Razor Ruddock early 1991 v Vitali (2010)

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 29 Jun 2010, 11:27

Ruddock was a very confident, powerful and fast heavyweight by todays standards.An athlete of tremendous physical gifts.

How do you see him against todays king Vitali?

The fight would take place at Caesers Palace and not Germany.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 Jun 2010, 11:51

Since the current Vitali hasn't exactly been fighting stellar comp it's hard to say but I reckon the 2006 Vitali would survive some shaky early moments a la Sanders and dispose of Ruddock around the 6th or 7th round.

His brother on the other hand doesn't make it out of round 4.

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 29 Jun 2010, 14:04

His brother on the other hand doesn't make it out of round 4.

BS! How can u say that str8 up?
It would go like that 2 or 3 outta 10. Otherwise Wlad would Jab his head off. However the left hook would always be a threat. But thats about it. Ruddock was a 1 armed fighter.

The Vitali contest would be interesting. Wat Dempsey sed about the recent competition is tru so it's hard to see it. I think Vitaly finds a way to win on points. However I think his chin will be tested. I don't think I'd wanna bet much money on this fight.

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 29 Jun 2010, 14:45

In early 1991 Ruddock was on a terrific roll and was a magnificent study in confidence.
I say that because some of the brothers recent challengers have clearly lacked belief and confidence.

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 29 Jun 2010, 14:52

mugabi wrote:In early 1991 Ruddock was on a terrific roll and was a magnificent study in confidence.
I say that because some of the brothers recent challengers have clearly lacked belief and confidence.

O for sure he was confident, mainly cos of the Dokes KO... I really enjoyed his battle wiv Bonecrusher! It's a shame Bonecrusher didn't come into the fight in better condition. Had he done so I think it would of been a 50/50 contest.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 Jun 2010, 15:21

gambler49 wrote:
His brother on the other hand doesn't make it out of round 4.
BS! How can u say that str8 up?
It would go like that 2 or 3 outta 10. Otherwise Wlad would Jab his head off. However the left hook would always be a threat. But thats about it. Ruddock was a 1 armed fighter.

The Vitali contest would be interesting. Wat Dempsey sed about the recent competition is tru so it's hard to see it. I think Vitaly finds a way to win on points. However I think his chin will be tested. I don't think I'd wanna bet much money on this fight.

Ruddock had power in his right too, just watch the right uppercut that put Morrison down.

In any case, Ruddock is far more athletic, quick and a better puncher than Peter who made Wlad dig deep to win. If Peter can put Wlad in trouble, Ruddock can put him in worse trouble and finish it. Ruddock was not a great fighter but he was in a different class than the Brocks, Chagaevs, and shot Brewsters Wlad's been beating recently.

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 29 Jun 2010, 16:00

dempseyfire wrote:
gambler49 wrote:
His brother on the other hand doesn't make it out of round 4.
BS! How can u say that str8 up?
It would go like that 2 or 3 outta 10. Otherwise Wlad would Jab his head off. However the left hook would always be a threat. But thats about it. Ruddock was a 1 armed fighter.

The Vitali contest would be interesting. Wat Dempsey sed about the recent competition is tru so it's hard to see it. I think Vitaly finds a way to win on points. However I think his chin will be tested. I don't think I'd wanna bet much money on this fight.
Ruddock had power in his right too, just watch the right uppercut that put Morrison down.

In any case, Ruddock is far more athletic, quick and a better puncher than Peter who made Wlad dig deep to win. If Peter can put Wlad in trouble, Ruddock can put him in worse trouble and finish it. Ruddock was not a great fighter but he was in a different class than the Brocks, Chagaevs, and shot Brewsters Wlad's been beating recently.

I would say Peter and Razor was about on par, bear in mind Peter was at his very best against Wlad. Now the difference between SP and RR is the chin. SP has a very good chin, and only for that reason he walked through Wlad at some points, which is something that most oppenents of Wlad never even try. No doubt RR is gonna try and walk through Wlad! But the difference is that RR would get KOd 75% of the time. Also bear in mind that when SP landed on Wlad, Wlad held on to survive. I don't think RR hit much harder then SP. Wen u sed RR wins in 4, I I say to u that would only happen 25% of the time.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 Jun 2010, 16:25

gambler49 wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:
gambler49 wrote: BS! How can u say that str8 up?
It would go like that 2 or 3 outta 10. Otherwise Wlad would Jab his head off. However the left hook would always be a threat. But thats about it. Ruddock was a 1 armed fighter.

The Vitali contest would be interesting. Wat Dempsey sed about the recent competition is tru so it's hard to see it. I think Vitaly finds a way to win on points. However I think his chin will be tested. I don't think I'd wanna bet much money on this fight.
Ruddock had power in his right too, just watch the right uppercut that put Morrison down.

In any case, Ruddock is far more athletic, quick and a better puncher than Peter who made Wlad dig deep to win. If Peter can put Wlad in trouble, Ruddock can put him in worse trouble and finish it. Ruddock was not a great fighter but he was in a different class than the Brocks, Chagaevs, and shot Brewsters Wlad's been beating recently.
I would say Peter and Razor was about on par, bear in mind Peter was at his very best against Wlad. Now the difference between SP and RR is the chin. SP has a very good chin, and only for that reason he walked through Wlad at some points, which is something that most oppenents of Wlad never even try. No doubt RR is gonna try and walk through Wlad! But the difference is that RR would get KOd 75% of the time. Also bear in mind that when SP landed on Wlad, Wlad held on to survive. I don't think RR hit much harder then SP. Wen u sed RR wins in 4, I I say to u that would only happen 25% of the time.

