he turns everything into a why ali is shit threadWoller wrote:No Granberry
Don´t tell lies about me. I do not want facts of any kind banned, but I would love to se you go. You turn any topic into rubbish. This topic was a question of the Ali v Williams fight, was filmed from different camera angels.
Woller
Muhammad Ali vrs Cleveland Williams(Nov.14.1966)
Woller wrote:No Granberry
Don´t tell lies about me. I do not want facts of any kind banned, but I would love to se you go. You turn any topic into rubbish. This topic was a question of the Ali v Williams fight, was filmed from different camera angels.
Woller
Woller,
You DO want facts banned,
as you have just stated above.
You want the fact that Cleveland Williams was missing one kidney, ten feet of his small intestine, and had a shriveled left left leg from nerve damage from the bullet he was shot with at point blank range by a Texas policeman a year and a half before he "fought" Ali
to be banned from being posted
even on a thread titled
Muhammad Ali vrs Cleveland Williams (Nov.14.1966)
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Ambling Alp
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 3627
- Joined: 15 Jul 2005, 22:31
Here a few facts:
Cleveland Williams had 4 fights after his operation and before he fought for the title. He won all 4.
After losing in his title shot by a 3rd round ko, he won his next 5. One was a first round ko against Mike Bruce.*
Williams was 33 when he fought for the title. That is younger than the guy he lost to was when 10 years later he later he was fighting Norton the 3rd time, Young,Holmes,Shavers, and Spinks.
*Opinion- Going by the logical "knockdown means everything maxim" (See Sonny Banks or Henry Cooper) Bruce must be great because he once knocked down Joe Frazier early in Frazier's career. That Frazier came back to win the fight is obviously irrelevant as is the case with Banks and Cooper. It's not who wins that is important, it's who scores the first knockdown that means the most.
(In fact, maybe there should be a rule change. Fights should just be stopped after the first knockdown and the fighter who got knocked down automatically loses. Perhaps it should be retroactive. Joe Louis is no longer a world champion because he got knocked down Jim Braddock. The result should be changed to a first round ko win for Braddock.)
Therefore Williams knockout of a great fighter like Bruce is very impressive. Of course knocking out Williams in only 3 rounds in 1966 really must be impressive.
Cleveland Williams had 4 fights after his operation and before he fought for the title. He won all 4.
After losing in his title shot by a 3rd round ko, he won his next 5. One was a first round ko against Mike Bruce.*
Williams was 33 when he fought for the title. That is younger than the guy he lost to was when 10 years later he later he was fighting Norton the 3rd time, Young,Holmes,Shavers, and Spinks.
*Opinion- Going by the logical "knockdown means everything maxim" (See Sonny Banks or Henry Cooper) Bruce must be great because he once knocked down Joe Frazier early in Frazier's career. That Frazier came back to win the fight is obviously irrelevant as is the case with Banks and Cooper. It's not who wins that is important, it's who scores the first knockdown that means the most.
(In fact, maybe there should be a rule change. Fights should just be stopped after the first knockdown and the fighter who got knocked down automatically loses. Perhaps it should be retroactive. Joe Louis is no longer a world champion because he got knocked down Jim Braddock. The result should be changed to a first round ko win for Braddock.)
Therefore Williams knockout of a great fighter like Bruce is very impressive. Of course knocking out Williams in only 3 rounds in 1966 really must be impressive.
Woller wrote:Sometimes strange things happen. Memphis Al Jones knocked Jerry Quarry down twice in one round. Quarry had a near cast iron chin and Jones record is terrible.
Woller
This actually DOES make sense.....Patriots....lost there last game of the season.....strange things do happen. Good champions have bad days. Well except for Rocky I guess. It's too late for him to go back and have a bad day at this point I suppose.
Poor Granberry rarely backs up her 'facts' with evidence.
If she would care to read the despicable Thomas Hauser's auto/biography of Mohammad Ali, she would see an entire section telling the story of Cleve's injuries after the shooting, including a lengthy quote from a conversation between Ali and Jerry Izenberg in which Ali reveals that he knows Cleve's body was a mess and that it would be an easy night's work.
But of course, in Granberry's little mind, this somehow counts as Ali shills not telling the full story.
LOL.
If she would care to read the despicable Thomas Hauser's auto/biography of Mohammad Ali, she would see an entire section telling the story of Cleve's injuries after the shooting, including a lengthy quote from a conversation between Ali and Jerry Izenberg in which Ali reveals that he knows Cleve's body was a mess and that it would be an easy night's work.
But of course, in Granberry's little mind, this somehow counts as Ali shills not telling the full story.
LOL.
Ali fought a physicallly crippled Cleveland Williams.
Ali's "fight" against this physically crippled opponent is touted by the media
(and those whose existence consists of regurgitating the media)
as Ali's greatest performance.
If you have to dredge up a performance against a physically crippled opponent your sales campaign is in SAD shape.
Ali's "fight" against this physically crippled opponent is touted by the media
(and those whose existence consists of regurgitating the media)
as Ali's greatest performance.
If you have to dredge up a performance against a physically crippled opponent your sales campaign is in SAD shape.
granberry wrote:Woller,Woller wrote:Granberry
Stop lying about me.
Woller
stop asking that posters be banned because they post basic facts
about the physical condition of a fighter in a certain fight.
If the Cooney fight was a fix then why would Jimmy Young stand still and allow Cooney to rip half his face off?
I'm still waiting on an answer for this
Yet he managed a few wins along the way even after that...pretty tough hombre overall. I wouldn't want to be the one getting his angst even after his rehab. And a good word for Cleveland Williams is probably overdue in this thread. You call him crippled....when what you mean is "compromised". In other words he wasn't as good as he once was but he was no walk in the park for at least a few other opponents.granberry wrote:Ali fought a physicallly crippled Cleveland Williams.
Ali's "fight" against this physically crippled opponent is touted by the media
(and those whose existence consists of regurgitating the media)
as Ali's greatest performance.
If you have to dredge up a performance against a physically crippled opponent your sales campaign is in SAD shape.
Your granberry character probably aint as good as your terap glory days....but you're still pretty grizzled.
I posted facts on Cleveland Williams' physical condition at the time he fought Ali.Woller wrote:Stop lying about me Granberry.
I want you out of here because you turn any topic into rubbish. You are killing good boxing discussions on this site.
Woller
On this Ali vrs Cleveland Williams thread.
You, woller, wanted me banned for that.
Now you have reiterated that.
I want you banned too.... your a slimeball and youre bringing this forum down... the humour you provide with your boring 'insights' now fails to amuse me. Go away. At least save what dignity you have left.granberry wrote:I posted facts on Cleveland Williams' physical condition at the time he fought Ali.Woller wrote:Stop lying about me Granberry.
I want you out of here because you turn any topic into rubbish. You are killing good boxing discussions on this site.
Woller
On this Ali vrs Cleveland Williams thread.
You, woller, wanted me banned for that.
Now you have reiterated that.
Which isnt much.
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Collins2000
- Heavyweight
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