USA Boxing Hires High Performance Director

[boxmel]

Hopefully, DeLaHoya is helping out with some money. USAB sure could use a couple of million

Wish we knew - I just LOVE the open communication from USAB! D How would you suggest that kind of money be used IF it were given?

[Dennis]

Host more clinics for coaches and boxers and keep the cost extremely low. These would not all need to be done at Colo Springs. They could host one in NY - set it up through one of the universities. Another could be done down in Georgia or Florida. Another in Marquette, MI. Another in Brownsville, TX. Another on the west coast - probably somewhere in California. Of course one in Colorado Springs.

They could provide housing and transportation money for the U.S. Championships. More international trips. Money to LBC's to fund local clinics - materials like books, videos, etc. Money to LBC's to buy ESS so everyone can experience this type of scoring at the local level and get used to it as a novice or junior boxer and before they get to the nationals.

There are a lot more ideas if the money ever becomes available.

[boxmel]

More international trips

International trips are already funded by the USOC. Our Events Department just needs to get them "booked."

Host more clinics for coaches

Since each LBC is supposed to have ongoing clinics - how about maybe having clinics available so coaches could get their Level 3 and 4 certifications in their area? Or at least find out how and start the process?

They could provide housing and transportation money for the U.S. Championships.

Do you know that we are the only sport who does this? We are also thei sport with the cheapest registration fees.

Money to LBC's to fund local clinics- materials like books, videos, etc.-

As an official's clinician, I don't see a monetary need - maybe for the coaches. There aren't any books on officiating; don't need a video for a new officials certification (since they haven't a clue).

Money to LBC's to buy ESS

Most definitely - to me this is the #1 priority for spending free money - WHEN AIBA gets the system fixed/upgraded/revamped - whatever they are doing. Or if we get a less expensive, user-friendly system for the USA (Brazilian system comes to mind).

[Dennis]

Since each LBC is supposed to have ongoing clinics - how about maybe having clinics available so coaches could get their Level 3 and 4 certifications in their area? Or at least find out how and start the process?

Do you know that we are the only sport who does this? We are also thei sport with the cheapest registration fees.

As an official's clinician, I don't see a monetary need - maybe for the coaches. There aren't any books on officiating; don't need a video for a new officials certification (since they haven't a clue).

Money to LBC's to buy ESS

Most definitely - to me this is the #1 priority for spending free money - WHEN AIBA gets the system fixed/upgraded/revamped - whatever they are doing. Or if we get a less expensive, user-friendly system for the USA (Brazilian system comes to mind).

Mel - I was talking about hosting more coaches clinics at the national level to make our program better. Get more level 3 and 4 coaches. Have more coaches that understand what it takes to develop elite level boxers.

I think there are other sports that provide funding, housing, transportation, etc. If not, then it just shows how poor the kids are and how much the boxing gyms struggle to find funding. If fund raising club shows regularly had crowds of 1,000+, then there would be more money in our sport.

Officials clinics - show them a video that demonstrates what is meant by a "scoring blow" and each of the "fouls". It could be a tutorial on how to judge or how to referee. They could have other demonstration videos. They don't need to be long, but I think extra materials could really help with officiating and coaching. Demonstrations on the use of the ESS for coaches, boxers and officials. Lets get everyone to improve.

[boxmel]

Mel - I was talking about hosting more coaches clinics at the national level to make our program better. Get more level 3 and 4 coaches. Have more coaches that understand what it takes to develop elite level boxers.

But there isn't any reason why these clinics couldn't be held around the country and not just in COS, right? Might make it easier to get to those coaches who have a hard time traveling due to work, etc.

I think there are other sports that provide funding, housing, transportation, etc. If not, then it just shows how poor the kids are and how much the boxing gyms struggle to find funding.

Those boxers qualifing for the U.S. Championships or the National JOs usually get housing and food. Most regional teams seem to be able to get transportation; I do know that Hawaii is usually unable to send a full team due to lack of money.

Officials clinics - show them a video that demonstrates what is meant by a "scoring blow" and each of the "fouls".

Scoring blows makes sense; showing the fouls to brand new people who, if ever, won't be referring for 8 months or more doesn't make sense. I spend very little time on referring when I give a newbie clinic.

It could be a tutorial on how to judge

I always give a mini tutorial on timekeeping and judging when I give a clinic. You really don't have time for much else. Now, if you are talking about COOs giving ongoing training clinics, then your suggestions make sense. I don't know many LBCs, if any, who do that. Mine certainly doesn't. All OJT.

Demonstrations on the use of the ESS for coaches, boxers and officials

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We used to do this at the U.S. Championships. Those coaches and boxers who got to use the system definitely had a better appreciate for the judges. D When we finally get around to having a system for the LBCs, they will be provided training by the techs. There is no point on local demonstrations of the system when you don't have one.

[Dennis]

Demonstrations on the ESS does make sense whether the LBC's have one or not. Coaches and boxers need to understand how they work and what scores and what doesn't.

