Tyson, Holyfield & Lewis. Who is the best fighter they beat?

[Controversial]

Name the best fighter on Tyson's, Holyfield's and Lewis's resume that they beat.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Tyson - Tony Tucker

Holyfield - Riddick Bowe

Lewis - Evander Holyfield

[dempseyfire]

Tyson - Tony Tucker

Holyfield - Riddick Bowe

Lewis - Evander Holyfield

Well, Holmes was clearly the best fighter Mike beat, but if we are talking their condition at the time they fought I'd say Holyfield-Bowe; Lewis-Holyfield and Tyson-Tony Tubbs. Yes, I think Tubbs was under-rated and would've beaten the likes of Ruddock, Tucker and Berbick.

[Bricks]

Tyson- Michael Spinks

Holyfield- Riddick Bowe

Lewis- Klitchko

[Bricks]

Tyson - Tony Tucker

Holyfield - Riddick Bowe

Lewis - Evander Holyfield

Well, Holmes was clearly the best fighter Mike beat, but if we are talking their condition at the time they fought I'd say Holyfield-Bowe; Lewis-Holyfield and Tyson-Tony Tubbs. Yes, I think Tubbs was under-rated and would've beaten the likes of Ruddock, Tucker and Berbick.

I'll commence with the pissing on another persons parade.
Do you really think Tubbs could have withstood the array of left hooks a prime ruddock would have thrown at him? or that he would have been disciplined enough to beat Tucker? Tubbs was a fantastic talent but he rarely had the discipline in his prime to hold it together.

[The Great John L]

Tyson - Tony Tucker

Holyfield - Riddick Bowe

Lewis - Evander Holyfield

Well, Holmes was clearly the best fighter Mike beat, but if we are talking their condition at the time they fought I'd say Holyfield-Bowe; Lewis-Holyfield and Tyson-Tony Tubbs. Yes, I think Tubbs was under-rated and would've beaten the likes of Ruddock, Tucker and Berbick.

I'll commence with the pissing on another persons parade.
Do you really think Tubbs could have withstood the array of left hooks a prime ruddock would have thrown at him? or that he would have been disciplined enough to beat Tucker? Tubbs was a fantastic talent but he rarely had the discipline in his prime to hold it together.

I think Tubbs would have been able to turn Ruddock inside out, but I think Tucker would have been a very tall order for him. Certainly Tubbs lacked some discipline, but as you noted he was extremely talented.

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

Tyson- Michael Spinks

Holyfield- Riddick Bowe

Lewis- Klitchko

Spot on.
Though for Lewis its a toss up between Vitali and Evander.
It was only AFTER Lewis had that ludricuous draw with Evander, that people suddenley started saying Holyfield was past it. Mere weeks before Lewis-Holyfield 1, the Ring listed Evander as the 3rd greatest HW ever!
Holy may not have been at 100% aged 36, but he wasn't washed up.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Tyson- Michael Spinks

Holyfield- Riddick Bowe

Lewis- Klitchko

Spot on.
Though for Lewis its a toss up between Vitali and Evander.
It was only AFTER Lewis had that ludricuous draw with Evander, that people suddenley started saying Holyfield was past it. Mere weeks before Lewis-Holyfield 1, the Ring listed Evander as the 3rd greatest HW ever!
Holy may not have been at 100% aged 36, but he wasn't washed up.

I disagree. People were still on a high from the Tyson & Moorer decimations, where Holyfield was concerned. There was still a sizeable crowd calling Holyfield hot-sh!t, but most knew he was on the decline...& some even called for his retirement (which he obliged, briefly) as far back as 1992. Again he was called finished in 1995.

Holyfield's prime ended, for me, around 93-94, & he had slowed decidedly by the time he fought Lewis. Probably not washed-up, IMO, but absolutely visibly past-it. I agree it's close between him & Klitschko for Lewis' best scalp, & that says a whole lot to me, as Holyfield was a much better fighter than Klitschko ever was, IMO. Much better.

