Joe Louis vrs Lee Savold(1951)a milestone or footnote?

[Brutu]

Here is some trivia and a question for boxing fans.
Anyone know for what reason why that particular fight June.15.1951 Madison Square Garden NYC was important, even though it was neither a championship fight or particularly competitive ?

[dempseyfire]

The BBBC recognized Savold as champ instead of Charles I believe, but when Joe who had been beaten by Charles beat Lee, they basically threw up their hands and declared Ezzard as the champ, I believe . . ..this is all just from my memory.

[Controversial]

Here is some trivia and a question for boxing fans.
Anyone know for what reason why that particular fight June.15.1951 Madison Square Garden NYC was important, even though it was neither a championship fight or particularly competitive ?

It was the first ever fight to be screened on closed circuit television

[BoxBuzz]

That was a milestone indeed, and set the stage for theaters around the world to be used as gathering places to watch the only events that could draw such crowds other than movies themselves. It was sad to see it come to an end via HBO. Those get togethers were about more than just boxing, it was a place where different communities would gather in public, and usually behave. Sometimes not, but communities worked it out for the most part. A place for people to practice their people skills. LOL.

[Brutu]

As the Fonz would have said"Correctamundo".
The Louis-Savold fight was
"The first major experiment in putting a big fight before a theater audience via television".
"first professional prizefight carried to theaters on closed-circuit tv".

Its initial success depended on the turn out to see it which was almost overwelhming(22,000 paying customers)and thousands more were turned away
at the box office because of seating capacity and standing room only at the 8 or 9 movie theaters in 6 cities that it was shown in.
Washington DC,Pittsburgh,Chicago,Baltimore,Albany NY,Cleveland Ohio.
Of course a lot of that had to do with low ticket prices, general admisission depended on which theater you saw it from 50 cents,65 cents,74 cents ,98 cents up to$1.50 for a really good seat.
(source BILLBOARD June 1951)

[jimglen]

yes, but though inevitable, this would lead to TV which most commentators blame for an overall decline of the sport begining in the mid-50s.

This in turn brought about the closing of small halls and fight clubs, less fighters in numbers and the eventual disecting of divisions, sanctioning bodies and demise of the sport. Of course HBO and pay per view capitalized and made big on the few big names available (comparitively speaking), and sanctioning bodies added to the mess by having their own champions, ratings - often different, one from the other, and generally we are left with the remnant of once a huge and popular, competative and great sport.

Progress, always comes at a cost. Sad thing is we could return this sport back to a more savory and exceptable commodity.

Please DO!

[Brutu]

Can anyone here list the first ten fights that were broadcast by Theater Network Television(TNT)closed-circuit ?
Joe Louis-Lee Savold in June 1951 being the first of course.

[Brutu]

Can anyone here list the first ten fights that were broadcast by Theater Network Television(TNT)closed-circuit ?
Joe Louis-Lee Savold in June 1951 being the first of course.

Here is a partial listing of the list of Theater Network Television,Inc closed-circuit shows that i have tried to put together for a reference.
(Source THE BILLBOARD 1951-1955.)

June-1951 Joe Louis-Lee Savold(9 theaters in 6 cities)
June-1951 Jake LaMotta-Irish Bob Murphy
July-1951 Rex Layne-Rocky Marciano/(11 theaters in 10 cities)
August-1951 Joe Louis-Jimmy Bivins(20 theaters in 15 cities)
Sept-1951 Ray Robinson-Dick Turpin II
Sept-1951 Sandy Saddler-Willie Pep(25-30 theaters?)

June-1952 Ray Robinson-Joey Maxim/(38 theaters in 21 cities)
SEPT 1952 Rocky Marciano-Jersey Joe Walcott/(50 theaters in 30 cities coast to coast)
Sept 1953 Marciano-LaStarza II

June 1954 Rocky Marciano-Ezzard Charles/(61 theaters in 45 cities)
Sept-1954 Rocky Marciano-Ezzard Charles II

May-1955 Marciano-Cockell/(83 theaters in 59 cities)
Sept-1955 Marciano-Archie Moore(127 theaters in 92 cities)

[BoxBuzz]

The TV thing is somewhat understandble.

