PETER MAHER

[realgonecat]

I take your post(s) with a grain of salt, Jimmy.

You can take them with a shot of whisky, granberry. Don't know you from Adam do it makes no never mind to me. But hello, anyway, let's try not to get overly testy on this, okay?

What in the world does Ken Burns' crap on baseball

It sure was crap.

(or any other subject) have to do with the research of a genuine boxing specialist and researcher like donnellon?

What genuine whatever are you, my friend? Impress me with the quality of your reasoning not with the posturing of self-importance. It's an example of how "historians" can many times misread the research material based upon predisposition. Sometimes it's because they have over-romantic notions of whatever they choose to study, and sometimes it's because they are second rate thinkers looking for a field where they can feign expertise on the cheap, quite often just by declaration and name dropping or list making, and sometimes it's a little of all those things. I know most of the tell-tale droppings of such folks.

You insistence that McCoy was a middleweight is overdone.

I am thinking the insistence Maher was a quality heavy is what's overdone. McCoy was a middleweight, because last time I checked 163 pounds was middleweight. Maher was a heavy by the standards of that time, and is recorded as such on box rec.

McCoy fought Jim Corbett, Tom Sharkey, Gus Ruhlin, Joe Goddard, Choynski many times, etc etc.

Any literate person can just look at the records and tell that. Just posting lists doesn't make your argument, granberry. McCoy LOST to Sharkey, Corbett, Root, because in the end, they were too good for him, too big, too strong. Choynski's career is marred by unbelievable wins and shocking losses, making me think this guy was on the fix most of the time, but how unfair of me to suggest that McCoy could ever be involved in shady dealings! LOL . Ruhlin and Goddard were competent journeyman, one step up from tomato can, not much different than Jones beating Ruiz.

Thanks for the post, granberry.

[granberry]

realgonecat,

I notice you did not comment on

my comment that your claimed 'journalism' background certainly is in evidence in your posts here,

which perfectly illustrate the smugness and glibness of the typical clueless media blowhard.

[raylawpc]

I am thinking the insistence Maher was a quality heavy is what's overdone. McCoy was a middleweight, because last time I checked 163 pounds was middleweight. Maher was a heavy by the standards of that time, and is recorded as such on box rec.

The middleweight limit is 160 lbs. now, but 158 lbs. in those days, if I recall correctly.

Although I have little in my files on Kid McCoy, I recall that he generally scaled 165 to 175 when he fought heavyweights. (My recollection comes from times I encountered stories about him when researching other topics - so I could be incorrect. But I think I'm right.)

Update: I found an account of the Sharkey-McCoy fight in the Brooklyn Eagle and it announced McCoy's weight at 156.

[Cap]

No real arguments here. Peter Maher was a big-punching slugger with a slightly less than average chin. Almost the Earnie Shavers of his day at his peak. You had to step clear of his haymakers no matter who you were. A good boxer could do that and then nail him. It's difficult to take everything written in those days as gospel. Boxing, like baseball or almost any spectator sport, could be dirty as gamblers were heavily involved. Prize fighters made most of their money on side-bets, so the temptation to cheat was certainly there.

As power is almost the last thing to go, Maher's punch was still repected even after he was reduced to the status of "opponent". This was demonstrated in the Munroe fight. Jack was a young, powerful rookie who never really took boxing seriously. The money looked good and he could impress his buddies. Maher was brought in to pad Munroe's record with a recognizable name. The Irishman got in a good punch or two, one at the back of the head, but the younger man weathered the storm and gradually wore him down with hard punches to the body and the occasional clip on the chin. Maher went down in the 4th, tried hard to rise, but was counted out by referee Jack McGuigan.

This victory over Maher resulted in offers coming in to Munroe from Kid Carter, Marvin Hart, Joe Choynski, Jack Root, Hank Griffin and Philadelphia Jack O'Brien. The Criterion A.C. of Boston suggested Sandy Ferguson as an opponent.

At his peak, Maher was a tough opponent, but he was only a gate-keeper, an obstacle between other contenders and the champion. He just didn't have all the tools to win the title.

Cap

[granberry]

Donnellon wrote:

Maher was one of the unluckiest, forgotten and underated fighters of all-time. As an amateur he lost to a touring Peter Jackson and from then to the turn of the century had hundreds of fights losing only to Goddard and Fitz.

[kikibalt]

Peter Maher...1898

[donnellon]

Cap's post is reasonable in all its points but perhaps one, Maher was not a haymaker type of puncher in the sense that his punches were not wild swings but short, sharp and fast left and right hits. I know what a haymaker is having spent my youth in the hay fields!
Again an intellegent reasonable post and may I say the much maligned Granberry has shown an extensive knowledge of this subject and furthermore participated in an extremely positive way to the examination of the "famous" fight scene photo by himself, Cap, Klompton, Raylawpc and myself. What a good boxing thread should be IMO dispite some minor ground to air fire. Also Kikibalt's images add to the mix.

[granberry]

. . . You had to step clear of his haymakers . . .

Your use of the word "haymaker" is typical of the postings on these internet boxing sites, where a TOTAL ignorance of the most basic technical aspects of the sport prevails.

Joe Gans said Maher had the best and most devastating straight right hand of any fighter.

That was in an extensive interview on the subject of straight punching where Gans strongly recommended straight punching, and then gave numerous and very specific evaluations of well known fighters who always used straight punches as well as examples of those who didn't, to various degrees.

[Collins2000]

I love granberry

[granberry]

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec, slithers around boxrec posting juvenile attempts at snipes at other poster's posts.

collins has NEVER made a post on the topic of boxing.

collins' stinking up of threads on boxrec is enabled and encouraged by boxrec's so-called 'moderator,' buzz.

A useless maggot like collins would have been kicked off any other internet site long ago.

[Goodnight, Irene]

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec, slithers around boxrec posting juvenile attempts at snipes at other poster's posts.

collins has NEVER made a post on the topic of boxing.

collins' stinking up of threads on boxrec is enabled and encouraged by boxrec's so-called 'moderator,' buzz.

A useless maggot like collins would have been kicked off any other internet site long ago.

He's like an insult-bot with a limited rotation of pre-determined attacks

[Collins2000]

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec, slithers around boxrec posting juvenile attempts at snipes at other poster's posts.

collins has NEVER made a post on the topic of boxing.

collins' stinking up of threads on boxrec is enabled and encouraged by boxrec's so-called 'moderator,' buzz.

A useless maggot like collins would have been kicked off any other internet site long ago.

He's like an insult-bot with a limited rotation of pre-determined attacks

I blame Boxbuzz, he is the real criminal mastermind behind all this and more.

LOL
.

[Collins2000]

Your thread, terap?

[BoxBuzz]

collins, the poisonous feminine snake of boxrec, slithers around boxrec posting juvenile attempts at snipes at other poster's posts.

collins has NEVER made a post on the topic of boxing.

collins' stinking up of threads on boxrec is enabled and encouraged by boxrec's so-called 'moderator,' buzz.

A useless maggot like collins would have been kicked off any other internet site long ago.

He's like an insult-bot with a limited rotation of pre-determined attacks

I blame Boxbuzz, he is the real criminal mastermind behind all this and more.

LOL
.

At least we agree on who to blame.