[dempseyfire]

Tyson - Tony Tucker

Holyfield - Riddick Bowe

Lewis - Evander Holyfield

Well, Holmes was clearly the best fighter Mike beat, but if we are talking their condition at the time they fought I'd say Holyfield-Bowe; Lewis-Holyfield and Tyson-Tony Tubbs. Yes, I think Tubbs was under-rated and would've beaten the likes of Ruddock, Tucker and Berbick.

I'll commence with the pissing on another persons parade.
Do you really think Tubbs could have withstood the array of left hooks a prime ruddock would have thrown at him? or that he would have been disciplined enough to beat Tucker? Tubbs was a fantastic talent but he rarely had the discipline in his prime to hold it together.

People forget Tucker struggled with the likes of James Broad. Tubbs beat Page, Smith and I think his fight with Tim really coulda gone either way. I also think he got robbed vs Bowe. Tubbs wasn't as fondly remembered b/c he wasn't a big puncher and never really had any memorable performances, but the guy top notch skills, great handspeed, and surprising endurance.

[gambler49]

Tyson - Tubbs
Holy - Bowe
Lewis - Morrison

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

Holyfield's prime ended, for me, around 93-94, & he had slowed decidedly by the time he fought Lewis. Probably not washed-up, IMO, but absolutely visibly past-it. I agree it's close between him & Klitschko for Lewis' best scalp, & that says a whole lot to me, as Holyfield was a much better fighter than Klitschko ever was, IMO. Much better.

Fans in the US, were all saying Holy would KO Lennox in 3 rounds!
If people REALLY though Holy was past it in 1999, i dont think they'd have made such predictions.

Vitali is a decent HW though.... potentially top 20 all timer....
A slightly past his best Holy and a prime Vitali... close call

[Syntax Error]

Tyson - TUCKER

Holyfield - BOWE

Lewis - HOLYFIELD

[Shazam!]

Holyfield's prime ended, for me, around 93-94, & he had slowed decidedly by the time he fought Lewis. Probably not washed-up, IMO, but absolutely visibly past-it. I agree it's close between him & Klitschko for Lewis' best scalp, & that says a whole lot to me, as Holyfield was a much better fighter than Klitschko ever was, IMO. Much better.

Fans in the US, were all saying Holy would KO Lennox in 3 rounds!
If people REALLY though Holy was past it in 1999, i dont think they'd have made such predictions.

Vitali is a decent HW though.... potentially top 20 all timer....
A slightly past his best Holy and a prime Vitali... close call

I seem to remember the same people, a lot of them so-called experts, making the same predictions about Tyson vs Lewis, Tua vs Lewis, Ruddock vs Lewis etc. Then obviously after the fight it's 'they were past it'. People simply don't like getting egg on their face.

[Shazam!]

A lot of people clearly don't like Lewis because, quite simply, he aint American and he aint Mike Tyson. He went over to the states very early in his career and beats everyone that was put in front of him. One of the main proprietors of this personal bias is the respected historian, Bert Sugar. Bert has always had something against Lewis. He was asked to write a story for ESPN after Lewis beat Klitschko. A Lewis appreciation column. But if you read the article, linked below, you'll find it tinged with spite.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/ ... id=2719112

In this 'appreciation' column, Bert fails to acknowledge, let alone appreciate, just one of Lewis's strengths (his jab, ring smarts, composure, huge right hand? no, no and no)....he starts off by taking a dig at UK boxers and UK fans, basically saying they're not as good as Americans (300 million people compared to 70 mill in a country where boxing isn't as big, anyone?)...

He then goes on to say that Lewis was born in Jamaica and isn't really English. Another misinformed insult. Actually, he was born in East London, where he spent his early childhood years before moving to Canada for about 10 years and then moving back to London for the next 25 years.

Sugar then ends the column with a whole three paragraphs on Lewis's least known, least important win against somebody named Jackson, using this as an attempt to sum up what is in his view an unimpressive career. No mention of Tua, Morrison, Mercer, Grant, Golota, Holyfield etc

It's this kind of patriotic journalism which perpetuates a false and unfair retrospect on Lewis's career, but history has proven that the great fighters rise to the top over time and this is what, despite the likes of Sugar, is rightly happening with Lewis's legacy.

