBuzz wrote:I'm truly not sure anyone could claim a Boxing forum thread with greater content than this gem. I continue to drop in and read each new chapter and though I don't have much to contribute myself I do truly appreciate what I'm reading here.

Judging from the sheer numbers it is clear I'm not alone.

Threads typically have a three or four day shelf life with perhaps several contributions and a few dozen readers. We are past a month here and approaching a thousand readers a day. That''s not taking into account the bit of surgery that took place on this thread in the early going.

It has the feel of a book being published in real time on line.
Thanks Buzzie,

One thing I can say is that we're having fun, at least I am.
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Post by Expug »

Tony Doyle fought at the Olympic a number of times.
He took Jerry Quarry to a draw first time they fought although Quarry had only a dozen fights or so.
I see he also fought Orbillo.
Im curious about Doyles career.
Anyone see him fight at the Olympic?
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Post by scartissue »

Expug wrote:
bennie wrote:
scartissue wrote: I remember a funny but troubling story about Bruce Curry a number of years back. Apparently he got into a squabble towards the end of his career with Jesse Reid when he showed up at the gym and Reid threw him out and locked the door. Well this gym had one of those old style key locks with the large opening and the highly insulted Curry got a gun and when he couldn't get in he shoved the gun through the lock and began firing aimlessly. I know he was taken away and evaluated. I think the last time I actually saw him was after a Donald Curry fight and there he was in the background making faces at the camera. Wayyy out there!

Scartissue
Yes, Jesse Reid had told Curry he wanted him to retire and Curry wasn't having it.
What a fight Curry had with Monroe Brooks though.
I remember this one was on National TV on I believe a Friday night.
It was so good I remember exactly where I was .
Sittin in Military school with a couple buddies .
1978 everybody else was out doing whatever it was folks back in the 70s did on Friday nights.
But not me.
I was watchin the fights.
I was better off.
What I remember most of that fight, besides the fact that it was a total barn-burner, was that Brooks had a habit of making fights way harder than they were. Brooks was a skilled boxer who had a bit of pop in his punches. The problem was that he preferred banging than boxing. I remember he let the Adolfo Viruet get away from him and moreso, the Bruce Curry fight. He was teeing off on Curry from round one and this suited Curry just fine. They made a big thing about these two being former friends (some chick ended the friendship) and eventually Curry took him out in the 9th with a one-puncher, when Brooks should have been boxing. Of course, it was great for us cuz we saw a war. I laughed at the post-fight interview. It was national live TV, Gil Clancy is talking to them and Brooks, still a little buzzed says, "I know there was bad s**t between us..." Clancy cringing live was priceless.

Scartissue
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Post by bennie »

I still remember a pic of a smiling Curry in a Las Vegas ring on a balmy May night in 1983.
For once, boxing worked.
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Post by kikibalt »

Image
Boom Boom Mancini and Harold Lederman
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Post by bennie »

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Frankie Toledo
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Post by kikibalt »

Image
Jose Sulaiman on the left and Bill O'Neill on the right (who was probably WBHF president at the time) awarding Rodolfo Gonzalez and Mando Ramos their WBC championship belts.
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Post by kikibalt »

Image
I don't know the gent on the left but from there we have Jake Shugrue, Frankie Crawford, Bill O'Neill and seated is Freddie Moreno.
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Post by kikibalt »

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Raul Rojas and George Parnassus
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Post by kikibalt »

Expug wrote:Tony Doyle fought at the Olympic a number of times.
He took Jerry Quarry to a draw first time they fought although Quarry had only a dozen fights or so.
I see he also fought Orbillo.
Im curious about Doyles career.
Anyone see him fight at the Olympic?
Pugs,

I seen Doyle fight both Quarry and Orbillo, but don't remember much of either fight.
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Post by kikibalt »

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Frankie Baltazar (L) vs Juan Escobar
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Post by dagosd2000 »

dagosd2000 wrote:="scartissue"]
dagosd2000 wrote:I remember when Jimmy Heair was going great guns in the Southland. When he was undefeated he was getting quite a following. He fought some good fighters at the Coliseum like Mike Mayan and Lobito Montoya. He also scored victories over Tury Pineda and Chango Carmona. Then I read that he lost his first fight to Rudy Barro in LA. I remember Barro,I thought, was used as a way up for promising fighters. I saw Hedgemon Lewis KO him. But after that loss Barro beat Andy Price and Quincy Daniels. Looking at the record,his next fight beats Jimmy Heair. But then he started losing again. I saw him towards the end of his career lose a fight to a veteran fighter by the name of Bert Lee. Barro had moved up in weight. He lost on cuts. His face looked pretty beat up and I think cuts were affecting his perfomances . He was a tough guy. Because of his name and his looks I thought he was Mexican. He was Phlippino. Another of the tough club fighters of my era.

