Ranking the best lightweights 1970's-present

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 27 Mar 2008, 19:37

Who would you back in a Lightweight bout between Manos de Piedra & Sweet Pea, Ojing-a?

plopeater · Post by **plopeater** » 27 Mar 2008, 19:54

01.Jim Watt
02.Roberto Duran
03.Juan Diaz
04.Amir Khan
05.Michael Katsidis
06.Pernell Whitaker

My top 6 , my lightweight past boxers aint the best

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 27 Mar 2008, 19:58

plopeater wrote:01.Jim Watt
02.Roberto Duran
03.Juan Diaz
04.Amir Khan
05.Michael Katsidis
06.Pernell Whitaker

My top 6 , my lightweight past boxers aint the best

nobody goes above duran from 70's to present

plopeater · Post by **plopeater** » 27 Mar 2008, 20:00

p4p1 wrote:
plopeater wrote:01.Jim Watt
02.Roberto Duran
03.Juan Diaz
04.Amir Khan
05.Michael Katsidis
06.Pernell Whitaker

My top 6 , my lightweight past boxers aint the best
nobody goes above duran from 70's to present

Duran looked better coz he had more fights

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 27 Mar 2008, 20:04

plopeater wrote:
p4p1 wrote:
plopeater wrote:01.Jim Watt
02.Roberto Duran
03.Juan Diaz
04.Amir Khan
05.Michael Katsidis
06.Pernell Whitaker

My top 6 , my lightweight past boxers aint the best
nobody goes above duran from 70's to present
Duran looked better coz he had more fights

duran was most probably the greatest lightweight ever after light weight he won 3 more world title when he was PAST his prime he was the best

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 27 Mar 2008, 20:13

"nobody goes above duran from 70's to present" - P4P1

Nobody beats the Lightweight Whitaker. Duran would be chewing on the top rope between rounds in frustration.

Expug · Post by **Expug** » 27 Mar 2008, 20:43

Manos de Piedra is Durans nickname.
It means hands of stone.

I Feel Fine · Post by **I Feel Fine** » 28 Mar 2008, 02:59

You don't know Duran's nickname and yet you know enough to make a list of the best Lightweights.

Mayweather and De La Hoya and Chavez belong on the list ahead of Casamayor, Johnston, Castillo, Spadafora. Whitaker is #2, but not tied with Duran, though its close in my opinion. I do agree that Casamayor should be ranked top 10, I had him beating Castillo for example, but I wouldn't rank him top five or ahead of Mosley.

Spadafora's name shouldn't be top ten. Juan Diaz shouldn't now that he lost to Campbell.

As for Duran-Whitaker, I would say its a close fight, but Duran is better than Chavez or Oscar. I might lean towards Duran, though I guess I wouldn't be surprised. I do think Whitaker is the best fighter of the last 20 years.

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:11

My list, for what it's worth

1. Duran
2. Whittaker
3. Mosley
4. Arguello
5. De Jesus
6. Buchanan
7. Rosario
8. Casamayor
9. Mancini
10.Ramirez

plopeater · Post by **plopeater** » 28 Mar 2008, 09:31

Flump wrote:My list, for what it's worth

1. Duran
2. Whittaker
3. Mosley
4. Arguello
5. De Jesus
6. Buchanan
7. Rosario
8. Casamayor
9. Mancini
10.Ramirez

A good list but where are modern boxers like Khan and Katsidis

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 28 Mar 2008, 13:07

plopeater wrote:
Flump wrote:My list, for what it's worth

1. Duran
2. Whittaker
3. Mosley
4. Arguello
5. De Jesus
6. Buchanan
7. Rosario
8. Casamayor
9. Mancini
10.Ramirez
A good list but where are modern boxers like Khan and Katsidis

Neither of those guys have even won world titles, ask me again in five years!

plopeater · Post by **plopeater** » 28 Mar 2008, 13:19

Flump wrote:
plopeater wrote:
Flump wrote:My list, for what it's worth

1. Duran
2. Whittaker
3. Mosley
4. Arguello
5. De Jesus
6. Buchanan
7. Rosario
8. Casamayor
9. Mancini
10.Ramirez
A good list but where are modern boxers like Khan and Katsidis
Neither of those guys have even won world titles, ask me again in five years!

28th march 2013 you will be asked again

Flump · Post by **Flump** » 28 Mar 2008, 13:21

plopeater wrote:
Flump wrote:
plopeater wrote: A good list but where are modern boxers like Khan and Katsidis
Neither of those guys have even won world titles, ask me again in five years!
28th march 2013 you will be asked again

Lol, I'll be sat here waiting mate!

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 28 Mar 2008, 19:55

plopeater wrote:
Flump wrote:
plopeater wrote: A good list but where are modern boxers like Khan and Katsidis
Neither of those guys have even won world titles, ask me again in five years!
28th march 2013 you will be asked again

you must be having a lend sometimes mate?

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 28 Mar 2008, 22:04

Flump wrote:
plopeater wrote:
Flump wrote: Neither of those guys have even won world titles, ask me again in five years!
28th march 2013 you will be asked again
Lol, I'll be sat here waiting mate!