[Ezzard]

A lot of people clearly don't like Lewis because, quite simply, he aint American and he aint Mike Tyson. He went over to the states very early in his career and beats everyone that was put in front of him. One of the main proprietors of this personal bias is the respected historian, Bert Sugar. Bert has always had something against Lewis. He was asked to write a story for ESPN after Lewis beat Klitschko. A Lewis appreciation column. But if you read the article, linked below, you'll find it tinged with spite.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/ ... id=2719112

In this 'appreciation' column, Bert fails to acknowledge, let alone appreciate, just one of Lewis's strengths (his jab, ring smarts, composure, huge right hand? no, no and no)....he starts off by taking a dig at UK boxers and UK fans, basically saying they're not as good as Americans (300 million people compared to 70 mill in a country where boxing isn't as big, anyone?)...

He then goes on to say that Lewis was born in Jamaica and isn't really English. Another misinformed insult. Actually, he was born in East London, where he spent his early childhood years before moving to Canada for about 10 years and then moving back to London for the next 25 years.

Sugar then ends the column with a whole three paragraphs on Lewis's least known, least important win against somebody named Jackson, using this as an attempt to sum up what is in his view an unimpressive career. No mention of Tua, Morrison, Mercer, Grant, Golota, Holyfield etc

It's this kind of patriotic journalism which perpetuates a false and unfair retrospect on Lewis's career, but history has proven that the great fighters rise to the top over time and this is what, despite the likes of Sugar, is rightly happening with Lewis's legacy.

I’ve never understood what made him so disliked.

I mean Tyson was great for the sport at first but ended up bringing boxing into disrepute: a convicted rapist; a man who bit an opponent’s ear. Yet Tyson is loved and Lewis hated.

What makes a boxer so disliked? Duran I can understand. Leonard I can understand. Monzon I can understand. Then there are guys like Mayweather, Toney and Eubank who essentially play the pantomime villain in order to sell tickets. But Lewis? He’s more non-descript than anything, not charismatic enough to be actively disliked.

[ThatOne]

A lot of people clearly don't like Lewis because, quite simply, he aint American and he aint Mike Tyson. He went over to the states very early in his career and beats everyone that was put in front of him. One of the main proprietors of this personal bias is the respected historian, Bert Sugar. Bert has always had something against Lewis. He was asked to write a story for ESPN after Lewis beat Klitschko. A Lewis appreciation column. But if you read the article, linked below, you'll find it tinged with spite.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/ ... id=2719112

In this 'appreciation' column, Bert fails to acknowledge, let alone appreciate, just one of Lewis's strengths (his jab, ring smarts, composure, huge right hand? no, no and no)....he starts off by taking a dig at UK boxers and UK fans, basically saying they're not as good as Americans (300 million people compared to 70 mill in a country where boxing isn't as big, anyone?)...

He then goes on to say that Lewis was born in Jamaica and isn't really English. Another misinformed insult. Actually, he was born in East London, where he spent his early childhood years before moving to Canada for about 10 years and then moving back to London for the next 25 years.

Sugar then ends the column with a whole three paragraphs on Lewis's least known, least important win against somebody named Jackson, using this as an attempt to sum up what is in his view an unimpressive career. No mention of Tua, Morrison, Mercer, Grant, Golota, Holyfield etc

It's this kind of patriotic journalism which perpetuates a false and unfair retrospect on Lewis's career, but history has proven that the great fighters rise to the top over time and this is what, despite the likes of Sugar, is rightly happening with Lewis's legacy.

I’ve never understood what made him so disliked.

I mean Tyson was great for the sport at first but ended up bringing boxing into disrepute: a convicted rapist; a man who bit an opponent’s ear. Yet Tyson is loved and Lewis hated.

What makes a boxer so disliked? Duran I can understand. Leonard I can understand. Monzon I can understand. Then there are guys like Mayweather, Toney and Eubank who essentially play the pantomime villain in order to sell tickets. But Lewis? He’s more non-descript than anything, not charismatic enough to be actively disliked.[/quote]


Because he was quiet and well mannered and didn't outwardly share the bloodlust some folks demand from boxers.

