Trainers Dont Get Enough Respect Sometimes

[Jamel]

I was talking to coach Ron Simms and he made a good point to me that some coaches dont get enough respect sometimes once their fight goes pro like for example Amir Khan was knocked out and after that ONE defeat they want to fire his trainer who has trained him since his amateur days and now they're talking about doing the same deal with Pavliks team who trainer took him in as a young kid. I know that the game is different from amateur to pros but I feel some boxers need to stop listening to people outside the circle and show some more respect for the ones who got them to the top to begin with. What do you guys think?

[Kolya]

Jack Loew told Kelly before round 12 "Don't worry, we still have the championships." He needs to be fired for that alone. And Amir's trainer that was let go was a Cuban who had been brought on recently to work with him.

[boxmel]

The pros is all about money - it's a business not a sport. If a boxer's management wants another coach for his investment, he will get one. If a boxer wants to please his management, and continue to fight and get paid, he will take whatever coach is given to him. It is rare that an original coach stays with a boxer from the amateurs to pro. The fact that Andre Berto has his original coach is rare.

[thenalo]

andre ward has had the same trainer also, hasn't he? To my knowledge he is still with his god-father virgil hunter ever since the amateurs.

[squarering]

Everyone is right when your winning and everyone is a scewup when you don't. Any one of the best trainers out here can mess up, scew up, make mistakes, and make bad calls, They do it all the time, but if the fight is still winning,,,,then the trainer must be a guineuss to use all those mistakes so perfectly. Fighters win, everyone happy, fighters loose everyone is at fault.

[Dennis]

Jack Loew was imploring Kelly to use his double jab and to throw punches. Kelly said he just couldn't get his punches off. Pavlik needed to be busy to win and he wasn't. I'm not sure what else Loew could have done. Hopkins boxed brilliantly, got under Pavlik's skin and got Pavlik out of his normal mode. Kudos to Hopkins!

[boxmel]

Yes - Andre Ward is still with Virgil. However, he is not a high-profile, TV boxer either.

[Dennis]

Yes - Andre Ward is still with Virgil. However, he is not a high-profile, TV boxer either.

Not yet, but he will be soon.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

The pros is all about money - it's a business not a sport. If a boxer's management wants another coach for his investment, he will get one. If a boxer wants to please his management, and continue to fight and get paid, he will take whatever coach is given to him. It is rare that an original coach stays with a boxer from the amateurs to pro. The fact that Andre Berto has his original coach is rare.

It's really sad that this is a reality. This is a sport where trainers/coaches and boxers form a closer bond more than any other sport I've been involved with. After being with the same coach for 5 years, my son is just like another son with his coach and his teammates (coach's son) are just like my sons. Our relationship goes beyond boxing and from what I've read on this forum a lot of elite amateurs have the same bond with their coaches. It's just weird to hear how this happens again and again even though a boxer walks in a gym from day one with zero boxing skills and the same coach, who is 100% responsible for getting them to a point where they are actually making a living, gets replaced like it's not big deal. Does anyone know of any examples where a pro, who has been with a coach since the amateur days, gets rid of that coach and tries another - only to come back to the coach that groomed him as youngster originally? Just curious.

[boxmel]

Not yet, but he will be soon.

Well - I hope Andre becomes a well-known, often-seen superstar before I die, probably within the next 20 years.

Does anyone know of any examples where a pro, who has been with a coach since the amateur days, gets rid of that coach and tries another - only to come back to the coach that groomed him as youngster originally?

Just curious.

Shane Mosley is one; Jermaine Taylor came back to Ozell Nelson; Diego Corralles came back to his stepdad - there are probably more.

[Jamel]

yea its messed up DC but like you said its a reality and it mainly comes down to the mighty green dollar...

[Dennis]

Unfortunately it is sometimes just a psychological game. Instead of getting the boxer to realize that he has some flaws that need to be fixed, the promoter/manager blame it on the trainer.

[boxmel]

Unfortunately it is sometimes just a psychological game. Instead of getting the boxer to realize that he has some flaws that need to be fixed, the promoter/manager blame it on the trainer.

Or they have a favorite trainer they would rather pay - or who does what they're told - or who doesn't get as much as the boxer's trainer wants - or - or - or......

[Dennis]

Yes, there are tons of reasons.

[ChinChecka]

Jeff Lacy, Antonio Tarver, & Roy Jones

[Jamel]

Jeff Lacy, Antonio Tarver, & Roy Jones

Yup lets not forget that Sugar Shane dropped his pops at one time

[squarering]