You guys have anything to add on him?
I was really surprised when Jimmy Heair lost to him, dago. And then I saw the fight, which is about the only time I saw Barro fight. He did well, survived a late rally by Heair who was really trying to take him out and deserved the decision. But I really thought Heair was missing something. I know he was having problems with the nose and management but I felt he should have taken Barro. Of course, then he went to Australia and lost widely to Hector Thompson (No shame, Thompson was outstanding) but then lost to Mike Mayan, a man he had already beaten twice. After that I knew Heair was done.

Scartissue
Scar,Thanks for sharing that story about the Heair/Barro fight. I've got to take my wife for her medicine,but when I get back I'll tell you about the time I saw Jimmy get stopped in TJ by a fighter named Bull Dog Soberanes,a fighter who had never won a fight.[/quote]


"Your boy is fighting tonight",I said.
"Jimmy Heair?",asked Pat.
"In the Auditorium in Tijuana."
Pat Collier was from Texas,but that didn't make any difference. Jimmy Heair was born in the South and that was good enough for Pat. Oh,and the fact that Jimmy Heair was white.
"Who's Jimmy fighting?"
"Some guy by the name of 'Bull Dog' "
"Is he any good?"
"If you're fighting a guy with the name 'Bull Dog' you better watch your ass",I told him.
I'd never heard of Juan 'Bull Dog' Soberanes, let alone seen him fight. But what the hell. It was a chance to get out and watch a fight,and besides after the fight we could always have a good time in the cantinas.

There were posters of the fight all over town. That's how I knew about it.I wish I had my hands on some of those old fight posters now. They go for quite a bit of money on Ebay. Everytime there was a fight in TJ they were plastered all over everything. I think of the fights with Napoles,Olivares ,Saldivar,Sugar Ramos,not to mention Americans like Sugar Ray and Archie Moore. But who in the hell thought of collecting fight posters off of walls in Tijuana? I could have pulled down hundreds of them and no one would have said nothing. Can anyone remember when your mother threw away your baseball cards?

We park across the street next to Carnitas Uruapan and pay the kid a buck to keep an eye on the car. If you don't pay the kid a buck,well whatever is inside your car when you come back is probably going to wind up at the 'Tiangis"(swap meet) on Sunday. And the kid will be selling it.

We sit ringside and buy a beer from the vendor.
"How's Jimmy Heair doing these days?"asked Pat.
"I've lost track. He started losing and went to Texas I think."
"Well if he went back to Texas he knew what he was doing"
"I think he switched managers."
Jimmy Heair was a big draw in the Southland. Tall blond kid. Above average skills. Undefeated in over 30 fights. He was headed for a shot at the lightweight title,but was upset by a tough club fighter by the name of Rudy Barro at the Olympic Auditorium In Los Angeles. Then I heard he had an injury to his nose that was giving him problems breathing. Breathing is one thing you don't want to have problems with when you're fighting.

The crowd is good. Jimmy Heair was a known fighter who was having his way beating Mexican fighters on his way up,so tonight it was time to get even . I'd see that a lot, especially with ethnic people. For instance Hedgemon Lewis beat a lot of Mexican fighters to become a contender,and then when Napoles knocked him out it was doubly satisfying. Heair had beaten Carmona and Pineda,two real good Mexican fighters,so tonight's match wouldn't find anyone cheering for Heair except maybe Pat. So I kept check on him and was counting the number of beers he was drinking. This guy had got me in hot water before with his mouth and what made it worse is that he couldn't fight.

The preliminaries were good and I made sure I didn't buy a beer for Pat. He was always broke so I knew he was waiting for me to buy him one more,but I'd wait until the fights were through. The main event was the next bout on the card and I can see Jimmy Heair walking down to the ring. I didn't recognize any of his cornermen. "Bull Dog" followed Heair into the ring. I'd never heard of Juan Soberanes,the "Bull Dog",so I figured even if Heair had slipped, he had enough experience to beat "man's best friend."

The fight starts fast with Heair having the height and reach in his favor. He uses the advantage to fight the "Bull Dog" on the end of his left hand. Heair easily wins the first and second rounds moving, jabbing ,catching the "Bull Dog" with a right hand ,and tying him up inside . Clinching is supposedly against the rules in Mexican boxing so when Heair tied him up Heair caught an earfull from the crowd. Besides,Jimmy was in good shape. Why did they think this kid had a chance against him? The only thing in the back of my mind was that anytime an American fighter fights in Mexico nobody is on his side. Not even the U.S Consulate.