[Shazam!]

It's a strange one. I think a lot of the hype and obsession was around Tyson and Holyfield, their careers, will they, won't they... and people only really started taking notice of Lewis in America after that had ended (late 90's). But Lewis was ready in the early 90's after he beat Ruddock. However, that was held in England and after he lost to McCall....it meant he had to go through a rebuilding phase in the mid-90's. It wasn't until the late 90's that he started getting the really big fights, Holyfield/Tyson had been gotten out of the way and the spotlight came down on Lewis.

By that point he had entered his 30's and started to slow a little, relying more on his ring-smarts as opposed to speed. Though he still had pretty quick hands and raw power, he wasn't quite as explosive. And there was always that slight indecision between whether to box or brawl. When he brawled, he was lethal (ie Shannon Briggs...watch Lewis literally run out of his corner and attack Briggs).

I believe Lewis suffered from the same sort of thing Floyd Mayweather is going through right now. He made as lot of his opponents look so bad that people criticised his opponents instead of giving him the respect he deserves. You've gotta give Mayweather respect for how bad he made Marquez look, just like you've gotta give respect for Lewis making Tua look so bad. Like Mayweather, Lennox learned that with his skills, there were times when he just needed to box. The American public were used to seeing Tyson and Holyfield brawl but still, I believe if Lennox hadbeen American he would have definitely receive da lot more support. Lewis had a lot of spectacular KO's. I just think people prefer not to look back at those and instead remember the negatives.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Holyfield's prime ended, for me, around 93-94, & he had slowed decidedly by the time he fought Lewis. Probably not washed-up, IMO, but absolutely visibly past-it. I agree it's close between him & Klitschko for Lewis' best scalp, & that says a whole lot to me, as Holyfield was a much better fighter than Klitschko ever was, IMO. Much better.

Fans in the US, were all saying Holy would KO Lennox in 3 rounds!
If people REALLY though Holy was past it in 1999, i dont think they'd have made such predictions.

Vitali is a decent HW though.... potentially top 20 all timer....
A slightly past his best Holy and a prime Vitali... close call

I seem to remember the same people, a lot of them so-called experts, making the same predictions about Tyson vs Lewis, Tua vs Lewis, Ruddock vs Lewis etc. Then obviously after the fight it's 'they were past it'. People simply don't like getting egg on their face.

No, they don't. However, I want to clarify something from your post --- are you contending the Holyfield Lewis fought wasn't past-it?

[Goodnight, Irene]

A lot of people clearly don't like Lewis because, quite simply, he aint American and he aint Mike Tyson. He went over to the states very early in his career and beats everyone that was put in front of him. One of the main proprietors of this personal bias is the respected historian, Bert Sugar. Bert has always had something against Lewis. He was asked to write a story for ESPN after Lewis beat Klitschko. A Lewis appreciation column. But if you read the article, linked below, you'll find it tinged with spite.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/ ... id=2719112

In this 'appreciation' column, Bert fails to acknowledge, let alone appreciate, just one of Lewis's strengths (his jab, ring smarts, composure, huge right hand? no, no and no)....he starts off by taking a dig at UK boxers and UK fans, basically saying they're not as good as Americans (300 million people compared to 70 mill in a country where boxing isn't as big, anyone?)...

He then goes on to say that Lewis was born in Jamaica and isn't really English. Another misinformed insult. Actually, he was born in East London, where he spent his early childhood years before moving to Canada for about 10 years and then moving back to London for the next 25 years.

Sugar then ends the column with a whole three paragraphs on Lewis's least known, least important win against somebody named Jackson, using this as an attempt to sum up what is in his view an unimpressive career. No mention of Tua, Morrison, Mercer, Grant, Golota, Holyfield etc

It's this kind of patriotic journalism which perpetuates a false and unfair retrospect on Lewis's career, but history has proven that the great fighters rise to the top over time and this is what, despite the likes of Sugar, is rightly happening with Lewis's legacy.

That's all valid enough, but don't pretend he didn't have negative qualities.