It was strange but I was in Omaha at the Nat GG and walked outside to just get a lay of the land. I sat on a wall and overheard a conversation between Ray Rogers and someone else getting the news that Jermain was going with Manny. I have to say that being in that invirement with my fighter and respecting Jermain as much as I did, it hurt to hear him toss Ozell aside for Manny. I think Ozell was there with Johnathan Nelson if I am not mistaken. Sometimes a new voice is needed in a corner but once that bond of loyalty is broken, it just seems like it is one more issue that will eventually surface and play out in a boxers head. The coach sees it as, me and my boxer against the world, against all odds, going to the top as a team they way we have been for years,, since it all began. The boxer sees it as, I need a bigger name now, You can not handle this job, this is different and although you have gotten the job done up to this point, although you done everything possibly to help me when no one else could or would, although you knew enough to take a poor little kid from the getto that did not even know how to stand, and take him to the Olympics and make him world champion, you are not good enough to keep it going, you can not do the job and I need someone who's name is used more in conjunction with pro boxing and champions. I have to do what is right for me, me ,me.
But in a case like Ozell and Jermain, the years, the bond and the loyalty went deeper than even Jermain understood. At least he saw it once he grew up. If you agree that Pavliv Talyor II was a much closer fight that T P I, and you agree that the out come of P T I could have played a role in PT II, you have to ask if things would have been different. Whatever would have happened, it would have gone down like it was meant to and IMO Pavlic vs Taylor I , is an example of a boxer tempting fate and tinkering with destiny.

[boxmel]

I sat on a wall and overheard a conversation between Ray Rogers and someone else getting the news that Jermain was going with Manny. I have to say that being in that invirement with my fighter and respecting Jermain as much as I did, it hurt to hear him toss Ozell aside for Manny.

Do you remember when Jermain tossed Ozell aside for Pat Burns? That was at the very beginning and I never understood that because Ozell can coach circles around Burns. I had even heard that Ozell's contract stated that all he could do is carry the spit bucket and had to keep his mouth shut. The love Ozell has for Jemain has outlasted every bump in the road.

[Dennis]

It was strange but I was in Omaha at the Nat GG and walked outside to just get a lay of the land. I sat on a wall and overheard a conversation between Ray Rogers and someone else getting the news that Jermain was going with Manny. I have to say that being in that invirement with my fighter and respecting Jermain as much as I did, it hurt to hear him toss Ozell aside for Manny. I think Ozell was there with Johnathan Nelson if I am not mistaken. Sometimes a new voice is needed in a corner but once that bond of loyalty is broken, it just seems like it is one more issue that will eventually surface and play out in a boxers head. The coach sees it as, me and my boxer against the world, against all odds, going to the top as a team they way we have been for years,, since it all began. The boxer sees it as, I need a bigger name now, You can not handle this job, this is different and although you have gotten the job done up to this point, although you done everything possibly to help me when no one else could or would, although you knew enough to take a poor little kid from the getto that did not even know how to stand, and take him to the Olympics and make him world champion, you are not good enough to keep it going, you can not do the job and I need someone who's name is used more in conjunction with pro boxing and champions. I have to do what is right for me, me ,me.
But in a case like Ozell and Jermain, the years, the bond and the loyalty went deeper than even Jermain understood. At least he saw it once he grew up. If you agree that Pavliv Talyor II was a much closer fight that T P I, and you agree that the out come of P T I could have played a role in PT II, you have to ask if things would have been different. Whatever would have happened, it would have gone down like it was meant to and IMO Pavlic vs Taylor I , is an example of a boxer tempting fate and tinkering with destiny.

I think Taylor made a huge mistake. Many boxers want to get a new coach rather than listen to the old coach and actually work on correcting the flaws that the coach points out.

[squarering]

I would almost say that any decent trainer can help almost any boxer with at least one part of thiner game. But one part of it is just the fact that it is a new voice. Even if it is saying the same things. One trainer says for years '' stay in there, don't be so quick to jump out, bend your knees and then counter" Another says sit down on your punches and stand in to trade. But a boxer can hear two totally different things.

[Dennis]

I would almost say that any decent trainer can help almost any boxer with at least one part of thiner game. But one part of it is just the fact that it is a new voice. Even if it is saying the same things. One trainer says for years '' stay in there, don't be so quick to jump out, bend your knees and then counter" Another says sit down on your punches and stand in to trade. But a boxer can hear two totally different things.

Definitely true. Sometimes boxers can't hear in mono, but can hear when it is in stereo.

[hurricanemitch14]

Sometimes trainers get to much credit...i don't how many times ive seen a fighter make it big then fire his coach for manny steward...he's a great coach but not for everyone...taylor has looked bad almost every outing with steward...kermit cintron looed exactly th esame in his rematch with margarito. Whoever ur comfortable with should decide.

[squarering]

This is why the coach that brought the kid up through everything and looked out for every need including making sure he passed his English exam, should take the role of manager/trainer. If your boxer needs someone new in the corner you bring him in and you are not left sitting in the cheap seats. You just have to put your ego in check and look out for the boxers best interest as you have done all along. If it works you all win, if it doesn't try someone else or go back to square one like the old days as in Jermain & Ozell

[Dennis]

Hal - not everyone can handle the job of manager. There are many amateur coaches that don't have a clue about how to manage a pro boxer's career. They don't have the skills or knowledge to deal with promoters, sponsors, match-makers, TV networks, marketing people, etc. They don't know how to read contracts or understand other legal documents. Finally, many aren't prepared to negotiate with other people including attorneys. You and I are prepared for it. I have been an attorney handling negotiations and litigation for over 15 years, while you have been living with a lawyer for even longer. You may not be an attorney, but you did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

[scottmallon]

Trainers are in effect teachers and IMO don't get nearly enough credit when their fighter turns out to be good and get too much blame when they lose. A trainer can guide and provide the foundation, and strategy, but in the end, he's not in the ring.