Cross Over Competitors

[Expug]

Wasnt Vinnie Maddalone Pitching in the minor leagues when he entered a toughman competition than became a pro?

[generic screen name]

Wasnt Vinnie Maddalone Pitching in the minor leagues when he entered a toughman competition than became a pro?

Thank god he wasn't a hitter, He would get beaned all the time cuz he hardly moves his head.

[HomicideHenry]

Few of LaMar Clark's opponents were wrestlers, such as "Eric The Great".

Archie Moore fought a few wrestlers other than DiBiase too, while he was boxing as the Light Heavyweight champ and Heavyweight contender.

[Robinson]

I dont know if these have been mentioned....

Marvin Eastman
Oleg tacktarov
Karl Gotch
Don Wilson
Maurice smith
Randall Cobb
Joe Lewis
Lucia Ryker
Kathy Long
Don Frye
Travis Fulton
Kevin Rosier
Zane Frazier
Marco Ruas
Tra Telligman
Laverne Clark
Melton Bowen
Vitali Klitschko
Matt Skelton
Ray Mercer
Frans Botha
James Warring
Dolph Lundgren
Chris Lytle
Vitor Belfort
Anderson Silva
Tosca Petridis
Sam Soliman
Nathan Briggs
Simon Sweete
Hiriwa Ti Rangi

Thats all I can think of now
I believe all have dabbled in boxing as well as their other sports
or trades.

[HomicideHenry]

..........Robinson, you compiled a damn good list man!

I should also add Art Jimmerson to the list, as he was one of the first boxers to ever step foot into the 'Octagon', unfortunately he lost in the first round to Royce Gracie.

[jrow72]

Ricco Rodriguez, former UFC HW champ.

[Robinson]

..........Robinson, you compiled a damn good list man!

I should also add Art Jimmerson to the list, as he was one of the first boxers to ever step foot into the 'Octagon', unfortunately he lost in the first round to Royce Gracie.

He also fought Don Wilson in a boxer v kick boxer match..

[Robinson]

Eric Esch.
Mark Hunt
Yosuke Nishijima
Pat Smith
Phil Baroni (?) not sure if he had a pro boxing fight or not..

[HomicideHenry]

Phil Baroni (?) not sure if he had a pro boxing fight or not..

The New York Bad Ass, to best of my knowledge, never had a pro boxing match, but was one of the "elite" Toughman contest fighters, before he quit. I recall one match he had, and was DQ'd for kicking his opponent who was winning. Didnt hear nothing about him for years after that, until I saw him on a UFC card, he knocked his opponent out rather easily.

[HomicideHenry]

Trevor Berbick fought in a shoot fight against some Judo/Wrestler once, in what was one of the worst displays of courage I ever seen. Berbick literally ran out of the ring, cus his opponent wouldn't stop kicking him.

[Expug]

Jens Pulver
Jeff Curran
Both have had a few pro boxing matches.
Marcus Davis was a pro boxer before mma.

Incidently, Nishijima who you mentioned Kym, was absolutely annihalated by Cyborg .
Nishijima was a cruiserweight champ . I dont think he did much in terms of grappling training and was beaten down badly.
Its on youtube.

[Robinson]

Berbick fought Takada in what was supposed to be a 'worked' pro wrestling
match/ What happened was the Japanese turned it into a stiff match
essentially betraying the original deal, hence Berbicks reaction to being leg
kicked.

It was a typical clear cut betrayal by Takada and the pro wrestling wankers.
Even in his 'MMA' career Takada mostly fought works....

[jrow72]

Don't forget the infamous Ray Mercer vs Kimbo. Alonzo Spellman and Johnny Morton have also competed in mma.

[Robinson]

And we can not forget Jeremy Williams.

[HomicideHenry]

I think, to the best of my knowledge, the first huge match between two men of varying skills in different sports was John L. Sullivan and his future trainer and champion wrestler of America William Muldoon. The fight was held in Boston, and the rules were simple enough: Muldoon would wrestle, Sullivan would box, and it would be a fight to the finish.

All was well, until the bell rang and Sullivan sprang after Muldoon. The champion grappler took the Boston Strong Boy and threw him down to the canvas. The crowd in Boston went insane, and stormed the ring due to their idol having fell to the feet of Muldoon. The fight was called off.

Few years later, down the road, Richard Kyle Fox announced that the greatest boxer in America wasnt Sullivan but Jake Kilrain, a young man whose skills as a wrestler won him many fights. Sullivan, weak from the bottle, was forced to take Muldoon up as his trainer. The relationship was an ugly one, but Muldoon did his job, and Sullivan won his greatest victory.

Unfortunately for Muldoon, Sullivan gave the man no credit and the friendship ended. A couple of years later, after Fitzsimmons beat Corbett for the title, Sullivan attempted a comeback and asked Muldoon to train him again, and the champion wrestler told him to fornicate off. Sullivan-Fitzsimmons almost happened, though, until the authorities broke in and disbanded the fight from happening.