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's a strange one. I think a lot of the hype and obsession was around Tyson and Holyfield, their careers, will they, won't they... and people only really started taking notice of Lewis in America after that had ended (late 90's). But Lewis was ready in the early 90's after he beat Ruddock. However, that was held in England and after he lost to McCall....it meant he had to go through a rebuilding phase in the mid-90's. It wasn't until the late 90's that he started getting the really big fights, Holyfield/Tyson had been gotten out of the way and the spotlight came down on Lewis.

By that point he had entered his 30's and started to slow a little, relying more on his ring-smarts as opposed to speed. Though he still had pretty quick hands and raw power, he wasn't quite as explosive. And there was always that slight indecision between whether to box or brawl. When he brawled, he was lethal (ie Shannon Briggs...watch Lewis literally run out of his corner and attack Briggs).

I believe Lewis suffered from the same sort of thing Floyd Mayweather is going through right now. He made as lot of his opponents look so bad that people criticised his opponents instead of giving him the respect he deserves. You've gotta give Mayweather respect for how bad he made Marquez look, just like you've gotta give respect for Lewis making Tua look so bad. Like Mayweather, Lennox learned that with his skills, there were times when he just needed to box. The American public were used to seeing Tyson and Holyfield brawl but still, I believe if Lennox hadbeen American he would have definitely receive da lot more support. Lewis had a lot of spectacular KO's. I just think people prefer not to look back at those and instead remember the negatives.

Lewis was better in his thirties than in his twenties. That appears overwhelmingly obvious to me.

[Ezzard]

I lived and worked in Japan in the 90s. A lot of casual American fans living out there were utterly convinced that Lewis had thrown his title away rather than face Bowe. I tried to tell them it was the other way around but they simply would not accept it.

[ThatOne]

I lived and worked in Japan in the 90s. A lot of casual American fans living out there were utterly convinced that Lewis had thrown his title away rather than face Bowe. I tried to tell them it was the other way around but they simply would not accept it.

Did you like living in Japan?

[The Great John L]

I lived and worked in Japan in the 90s. A lot of casual American fans living out there were utterly convinced that Lewis had thrown his title away rather than face Bowe. I tried to tell them it was the other way around but they simply would not accept it.

Based on how many delusional posters on this forum think Bowe could have beaten Lewis, perhaps the majority of BOTP posters think the same thing.

[Ezzard]

I lived and worked in Japan in the 90s. A lot of casual American fans living out there were utterly convinced that Lewis had thrown his title away rather than face Bowe. I tried to tell them it was the other way around but they simply would not accept it.

Did you like living in Japan?

Good times and bad. Enjoyed the crazy differences in culture. The bright lights of Tokyo, Osaka and Kobe. Livied on a man-made island for a while. Catching a robot train going over the sea with nobody else on it, late at night, looking back at the city lights and thinking sh*t this must be the future!

Great experience. Great ex-pat lifestyle. Unfortunately I was in Kobe when the big quake hit killing almost 6000 people and flattening the city. Lost a lot of friends and neighbours.

When you live but the family next door don’t make it then it has a big impact on how you see things. Whenever something bad happens to me I remind myself of the people who died and I tell myself I have a duty to make the best of every moment.

[ThatOne]

I lived and worked in Japan in the 90s. A lot of casual American fans living out there were utterly convinced that Lewis had thrown his title away rather than face Bowe. I tried to tell them it was the other way around but they simply would not accept it.

Did you like living in Japan?

Good times and bad. Enjoyed the crazy differences in culture. The bright lights of Tokyo, Osaka and Kobe. Livied on a man-made island for a while. Catching a robot train going over the sea with nobody else on it, late at night, looking back at the city lights and thinking sh*t this must be the future!

Great experience. Great ex-pat lifestyle. Unfortunately I was in Kobe when the big quake hit killing almost 6000 people and flattening the city. Lost a lot of friends and neighbours.

When you live but the family next door don’t make it then it has a big impact on how you see things. Whenever something bad happens to me I remind myself of the people who died and I tell myself I have a duty to make the best of every moment.

Thank you.