"Joltin" Joe "Old Bones" Brown

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 19 Aug 2004, 10:28

I would lovefor ESPNClassic to show some of the best fights by this all time lightweight great. I like fighters like this guy. Smooth, quick and slick with excellent technique and movement. Let's talk about his fighter's career. He truly was a TRUE ambassador for the sport of boxing fighting over 16 countries all over the world.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 20 Aug 2004, 01:32

....joe brown won the lightweight title from wallace "bud" smith. whenever brown's name came up in a conversation, bud said "that's MISTER joe brown....he's the one who beat me and won my title."

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 20 Aug 2004, 15:05

This guy was a hell of a fighter. He fought the best that ever was in his time. The Knock on him was that he lost too many bouts when he shouldn't have. After the Ortiz bout in '62, he never again challenged or fought for a world title. What makes me angry was that many young fighters used this guy as a LADDER to prove their worth. Too bad he end up like that.

But by anyone standards, this was an all time great!!!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 19 Sep 2005, 20:57

But he was inconsistent.

theone · Post by **theone** » 19 Sep 2005, 21:53

But he was inconsistent.

Very. He was the type of fighter who could dominate a top contender and then in his next fight get beat to hell by a journeyman.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Sep 2005, 06:14

Well he was consistant enough to hold the world title for about 6 years and make about 10 defences of it!. His losses mostly came early in his career when he was being mismanaged and later in his career when he was over the hill. Also he fought a lot in his opponents backyard so its fair to surmise that he lost a few home town decisions.
Brown was already 30 when he won the title so his reign is even more impressive I think. He beat Smith with one hand after breaking his right hand in the 3rd round. He didn't throw another right until the 13th.
As well as great skill and guile Brown had good power too. A very underrated champion I think....

theone · Post by **theone** » 20 Sep 2005, 09:24

Your right silkov, he definitly had a great run as champ, but around the same time he looked horrible in three non-title matches, against guys he should have beat easily. this was normal for him when he was a contender and should have already been considered in his prime. So if you look at it, he is the epitome of a inconsistant fighter. He won enough to get into the hall of fame, but on some nights he looked ordinary.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Sep 2005, 10:41

Well to be fair he only dropped the odd decision here and there before he won the title and many of these were avenged as were the decisions that he dropped during his title reign. Brown also fought at a time when there was a lot of talent in the division and being quite active at that time you were liable to drop a result now and then.
Browns form seems to have dropped markedly after he lost the title... I've read that his wife divorced him after he lost the title and he was left more or less penniless. Very sad.
I think he went to the hall of fame shortly before he died I remember reading something about it in a 90s Ring... hopefully he realised that he hadn't been completely forgotten for what that may be worth...

theone · Post by **theone** » 20 Sep 2005, 10:44

hopefully he realised that he hadn't been completely forgotten for what that may be worth...

I'm with you on that my man.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Sep 2005, 13:09

Consistency would not prevent me from saying he was great. Remarkable career, I may not have been privy to the "hometown" decision equation.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 20 Sep 2005, 17:59

I'd say he rates a place in the all time Lightweight top 10... which considering the talent generally in the division is high praise.

-KOKid- · Post by **-KOKid-** » 21 Sep 2005, 03:22

Brown was a great fighter, though very underrated. Brown held the record for number of title defenses (11) in the lightweight division until Roberto Duran beat that record by one defense in 1979. Atrhur Grigorian's 18 or so defenses of his paper title (WBO) in his backyard does not count of course.

My experience is that it is very difficult to gain any filmfootage of Brown, at least in Europe. I believe all of his three fights with Brit Dave Charnley were filmed, probably other as well.

The nickname "Old Bones" was something he picked up from fellow gymmates because he looked a lot older than he actually was.

One of my favorite fighters as well, I am happy to see him get some well deserved attention now. I would love to see a book done on him.

-KOKid-

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 21 Sep 2005, 05:43

-KOKid- wrote:Brown was a great fighter, though very underrated. Brown held the record for number of title defenses (11) in the lightweight division until Roberto Duran beat that record by one defense in 1979. Atrhur Grigorian's 18 or so defenses of his paper title (WBO) in his backyard does not count of course.

My experience is that it is very difficult to gain any filmfootage of Brown, at least in Europe. I believe all of his three fights with Brit Dave Charnley were filmed, probably other as well.

The nickname "Old Bones" was something he picked up from fellow gymmates because he looked a lot older than he actually was.

One of my favorite fighters as well, I am happy to see him get some well deserved attention now. I would love to see a book done on him.

-KOKid-

Yes its a shame that Brown didn't write a biography. He must have had a lot of experiences fighting all round the world like he did.
It says a lot that so many 'champions' today manage to make so many defences... its not that they are so great but because most of their opponents are not even approaching world class. In the past a world title fight was just that and thats why it was so hard for even outrstanding fighters to hold on to the world title for long periods.
The fact that Brown was champion for so long after winning in it so late is a proof of greatness I think.
I have Brown vs Smith and Ortiz but would love to see his fights with Charnley which were classics.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 21 Sep 2005, 18:26

..i saw joe brown fight willie russell in cincinnati in about 1949..maybe '50....look it up yourself....and willie was a wild swinging type and brown looked terrific, outboxed him and i think might have held back just a rad and didn't go for the knockout...a policy many black fighters did among each other then.

i knew wallace (bud)smith...and when anyone talked about brown he said "Hey...around me he's MISTER joe brown because he took my title from me."

re: the smith/brown encounters....i have some comments on them but don't have time to enter them at this moment. will try when i can.