[boxmel]

Demonstrations on the ESS does make sense whether the LBC's have one or not. Coaches and boxers need to understand how they work and what scores and what doesn't.

How would you demonstrate the ESS if you don't have one to demonstrate on? Just curious.

[Dennis]

Demonstrations on the ESS does make sense whether the LBC's have one or not. Coaches and boxers need to understand how they work and what scores and what doesn't.

How would you demonstrate the ESS if you don't have one to demonstrate on? Just curious.

You were talking about USA Boxing spending money. I thought they could bring one of theirs or spend some money so the LBC's each have one or at least each Region could have one. I think they should make it so the ESS can run on any modern laptop with some inexpensive software and inexpensive controllers for each judge. That would keep the cost down and LBC's could own several. Get the cost low enough and officials could buy their own. I have a set of clickers. Each judge would have their own controller and then a few officials would have to own the software and a laptop. I could buy my own controller for the ESS. I have a laptop and could get the software.

[boxmel]

I thought they could bring one of theirs

Remember - AIBA is changing things so bringing the current system is not a good idea.

or spend some money so the LBC's each have one or at least each Region could have one.

As I said before, once AIBA decides what is going to be used and no more changes are made, I am sure USAB will have them available. However, the current system from AIBA runs around $3,000 and laptops are somewhere around $1,000 (you need sufficient memory) so the cost to the LBCs will be around $4,000 each. No, they can't get them any cheaper - I've already asked.

I think they should make it so the ESS can run on any modern laptop

That's what it's always been run on.

with some inexpensive software

You'll have to talk to AIBA about that. USAB is not going to put out the money just to make software for use in the US. Our last, home-made system, cost around $80,000 to produce.

and inexpensive controllers for each judge.

The 5 keypads always come with the system and are part of the total cost.

Get the cost low enough

Again, you'll have to take this up with AIBA.

and officials could buy their own.

And pay for any software updates.

Each judge would have their own controller

They are not sold separately.

and then a few officials would have to own the software and a laptop.

The LBC should own the system and have a few officials trained to run it. You would definitely have to have a minimum of 6 officials at every local show (3 judges, timekeeper, ref and tech) if you were going to use the system there; and a minimum of 9 officials at tournaments (5 judges, ref, timekeeper and tech) if only using one ring.

I wouldn't want to use any laptop that has other files or software on it other than the scoring software. The chances of having it crash would increase. Speaking from experience, there needs to be a dedicated laptop for each system.

[Dennis]

Mel I think you would have to have more than 9 officials for a tournament. When using ESS I though you needed to have 3 judges using the clickers just in case the system crashed. The clicker judges scoring only gets used if, and only if, the ESS crashes.
$3,000 per system is way too high. They need to get that price down a lot so that there can be multiple systems available in each LBC. That way they can be used at local club shows too (obviously not every show unless the price comes down to a couple hundred dollars each).

[boxmel]

Mel I think you would have to have more than 9 officials for a tournament. When using ESS I though you needed to have 3 judges using the clickers just in case the system crashed.

AIBA has done away with the paper scoring as of the first of the year.

$3,000 per system is way too high. They need to get that price down a lot so that there can be multiple systems available in each LBC.

$3,000 per system is what the going price is and I don't see it coming down. I'm sure AIBA is making money from the sales.

[Dennis]

The new system hopefully will be less complicated (don't need to decide if 3 or more hit the button within a second of each other) and therefore less expensive. Let's hope.
They still had paper scoring in 2008 as I saw some paper scoring decisions in international competitions when the ESS crashed. If they didn't have extra judges using clickers, then did the judges just guess and say I think the red corner won?

[boxmel]

The new system hopefully will be less complicated (don't need to decide if 3 or more hit the button within a second of each other) and therefore less expensive.

I wouldn't bet on it. The less or more of complications has nothing to do with the price.

They still had paper scoring in 2008 as I saw some paper scoring decisions in international competitions when the ESS crashed.

The no paper scoring starts next year. When I asked how this was going to work, in the event the computer crashed, I was told that the judges would be given scorecards and clickers to continue scoring.

[Dennis]

The new system hopefully will be less complicated (don't need to decide if 3 or more hit the button within a second of each other) and therefore less expensive.

I wouldn't bet on it. The less or more of complications has nothing to do with the price.

They still had paper scoring in 2008 as I saw some paper scoring decisions in international competitions when the ESS crashed.

The no paper scoring starts next year. When I asked how this was going to work, in the event the computer crashed, I was told that the judges would be given scorecards and clickers to continue scoring.

What about the score tallies up to that point? What happens if it isn't known right away? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. If the clickers are good enough as a back-up, why don't we just use them for all bouts? They are inexpensive, easy to use, not complicated and they don't need an extra technician just to operate them. Every official can own their own set of clickers.

[boxmel]

If the clickers are good enough as a back-up, why don't we just use them for all bouts? They are inexpensive, easy to use, not complicated and they don't need an extra technician just to operate them.