It must be also noted that Muldoon would later train legendary champ Gene Tunney, and was also apart of the New York Boxing Commission for several years. Unfortunately, Muldoon was one of the few men responsible for not allowing the Dempsey-Wills fight from happening. He also was in the training camp of Jim Jeffries, when he attempted a comeback against Jack Johnson. Jeffries apparently grew tired of Muldoon's constant rants of "You must win for the white race!", and was irritated with the legendary ex wrestling champion to such an extent he would often hide out in his room, rather than listen to Muldoon.

[HomicideHenry]

No-holds-barred events reportedly took place in the late 1800s when wrestlers representing a huge range of fighting styles including various catch wrestling styles, Greco-Roman wrestling and many others met in tournaments and music-hall challenge matches throughout Europe. The first major encounter between a boxer and a wrestler in modern times took place in 1887 when John L. Sullivan, then heavyweight world boxing champion, entered the ring with his trainer, Greco-Roman wrestling champion William Muldoon, and was slammed to the mat in two minutes. The next publicized encounter occurred in the late 1890s when future heavyweight boxing champion Bob Fitzsimmons took on European Greco-Roman wrestling champion Ernest Roeber. Reportedly, Roeber suffered a fractured cheekbone in this bout, but was able to get Fitzsimmons down on the mat, where he applied an armlock and made the boxer submit. In 1936, heavyweight boxing contender Kingfish Levinsky and veteran professional wrestler Ray Steele competed in a mixed match, which Steele won in 35 seconds.

^^^Got this off an MMA site

[HomicideHenry]

Dr. Death Steve Williams, who competed as a professional wrestler for many years, competed in K-1 for a while. He was also the favorite in the WWE's only shoot tournament "Brawl For All", but lost in the finals to Bart Gunn. Gunn would later get KO'd against Butterbean. I believe Williams may have boxed at one time, but I am not certain. Steve Williams, unfortunately, wasn't the success in legit shoots as he was in rasslin'.

[Robinson]

From what I have read some Battle Royales were essentially a pure
form of MMA in any case.

I have read that French sailors during the 19th and early 20th centrury
would fight other sailors in mixed matches...usually boxing vs Savate.

The outcomes or actual rulings are unknown to me.

I do recall reading about a British sailor that did well in Thailand (Siam)
early last century. He boxed well against Thai Boxers, and has been
linked to introducing boxing and the gloves to that sport. His name eludes
me.

[Robinson]

Troy Dorsey is another succesful boxer-kickboxer.

This thread needs Evander to weigh in with his
awesome opinions.

[Robinson]

The trouble with alot of wrestling matches...especially as far as US ones
go...you do not know how much of it is stage theatrics and how much
was real.

I know that when Teddy Roosevelt imported some Japanese judo players
and Ju Jitsuans to the US, to teach him and some of his wrestlers.

They were able to make fodder of some of the so called 'wrestlers'
as many of these were just big physical guys that put on shows.

The introduction of judo like holds etc no doubt became a staple in this
form of sports entertainment...which many refer to as wrestling.

How these Judoka's would have fared against greco roman or freestylers
is perhaps different.

Georges Carpentier also competed in Savate and Boxe Francais.

[Expug]

Good point Kym.
I think as far as style vs style when it comes to grappling at least, it comes down to the practitioner .
When you look at style vs style, you might have one art do real well in another art in 10 straight matches.
But then , the one particular style that lost ten matches in a row, may also have the greatest grappler ever in it.
A guy hardly anyone can beat.
For example, even if a bunch of greco guys lost in matches to catch wrestlers, I dont see anyone beating Karelin.He was a monster.
Kimura was a beast also.Judo guys could lose a bunch of matches to jujutsu guys, but then if you throw Kimura into the mix, whos gonna beat him?Not too many.
It all boils down to the competitor.
In any art.

[Robinson]

You can also see after a few seconds what guys are real...just by how they
move.

I bet in judo you have come across alot of guys who are very text book based but
have no 'feel' they lack that movement and nuances you get from grappling.

Pro wrestlers also seem to be like that (those with a non amateur background)...
i suspect they always have been.

[Expug]

Very true,
Its all about , as you said, the nuance, in the case of Judo, its Kuzushi or unbalancing.
A guy can be the strongest guy around but he must learn to unbalance his opponnent to throw him.
Its hard to learn, takes alot of time.

The American football player Alonzo Highsmith was another guy who ventured into boxing.

[BigJuicyHog]

Yall musta forgot. RJJ- Basketball player/Rapper/Actor extrordinaire.

[HomicideHenry]

Yall musta forgot. RJJ- Basketball player/Rapper/Actor extrordinaire.

Can we really use Jones as an example though? He was a boxer before he ever was any of those things.

"The American Giant" Charles Freeman was a circus strongman and acrobat before he went over to England and fought William Perry for the billed 'World' championship. Freeman in both fights was presumably the better, and retired after those two bouts. He died in England from tb and his skeleton was sold to some anatomist who collected unusual cases. Freeman, though often billed as being 7'6" was in fact 6'11" when he died. Ripley's Believe It or Not claimed Freeman was 7'2".