Halfway through the fight Heair has won every round. Pat wants to say something,something in a racial context, so he yells out "Jimmy. Knock the wetback out!"
I nudge the idiot,but he's confident because Heair is winning the fight big.
"White power Jimmy!" And now Pat starts laughing. I'm thinking, if this moron starts a fight,I'm going to talk Spanish and join everyone else when they start to kill him.

At the close of the 5th round "Bull Dog" gets desperate and butts Heair in a clinch. Heairs nose opens up and blood is running out of it like someone had knocked over a pitcher of beer. The ten second buzzer goes off and I can see Heair trying to put up his arms in front of his face. The bell rings and Heair plops on his stool. The referee is reading the papers and doesn't do anything to punish the "Bull Dog". Heair's corner isn't saying anything either. I can't believe it. Then on top of all that,they make Heair blow his nose. Now the dam has really broke and I'm thinking Heair's going to need a transfusion if they're ever going to get him back to the U.S. alive.

The 6th round gets everybody at ringside bloody with Heair's blood. Jimmy doesn't throw a punch. At the bell the ringside doc goes to Heair's corner and stops the fight. Pat is upset and says something to effect that they should have DQ'd the "Bull Dog " and made Heair the winner. I didn't want to tell him that I was perfectly satisfied with the decision. That's the kind of things that happen down here.

We start walking to the car. Pat looks at the front of his shirt.
"I got Heair's blood all over me",he says.
"Don't worry. Where we're going now,it'll be so dark no one will see it."
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 20 Mar 2008, 22:35, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by kikibalt »

Ringside Report.COM Has An Opening for One New Boxing Writer
RSR Press Release-March 20, 2008

RSR has one opening for a new boxing writer that loves the sport of boxing. Experience is preferred, but we will consider any entries that we receive. If you are interested in writing for RSR, please send two examples of your work (One must be boxing related), and include your contact information. Doing interviews with boxers and people involved in the boxing world is also something that will help you get the job.
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Post by Rick Farris »

Expug wrote:Tony Doyle fought at the Olympic a number of times.
He took Jerry Quarry to a draw first time they fought although Quarry had only a dozen fights or so.
I see he also fought Orbillo.
Im curious about Doyles career.
Anyone see him fight at the Olympic?
I remember when Doyle came to Los Angeles to fight Jerry Quarry in the off-TV "main event". The bout started at 10pm, after the telvised portion of the show ended. At the time, the thursday night fights used KTLA Ch.5 sports annoncer, Dick Enberg as a rinside analyst. After the news started, Enberg would do the sports report from the Olympic, and I watched to hear the result of the fight. I recall Enberg coming on the screen and saying, "Jerry Quarry is still unbeaten, but he didn't win." Later, he would tell the news audience that the bout was declared a "draw".

-Rick Farris
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Post by scartissue »

The fight starts fast with Heair having the height and reach in his favor. He uses the advantage to fight the "Bull Dog" on the end of his left hand. Heair easily wins the first and second rounds moving, jabbing ,catching the "Bull Dog" with a right hand ,and tying him up inside . Clinching is supposedly against the rules in Mexican boxing so when Heair tied him up Heair caught an earfull from the crowd. Besides,Jimmy was in good shape. Why did they think this kid had a chance against him? The only thing in the back of my mind was that anytime an American fighter fights in Mexico nobody is on his side. Not even the U.S Consulate.

Halfway through the fight Heair has won every round. Pat wants to say something,something in a racial context, so he yells out "Jimmy. Knock the wetback out!"
I nudge the idiot,but he's confident because Heair is winning the fight big.
"White power Jimmy!" And now Pat starts laughing. I'm thinking, if this moron starts a fight,I'm going to talk Spanish join everyone else when they start to kill him.

At the close of the 5th round "Bull Dog" gets desperate and butts Heair in a clinch. Heairs nose opens up and blood is running out of it like someone had knocked over a pitcher of beer. The ten second buzzer goes off and I can see Heair trying to put up his arms in front of his face. The bell rings and Heair plops on his stool. The referee is reading the papers and doesn't do anything to punish the "Bull Dog". Heair's corner isn't saying anything either. I can't believe it. Then on top of all that,they make Heair blow his nose. Now the dam has really broke and I'm thinking Heair's going to need a transfusion if they're ever going to get him back to the U.S. alive.


Dago, thanks for the story and for clearing up that result. Y'know, that one always bothered me. I knew Jimmy's talent and more than anything, his jaw. And I never could understand how he got stopped by this guy. You've cleared up a long mystery.