Because USAB has mandated that the ESS will be used at all their national tournaments: Championships, JOs, Womens, U-19 basically so the boxers will get used to that type of scoring.

Every official can own their own set of clickers.

Every official should already own their own set of clickers.

[Dennis]

My point exactly. Clickers are the answer. LOL.

[Trained By CHAD]

Clickers vs Computer? Its simply a conflict of mechanics.

In sport psychology there are four items to attribute an out come. Skill, effort, luck and powerful others. As a coach I ALWAYS encourage my athletes to take on responsibility of their skills and their efforts and not use luck and powerful others as an excuse. To give reason for clickers vs computer lays the responsibility on the mechanism (powerful others) and does not give the official the chance to take ownership of the responsibility. It allows the judge a back door excuse. The only responsibility of the judge is to use their observation ‘skills’ and focused ‘effort’ to view the match. When a clean, unobstructed shot is landed the judge makes note of it with a tool (clicker or button). “Now it’s a new moment. Now what am I looking for?”, and the game goes on.

They are responsible for their duties. Someone else (or the computer) will be responsible for the total and calculating the final judgement.

if we want to see more accuracy in scoring then we also get to teach ALL of our coaches, from the newbie volunteer all the way up to international coaches, where the prime scoring area in the ring is and teach them where the athletes get to be in the ring for scoring advantage and where to be in the ring for defensive positioning. Then judges will see what they see, scoring accordingly and the domestic athletes will get practice with international styles of boxing. Other countries have become masters of positioning. The United States is a definitive athletic superpower. There is no good reason why we can’t medal at international amateur boxing.

[boxmel]

Good points. How many USA Boxing amateurs have you trained? And we do try to instruct all coaches on the best ring positioning for their boxers. They either listen and learn - or they don't.

[squarering]

aaaaaaaAAAAAAAHHHHHHHMMMMMMMMMeeeeeeennnnn

[squarering]

Barry Hunter was out there helping with the camp and said he was impressed with Bartkowski.

[boxmel]

Barry Hunter was out there helping with the camp and said he was impressed with Bartkowski.

Tell Barry I said hello next time you see him. 8) Any reason why we could not have used Bartkowski through the USOC instead of hiring him?

[Trained By CHAD]

Good points. How many USA Boxing amateurs have you trained? And we do try to instruct all coaches on the best ring positioning for their boxers. They either listen and learn - or they don't.

i've been a registered boxing coach for over 18 years in Ontario, Canada and in Southern Cali LBC. when i lived in ontario i spent three years going back and forth to detroit and coaching at adams butzel rec center. before that it was over a decade working with amateurs in canada, where i have a partial level four coaching status (i have about 10 of 20 "tasks" completed. strength, nutrition, sport psych for coaches, sport psych for athletes, sport systems, energy sytems, ect.). then, three years ago i moved to los angeles where i've trained a few amateur boxers out of an mma gym (where i was working at the time) but it was not the appropriate environment to train dedicated boxers so i suggested they go to a nearby gym.

Canada level 4 coach, level 1 official
USA Boxing level 1 coach, level 1 official (they told me that my level 2 coaching was to come back the year later and retake the same workshop. i decided to do the level 1 officials instead to make myself more well rounded)


mel, i met you about three years ago at the regional show here in LA. i was looking for information to become registered and you helped me out. we talked about where your husband grew up, and sylvio from sarnia. when i was reading through these posts i recognized you and thought i would join some of the conversations. if what i say out here helps at all, then great. if people disagree, i'm fine with that too.

[boxmel]

mel, i met you about three years ago at the regional show here in LA. i was looking for information to become registered and you helped me out. we talked about where your husband grew up, and sylvio from sarnia.

Ahhhh - thanks for reminding me. Yes, we did. 8) I don't think I've seen you at any shows in the past three years, though???

when i was reading through these posts i recognized you and thought i would join some of the conversations.

Glad you did. And welcome.

[Trained By CHAD]

i've been to a few shows here and there. acted as a judge at two shows. i've been traveling all over the USA the last year as a site lead for a health screening company. i go into a new job everyday, working with a new local staff team. i test and educate people on their results and tell them how to improve their health. its a great job. i get to travel all over, sometimes three states a week. i love the opportunity to help people and create something new everyday. while i was traveling i was fortunate enough to stop by the Olympic Training Center and take a tour. it was very motivating and set me back on track to my boxing roots. presently i am, back in the so cal lbc. i recently arrived back in Hollywood to work on a couple of projects. i've casually looked for gyms to assist with amateur boxers. i may walk into the glendale PAL next week and offer to volunteer a couple of nights a week.

i went to your site to check out the schedule. i might be able to make it to the silver gloves in carson next weekend. will you be there?

[boxmel]

i've been to a few shows here and there. acted as a judge at two shows.

You got certified as an official? Did not know that!!! How long ago?

Yes, will be at the State Silver Gloves. Please come find me as I've forgotten what you look like.