usa nationals

[kidneypunch]

i just got out of school 6/12

i go back to school 7/27

:(

schools in cali suck >:(

[panhandle boxing]

what do expect out of the 2009 pals?? are we going to see the same finalist

[boxmel]

I would even love it if they did computer scoring for all of the boxers to get the youngsters ready early.

You would have to have 6 computer systems and techs; USAB only has 4 systems. Don't know if JB would pay the expenses.

[Slythex]

USAB only has *three* licenses of the scoring system.
The fourth was a short term lease from Swiss Timing for the Nationals.

I have yet to get a cohesive answer on how expensive the system would be for an LBC to purchase it for local use. I've heard $1,200 through $3,000+.

I believe USAB paid a lot more, and the $1,200/$3,000 whatever, is based on the fact that USAB has licenses. I don't think an LBC can contact Swiss Time directly to buy the software.

[!! Shawn]

Why on earth would anyone pay for that terrible system?

[boxmel]

USAB only has *three* licenses of the scoring system.
The fourth was a short term lease from Swiss Timing for the Nationals.

Ooops, sorry. Forgot.

I have yet to get a cohesive answer on how expensive the system would be for an LBC to purchase it for local use. I've heard $1,200 through $3,000+. I believe USAB paid a lot more, and the $1,200/$3,000 whatever, is based on the fact that USAB has licenses.

USAB paid over $3,000 for each system when purchased from AIBA last year. Given that figure, I don't see how it could be sold any cheaper unless 57 licenses would bring the cost down.

I don't think an LBC can contact Swiss Time directly to buy the software.

Correct.

Why on earth would anyone pay for that terrible system?

Why is it terrible and what system would you use (remembering that manual scoring is out of the question)?

[KCBoxingRef]

Why on earth would anyone pay for that terrible system?

Because you're either part of the solution, or part of the problem, and until the scoring system is changed/re-tooled/fixed...whatever; it is what we have, and the more officials that are trained and familiar with it - you will have the same people utilizing it. Over...and over. I'm not sure (fully) what the broken part of the system is - some, and I mean some of the people using it, or the sytem itself. I for one, believe that the premise behind the ESS is fine - it's the checks and balances that are flawed - to the point of circumvention.

My $.02 on that subject.

Now as for cost - the price tag that I was given was in the neighborhood of $5000, which would include the cost of a laptop. I'm a propellor-head, and I know that $2000 worth of any laptop - is about $1500 more than you need to run the scoring system.


Yours in boxing - KCBR

[Slythex]

Quote:
Why on earth would anyone pay for that terrible system?

Why is it terrible and what system would you use (remembering that manual scoring is out of the question)?

Few things:
a- this is the 'official' system for AIBA. , so we're stuck with it (with a caveat *)
b- The software is complete crap. It's buggy, poorly written, and non intuitive.
c- The catch with the $2000 laptop is a function that you need a laptop with a serial port. Newer ones that aren't 'business class' don't necessarily have this. One of the laptops had a docking station/port replicator which I used at USA Nationals. I also got a USB to DB9 connector, which out of the box did NOT work. I didn't have a chance to play with it much, though and I bet I could make it work.

Caveat: If AIBA published required SPECS instead of required system, I don't think it'd be that tough to write something much much better than met those requirements. I know some people are using the Brazilian system at the LBC level to have people used to the scoring system. I don't know what makes that non-AIBA compliant though, since I've never seen the AIBA specs.

Despite being a computer tech, I'm not a big fan of how it works. With the judge eval piece, it adds an incentive to judge to the evaluation rather than score 'what you see.' I understand the concept to try and make scoring objective, and perhaps it's better than paper scoring, but I'm not sure it's worth the tradeoff.

[boxmel]

I know some people are using the Brazilian system at the LBC level to have people used to the scoring system. I don't know what makes that non-AIBA compliant though, since I've never seen the AIBA specs.

It's not "non-compliant." It just isn't the system AIBA is using. AIBA is making money off selling the currently approved software. Everyone who has worked the Brazilian system like it much better and say it's very user friendly.

I understand the concept to try and make scoring objective, and perhaps it's better than paper scoring, but I'm not sure it's worth the tradeoff.

It's definitely worth the tradeoff. At least with the ESS you can actually see what the judges are doing and bring a halt to obvious bias. With manual scoring there is no way of tracking what the judge does and any cheating can't be seen. Just remember the Roy Jones' incident in 1988 and you'll know why we'll never go back to manual scoring.

[Slythex]

It's definitely worth the tradeoff. At least with the ESS you can actually see what the judges are doing and bring a halt to obvious bias. With manual scoring there is no way of tracking what the judge does and any cheating can't be seen. Just remember the Roy Jones' incident in 1988 and you'll know why we'll never go back to manual scoring.

Well, regardless of which system, or how it's implemented, there is potential for 'gaming the system.' Perhaps I'm somewhat naive in that I assume most judges are trying to be fair :-)

There was also talk of using a 7 judge system (via the computer) with only 5 of the judges officially counting. This way, you don't know if you're a 'real' judge, or a 'unused' judge. I don't know whether or not this idea has traction, though.

I've wondered how hard it would be to have a sensor in the gloves to objectively count punches if they exceeded some force threshold. Even that, though, can probably be gamed.

All of that being said, I still think the Swiss Time system is badly written, buggy software. But, for all it's warts, it appeared to work fairly well at the nationals...

[boxmel]

Well, regardless of which system, or how it's implemented, there is potential for 'gaming the system.' Perhaps I'm somewhat naive in that I assume most judges are trying to be fair :-)

Yeah - the Russians have this down to a fine science. 8)

There was also talk of using a 7 judge system (via the computer) with only 5 of the judges officially counting. This way, you don't know if you're a 'real' judge, or a 'unused' judge. I don't know whether or not this idea has traction, though.

That's a new one on me and doesn't sound too feasible. From what I've heard, AIBA is working on a new system that will get rid of the "accepted" score and use only the "individual/raw" score and toss out the high and the low. Sounds good to me.

I've wondered how hard it would be to have a sensor in the gloves to objectively count punches if they exceeded some force threshold

.
Considering it would count every punch, legal or not, I don't think this is viable. Actually, this method has been looked into and is extremely expensive, i.e., you would have to have some kind of vest that would cover the scoring area only, sensors on the scoring area covering the headgear and I have no idea what would be on the face.

All of that being said, I still think the Swiss Time system is badly written, buggy software.

Amen. And, per AIBA, it's really the German ESS with a Swiss Timing module which USA Boxing didn't purchase because it costs $6,000 or $7,000 per system.

[babyhuey]

anyone know where i can get a copy of a few fights
from the US Nationals in Denver this past week....??

[boxmel]

There are some bouts on YouTube. You might check there first.

[!! Shawn]

Michael Hunters controversial bout as filmed by me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_xVcAq8Mz4

[babyhuey]

There are some bouts on YouTube. You might check there first.

looking for the bout -

Queen Underwood -v- Jennifer Finn (Ann Wolfs Daughter) - finals in the 141lb sr. womens

if someone comes across this let me know, i was unable to find it.

Thanks.

[kidneypunch]

any juniors 132 or 138(141)

or any open male 141?

[Dennis]

The video of the finals can be found on the USA Boxing website. The men's and women's finals are both posted there.