Scartissue
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Post by granberry »

kikibalt wrote:Ringside Report.COM Has An Opening for One New Boxing Writer
RSR Press Release-March 20, 2008

RSR has one opening for a new boxing writer that loves the sport of boxing. Experience is preferred, but we will consider any entries that we receive. If you are interested in writing for RSR, please send two examples of your work (One must be boxing related), and include your contact information. Doing interviews with boxers and people involved in the boxing world is also something that will help you get the job.
Absolutely pathetic.
.
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Post by kikibalt »

granberry wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Ringside Report.COM Has An Opening for One New Boxing Writer
RSR Press Release-March 20, 2008

RSR has one opening for a new boxing writer that loves the sport of boxing. Experience is preferred, but we will consider any entries that we receive. If you are interested in writing for RSR, please send two examples of your work (One must be boxing related), and include your contact information. Doing interviews with boxers and people involved in the boxing world is also something that will help you get the job.
Absolutely pathetic.
.
Who? you?
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Post by dagosd2000 »

Rick Farris wrote:
Expug wrote:Tony Doyle fought at the Olympic a number of times.
He took Jerry Quarry to a draw first time they fought although Quarry had only a dozen fights or so.
I see he also fought Orbillo.
Im curious about Doyles career.
Anyone see him fight at the Olympic?
I remember when Doyle came to Los Angeles to fight Jerry Quarry in the off-TV "main event". The bout started at 10pm, after the telvised portion of the show ended. At the time, the thursday night fights used KTLA Ch.5 sports annoncer, Dick Enberg as a rinside analyst. After the news started, Enberg would do the sports report from the Olympic, and I watched to hear the result of the fight. I recall Enberg coming on the screen and saying, "Jerry Quarry is still unbeaten, but he didn't win." Later, he would tell the news audience that the bout was declared a "draw".

-Rick Farris
Rick and Pug
I remember Tony when he was one of Ali's sparring partners for the first Norton fight. Ali did more taliking on the microphone than sparring with Doyle. Tony seemed to take Ali's showmanship in stride. Probably heard it a hundred times. When Ali would introduce Tony before a workout,he'd say,"Here's Irish Tony Doyle. You notice that his trunks are green. His gloves are green.His shoes are green. Even his jockey strap is green." Everyone is busting up,except Doyle. Heard it a hundred and one times.
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Post by granberry »

kikibalt wrote:
granberry wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Ringside Report.COM Has An Opening for One New Boxing Writer
RSR Press Release-March 20, 2008

RSR has one opening for a new boxing writer that loves the sport of boxing. Experience is preferred, but we will consider any entries that we receive. If you are interested in writing for RSR, please send two examples of your work (One must be boxing related), and include your contact information. Doing interviews with boxers and people involved in the boxing world is also something that will help you get the job.
Absolutely pathetic.
.
Who? you?


kikibalt,

I would call your posting the crap by Toole/Boyd

and then ADMITTING the crap you posted by Toole/ Boyd is fiction

is beyond pathetic.

kikibalt wrote:
granberry wrote:
kikibalt wrote:Image


I ran the crap on Liston that appears right at the start of this by a number of Philly and Chicago people who had contact with Liston over the years.

They all laughed at it.

Their comment was that Toole/Jerry Boyd almost certainly never had any contact with Liston.

Of course Liston's longtime cut man was Joe Polino, with Milt Bailey there also sometimes.
Its a short story my boy, it fiction, son you have to learn how to read fiction.
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Post by Collins2000 »

granberry wrote:
kikibalt wrote:
granberry wrote: Absolutely pathetic.
.
Who? you?


kikibalt,

I would call your posting the crap by Toole/Boyd

and then ADMITTING the crap you posted by Toole/ Boyd is fiction

is beyond pathetic.

Nutberry, I think you should preface all your posts with a warning that they contain large amounts of nonsense and a good dose of bitterness at being a nobody thrown in for good measure.
Last edited by Collins2000 on 21 Mar 2008, 07:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kikibalt »

Sparring Partners

Stories about the fight game from a veteran corner man.