"Death making" in sports can be minimially tolerated if it is done in a way that most of us hear of it via newspapers or by word of mouth. However in our living rooms in the fifties it shocked some and started the seeds for the "do gooders" to get into the act.

Many decided that the sport was too violent, and of course the feminization of society played a role.

I'm not judging, It's just my take on what happened. or what is happening. Maybe the internet will be a way for it's revival, since it's now more than a three way race for what makes it into our homes again. Much like before Television's golden age.

[HomicideHenry]

Here is some trivia and a question for boxing fans.
Anyone know for what reason why that particular fight June.15.1951 Madison Square Garden NYC was important, even though it was neither a championship fight or particularly competitive ?

It was the first ever fight to be screened on closed circuit television

Wrong....Max Baer vs Lou Nova was

[Brutu]

Well I should have said for commericial use for a large paying audience.
Actually I believe the first closed-circuit television transmission of a championship prizefight to a theater
had been in England in 1938.Id imagine it was an experiment.The book I had read that in didnt say who the fighters were.
(FIGHT PICTURES by Dan Streible)

[zojo]

As the Fonz would have said"Correctamuno".
The Louis-Savold fight was
"The first major experiment in putting a big fight before a theater audience via television".
"first professional prizefight carried to theaters on closed-circuit tv".

Its initial success depended on the turn out to see it which was almost overwelhming(22,000 paying customers)and thousands more were turned away
at the box office because of seating capacity and standing room only at the 8 or 9 movie theaters in 6 cities that it was shown in.
Washington DC,Pittsburgh,Chicago,Baltimore,Albany NY,Cleveland Ohio.
Of course a lot of that had to do with low ticket prices, general admisission depended on which theater you saw it from 50 cents,65 cents,74 cents ,98 cents up to$1.50 for a really good seat.
(source BILLBOARD June 1951)

Props for quoting Arthur Fonzerelli

[Brutu]

As the Fonz would have said"Correctamuno".
The Louis-Savold fight was
"The first major experiment in putting a big fight before a theater audience via television".
"first professional prizefight carried to theaters on closed-circuit tv".

Its initial success depended on the turn out to see it which was almost overwelhming(22,000 paying customers)and thousands more were turned away
at the box office because of seating capacity and standing room only at the 8 or 9 movie theaters in 6 cities that it was shown in.
Washington DC,Pittsburgh,Chicago,Baltimore,Albany NY,Cleveland Ohio.
Of course a lot of that had to do with low ticket prices, general admisission depended on which theater you saw it from 50 cents,65 cents,74 cents ,98 cents up to$1.50 for a really good seat.
(source BILLBOARD June 1951)

Props for quoting Arthur Fonzerelli

accidently misplelt it,I should have spelt it
"CORRECTAMUNDO'
Man,I knew I should have bought one of the Fonzi dolls I saw in the Woolworth store window around 1976.Probably been worth a fortune now.

[Brutu]

One of the theaters that had shown the live event also made a kinescope of it so that the crowds that were turned away
could watch the replay of the fight.CBS later broadcast the film version of it the following Wednesday on national television.
Here is a clip of the fight,which looks grainy and is looks like its from a video-taped from the FIGHTS OF THE CENTURY television show by Bill Cayton and Jim Jacobs in the early 1960's.The originall ring commenteters voice is replaced by a voice over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9zg7B-4p8

[HomicideHenry]

Well I should have said for commericial use for a large paying audience.
Actually I believe the first closed-circuit television transmission of a championship prizefight to a theater
had been in England in 1938.Id imagine it was an experiment.The book I had read that in didnt say who the fighters were.
(FIGHT PICTURES by Dan Streible)

That's right. The first televised bout was in England, though it was merely an exhibition. The first nationally televised event, however, was Max Baer vs Lou Nova. Then, thiry years later, Mildenberger/Ali if I am not mistaken became the first bout to be internationally televised throughout the world.

[Woller]

I think the Ali v Milderberger was the first Worldwide in Colour.