Flump, is it just me, or do you also get the feeling, somehow, some way, you will be asked again, on this date five years down the line?

p4p1 · Post by **p4p1** » 28 Mar 2008, 22:07

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
Flump wrote:
plopeater wrote: 28th march 2013 you will be asked again
Lol, I'll be sat here waiting mate!
Flump, is it just me, or do you also get the feeling, somehow, some way, you will be asked again, on this date five years down the line?

i honestly wouldnt be suprised

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 29 Mar 2008, 03:12

Whitaker is overrated, he drew against a past-prime and blown up Chavez who was COMING UP in weight. Duran was in his prime as a LW all the way until the 2nd Leonard fight, then he started slipping. Duran would've given him a pounding.

pete · Post by **pete** » 29 Mar 2008, 14:39

I never liked Whitaker and I love Duran but I doubt any lightweight would give Whitaker a "pounding".I do think Duran would beat him in a close decision because at 135 Duran had very fast hands,fast enough that he wouldn't be at such a speed disadvantage many of Whitaker's opponents were.

Borinken25 · Post by **Borinken25** » 29 Mar 2008, 18:20

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Whitaker is overrated, he drew against a past-prime and blown up Chavez who was COMING UP in weight. Duran was in his prime as a LW all the way until the 2nd Leonard fight, then he started slipping. Duran would've given him a pounding.

The official decision was a draw; however, that is one of the worst decisions that I've ever seen. It should have been a clear UD for Whitaker in my opinion. Don't forget that a prime Duran lost to De Jesus a good but not great fighter. Whitaker was by far a better fighter than De Jesus.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 29 Mar 2008, 22:01

pete wrote:I never liked Whitaker and I love Duran but I doubt any lightweight would give Whitaker a "pounding".I do think Duran would beat him in a close decision because at 135 Duran had very fast hands,fast enough that he wouldn't be at such a speed disadvantage many of Whitaker's opponents were.

Yes, I agree... I just get a lil carried away when it comes to Whitaker, I think way too many people praise him more than he actually deserves and it aggravates me.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 29 Mar 2008, 22:12

Borinken25 wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:Whitaker is overrated, he drew against a past-prime and blown up Chavez who was COMING UP in weight. Duran was in his prime as a LW all the way until the 2nd Leonard fight, then he started slipping. Duran would've given him a pounding.
The official decision was a draw; however, that is one of the worst decisions that I've ever seen. It should have been a clear UD for Whitaker in my opinion. Don't forget that a prime Duran lost to De Jesus a good but not great fighter. Whitaker was by far a better fighter than De Jesus.

Then Duran came back and beat the living shit out of De Jesus twice when he was more developed into his prime... Whitaker lost to Ramirez too, and he wasn't as good as Duran, we can go back and forth with this shit. I simply believe Duran to be the greater of the two and I can easily see how the Whitaker-Chavez fight could be scored as it was. Even Sports Illustrated had it as a Draw despite their cover bitching about the decision. I thought Whitaker was much closer to his prime than Chavez by that point too. Chavez was at his best from 130-135 and in his first couple years at 140, then he started sliding, starting with his speed/reflexes. After their fight Whitaker had a few fights and won another title at another weight (154) and Chavez split fights with Frankie Randall, a guy he definitely wouldn't have lost to in his more glorious years.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 29 Mar 2008, 22:17

Borinken25 wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:Whitaker is overrated, he drew against a past-prime and blown up Chavez who was COMING UP in weight. Duran was in his prime as a LW all the way until the 2nd Leonard fight, then he started slipping. Duran would've given him a pounding.
The official decision was a draw; however, that is one of the worst decisions that I've ever seen. It should have been a clear UD for Whitaker in my opinion. Don't forget that a prime Duran lost to De Jesus a good but not great fighter. Whitaker was by far a better fighter than De Jesus.

Bullshit, Esteban DeJesus would have stayed or beaten any lightweight in history. He was a very, very good fighter...excellent technician and courageous boxer.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 29 Mar 2008, 22:30

My picks of the best lightweights since the 1970s decade:

1. Roberto Duran
2. Pernell Whitaker
3. Shane Mosley
4. Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
5. Esteban DeJesus
6. Ken Buchanan
7. Julio Cesar Chavez
8. Oscar De La Hoya
9. Miguel Angel Gonzalez
10. Ishimatsu Suzuki

Honorary Mention:
Joel Casamayor
Orzoubek Nazarov
Alexis Arguello
Livingstone Bramble
Ray "Boom Boom" Mancini

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 29 Mar 2008, 22:39

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Whitaker is overrated, he drew against a past-prime and blown up Chavez who was COMING UP in weight. Duran was in his prime as a LW all the way until the 2nd Leonard fight, then he started slipping. Duran would've given him a pounding.

Puh-lease, broham 8)

I assume you haven't seen the Chavez & Ramirez fights of Whitaker's, or at least I do hope you haven't, because both were appalling decisions. Once you sit down & watch these, you'll see a pair of straight-forward Whitaker victories, so you really can't cite those if you are going to argue against him. "No Way, Jose" (it wasn't a reference to Ramirez, either, if that's what you're assuming) during the return with Ramirez might ring a bell with some members here.

Likewise, no excuses for Duran against DeJesus. Duran did not, "develope more" later, he was at his peak, & just wasn't good enough. Hey, it was one night, & Duran later avenged the loss, twice. Good on him. However, DeJesus beat a prime Duran, no two ways about that.

If anything, Duran is the oversold fighter who has abilities bestowed upon him he either didn't possess, or didn't to the extent of which they are spoken of. Whitaker is hardly discussed at all next to how often Duran is (& Duran's status, like Ali's, is overblown, as brilliant as each of them were). Whitaker'd just be plain too clever for Duran. DeJesus was a great fighter, but not in Whitaker's league. Benitez was a great fighter, though not in Whitaker's league, either.

This much, & one thing more. At no weight or age does Chavez ever beat Whitaker.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 29 Mar 2008, 23:38

I could see Whitaker beating Duran. But I also could see DeJesus and Duran and Buchanan beating Whitaker too at any given night. All of them great champions at lightweight.