A Trainer Turned Writer Rolls With the Punches (Aug. 22, 2000)
Image
By ALLEN BARRA

ROPE BURNS
Stories From the Corner.
By F. X. Toole.
235 pp. New York:
The Ecco Press/
HarperCollins Publishers. $23.

here aren't many people left who can testify to the authenticity of the stories in Francis Xavier Toole's first short-story collection, ''Rope Burns.'' For better or worse (and if we were to judge the fate of most of Toole's characters, it's hard not to say worse), the world of professional boxing is rapidly disappearing in this country. Toole, a 70-year-old former boxer, trainer and corner man -- someone who jumps in a prizefighter's corner between rounds with a bucket, a sponge and advice -- has written what amounts to a series of elegies for fighters with names like Adolph Dashiki Jones, Cuba Kid Babaloo, Henry Puddin' Pye and Fightin' Maggie Fitzgerald, as well as for their trainers, old Irishmen with names like Con Flutey, Frankie Dunn and Joseph Mary McGee, men who get so close to their fighters they earned the right to say ''we,'' as in ''we fought,'' ''we're gonna fight,'' ''we won,'' ''we got beat.''
Image
Toole's corner men dispense life lessons to their fighters. ''Boxing,'' says one, ''is an unnatural act. . . . Instead of runnin' from pain, which is the natural thing in life, in boxing you step to it, get me?'' They also perform practical services. ''My job,'' says another corner man, an ace cut man, ''is to stop blood so the fighter can see enough to keep on fighting. I do that, maybe I save a boy's title. I do that one little thing, and I'm worth every cent they pay me. I stop the blood and save the fight, the boy loves me more than he loves his daddy.''

''I love boxing,'' one of Toole's corner men says, ''almost as much as I love the sacraments.'' Some of his other characters are not so devout; there is, for instance, the trainer who pleads with the patron saint of hopeless cases: ''Intercede for me, Jude Thaddeus. Though I hate God.'' The deity, however, is in the details of Toole's stories -- in the gyms, auditoriums and hotels where the fighters and trainers spend their professional lives.

Toole's prose is sharp and jablike, and at its best comes at you with the rhythm of a good gym fighter working on the speed bag. Toole has a talent for illuminating the thoughts of the near illiterate but streetwise: ''We was brought to Atlantic City to be the opponent. Opponent in the fight game mean the one suppose to lose.'' Opponents have to eat in places with ''steam coming up and grease all over. Hot dogs and dried-out fish and chicken fried near to black. Cold pork chops all bone and fat. Food be dead.'' Toole also has a talent for giving the staccato rhythm of a fight through men who see it from the corners: ''Reggie keep on putting a hurt on the boy. I yell to Reggie to relax and have fun. . . . Boy never been in this water. Big strong boy, and he tough, he gain weight, like Reggie, but he tired from all that missing. . . . He taking so many punches, he think he be fighting a drag queen with a purse.''



Misha Erwitt for The New York Times
Charles (Big Train) Martin, left, with Jerry Boyd (a k a F. X. Toole), trainer, cutman and the author of "Rope Burns," in Los Angeles.

The best stories in ''Rope Burns'' concern men and women who manage to somehow scratch out a split decision in a life that always seems to have height, reach and a 20-pound weight advantage over them. ''Fightin in Philly'' is a lacerating account of how desire to excel in the ring drains a man for life outside it. (''Most thought the game was corrupt because of the money. Con saw it otherwise, that there was money because of the corruption.'') In ''The Monkey Look,'' a journeyman trainer gets revenge for an arrogant champ in poetic fashion. (''Fans think boxing is about being tough. For members of the fancy, the fight game is about getting respect.'') ''Million $$$ Baby'' is an improbable but ultimately persuasive story of the rise and tragic fall of the first great female boxer.

Only the title story, the book's longest, doesn't land flush. A novella about a would-be Olympian trying to fight his way out of the Los Angeles ghetto in the supercharged atmosphere before the Rodney King verdict, ''Rope Burns'' builds up too much intensity to be satisfyingly resolved by an explosion of violence that seems forced. Longer fiction seems to stretch Toole's modest though solid gifts as a storyteller, and the unlikely combination of cool narrative and wild Irish sentimentalism that sustains the shorter stories doesn't hold together. Still, this is an impressive collection, not bad for a kid who just turned pro.

Allen Barra writes about sports for The Wall Street Journal and for Salon.com.
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Post by kikibalt »

Nut-Berry, is one pathetic squirrel, he is no more then a groupie, who wants to be a boxing insider so bad that he makes up stories about wiseguys/boxing to impress the members on this board and not many believe him anymore, who in his right mind would believe his bull-shit? so he comes up with some of the wall stuff that you can only say this squirrel is nuts.

Nut-Berry, jealously will get you no-where, get your sorry ass of that crazy trip you're on and join the real world, I'll even introduce you to some real pro fighters so you can get your rocks off.
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Post by bennie »

Ignore him, Frankie.
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Post by kikibalt »

bennie wrote:Ignore him, Frankie.
I'm, I just had to get a jab in and rock him on his heels.
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Post by kikibalt »

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Bobby Woods
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