Woller

[Brutu]

One source states that the first Clay vrs Liston fight in Miami Beach February 1964 was broadcast by the Telstar satellite to England in the middle of the night
and seen by 7 million UK viewers"possibly the 1st major satellite sports relay".
and the Ali vrs Henry Cooper II fight in 1966.
was broadcast live on ABC-TV via the Early Bird Satellite to Europe and America(not sure world-wide).

[Brutu]

I believe Joe Frazier fighting for the gold medal in 1964 Olympics in Tokyo was beamed via Telstar satellite to America.
Not sure if that counts though.

[Brutu]

The Early Bird Satellite was launched April-6-1965 from Cape Canivaral in Florida.

I believe the Ali vrs Patterson fight from Las Vegas Nevada was also transmitted live to Europe from it.
They didnt have to pay to see it,probably because they have to get up at 3 a.m just to it watch over there.

[Brutu]

technology cant keep up with it.I just heard today on the radio that now the space station has access to the inter-net world wide web and the first tweet from space was today.

[BoxBuzz]

One source states that the first Clay vrs Liston fight in Miami Beach February 1964 was broadcast by the Telstar satellite to England in the middle of the night
and seen by 7 million UK viewers"possibly the 1st major satellite sports relay".
and the Ali vrs Henry Cooper II fight in 1966.
was broadcast live on ABC-TV via the Early Bird Satellite to Europe and America(not sure world-wide).

That's interesting, it COULD be true, however the first Telstar sattelite had a max capacity of sending or receiving of only 20 minutes from any one location. This due to it's very odd orbit. Most things that were transmitted or recieved on that satellite had to fit into a twenty minute or shorter span of time.

It was mostly used for political speeches, and educational and novelty items or short segments of sporting events. So maybe it was just a few rounds?

Or ...Maybe Telstar II or later?

[granberry]

One of the theaters that had shown the live event also made a kinescope of it so that the crowds that were turned away
could watch the replay of the fight.CBS later broadcast the film version of it the following Wednesday on national television.
Here is a clip of the fight,which looks grainy and is looks like its from a video-taped from the FIGHTS OF THE CENTURY television show by Bill Cayton and Jim Jacobs in the early 1960's.The originall ring commenteters voice is replaced by a voice over.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9zg7B-4p8

Thanks for calling attention to that, Brutu.

Louis vs. Savold was Louis with no right hand. Compare to the young Joe Louis fighting Carnera.

Louis still had a left jab and a left hook Against Savold. He was much trimmer physically here than he was by the time he fought Marciano. Against Marciano he had ONLY a left jab.

Louis' fight with Savold was a very ugly fight to watch, because Savold got chopped to pieces but was tough and would not quit.

Marciano's fight with Savold was similarly ugly in that respect.

[Brutu]

IMOP they should have included the Louis-Savold fight on the ESPN-RINGSIDE show.
Because it was Louis's last Hurrah,were he even resemblened to his old champion-self..
It was that fight that convinced many in the press that he had actually a chance of regaining back the Hwy title from Ezzard Charles.
Off course it helped that Savold was made to order by standing right in front of him attempting to slug it out.
also Savold was only a year younger(35) and was out weighed by 20 lbs(207 to187).

[Brutu]

The book to read concerning Muhammad Ali and his closed circuit fights and satellite tv is, .
MUHAMMAD ALI THE MAKING OF AN ICON by Michael Ezra(2009).
I just came across it earlier on-line trying to answer some of my own questions here.

The Clay-Liston fight in Miami Beach in 1964 was transmitted to Europe from a NASA satellite on a delayed basis.
"First American sports program to be shown abroad in its entirety within 2 hours of its taking place".
TNT made a kinesope to video-tapetransfer of the bout ,then took it to the NASA's earth station in Andover Maine which then transmitted the signal on Eurovision which aired and was seen by 165 million people in 11 countries,
including Yugoslavia,Finland,Norway,Czcheslovakia,Ireland,Spain and Sweden.

Here in America it was seen live on 263 closed circuit theaters and arenas by 530,000 fans.
Reportly it was also seen live by 250,000 on cable tv.

[jaclem2]

.....dempseyfire has the answer about the significance of this particular match-up. granberry has a good description of the fight. i think it was ring magazine in its review said "Louis-Savold is the Louis of old" If it doesn't come across in print just say the words quickly.