I would strongly disagree Peter is on par with Ruddock. Peter is and was an overweight, amatuerish slob. Ruddock was bigger, sharper, faster, better conditioning and more skilled. Wlad survived Peter b/c Peter gassed out throwing slow WIDE shots trying to take him out. Peter has never knocked out an elite opponent unless you count an old, washed up and injured Maskaev as elite. I'll take the Dokes Razor KO'd to beat that Maskaev.

As for Peter's chin, McCline proved it's not this granite piece of metal his supporters claimed. Ruddock going 12 with a broken jaw vs Tyson shows his chin was solid, def. in the same league as Peters'

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 29 Jun 2010, 16:36

^^^^^^
No way was RR chin as good as SP, no fkn way! Also SP was in good shape wen he fought Wlad. Also SP is every bit as good of an all round puncher, bar the left hook. U don't think RR would be throwing that wide left hook on Wlad and tiring out also? Ur talking like hees Joe Louis or something. What RR had over SP was a better left hook and better mobility. But his stamina was no better.
Ask me who was better Ruddock or Peter and ud get a quick answer: Ruddock.
But he wern't much better then the Peter who lost to Wlad.
As for the Mcline fight Peter had an ear problem that afected is balance. He has showed in the past to have a very good chin. Ruddock got KOd by a past it Morrison and a green Lewis. His chin was only average, Not enuff to take Wlads bombs.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 30 Jun 2010, 01:29

gambler49 wrote:^^^^^^
No way was RR chin as good as SP, no fkn way! Also SP was in good shape wen he fought Wlad. Also SP is every bit as good of an all round puncher, bar the left hook. U don't think RR would be throwing that wide left hook on Wlad and tiring out also? Ur talking like hees Joe Louis or something. What RR had over SP was a better left hook and better mobility. But his stamina was no better.
Ask me who was better Ruddock or Peter and ud get a quick answer: Ruddock.
But he wern't much better then the Peter who lost to Wlad.
As for the Mcline fight Peter had an ear problem that afected is balance. He has showed in the past to have a very good chin. Ruddock got KOd by a past it Morrison and a green Lewis. His chin was only average, Not enuff to take Wlads bombs.

A 'past it' Morrison? How the hell was Morrison "past it" in 1996?

I won't even respond to the 'green Lewis" comment.

Both fighters are better than anyone Peter has ever beaten (and yes that includes the obese shot version of Toney Peter fought in their rematch)

Peter was overweight vs Wlad, just not as grossly overweight as he was later in the 250s when he won the title. In any case, he's been badly overweight almost his entire career. Just look at his most recent fight at 235 and you can tell he could still lose some more weight.

I've never seen Peter show NEAR the stamina Ruddock showed in the Tyson rematch or his fight vs Mike Weaver. After the 5th round he fights like he's under water.

The ear issue would make sense if Sam had been cuffed on the ear by McCline. But a recovering busted ear drum (and if he'd gotten it in sparring it would've been close to normal by fight-time) wouldn't expalin Peter's legs going to jelly after an upppercut to his CHIN. Maskave also wobbled Peter in their fight. Forced to pick who had the better chin I'll say Peter but to say its much better makes no sense and in the end Ruddock is still in another league.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 30 Jun 2010, 02:18

I think people neglect to appreciate the late 1980s
Ruddock who was a silent achiever. It was not
until his Tyson fights that people really started to
notice him. Ruddock at his best was a real talented,
decent calibre of fighter... at his worse he was
one dimensional though exciting, either version was
better than present day HWs.

I see Ruddock getting a late stoppage or a decision
against VK.

A good study point is Ruddocks fight with Bonecrusher
Smith. Smith a solid, hard jawed big man with all the
goods to be a champion, though he lacked the consistency
to be a great or a legend. Smith however would have proven
a hard man to beat in todays division...and is a good indicator
as to how Razor would do against VK... in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFb13F5K8Pw pt 1 of 3

good fight to watch

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 30 Jun 2010, 06:25

dempseyfire wrote:
gambler49 wrote:
His brother on the other hand doesn't make it out of round 4.
BS! How can u say that str8 up?
It would go like that 2 or 3 outta 10. Otherwise Wlad would Jab his head off. However the left hook would always be a threat. But thats about it. Ruddock was a 1 armed fighter.

The Vitali contest would be interesting. Wat Dempsey sed about the recent competition is tru so it's hard to see it. I think Vitaly finds a way to win on points. However I think his chin will be tested. I don't think I'd wanna bet much money on this fight.
Ruddock had power in his right too, just watch the right uppercut that put Morrison down.

In any case, Ruddock is far more athletic, quick and a better puncher than Peter who made Wlad dig deep to win. If Peter can put Wlad in trouble, Ruddock can put him in worse trouble and finish it. Ruddock was not a great fighter but he was in a different class than the Brocks, Chagaevs, and shot Brewsters Wlad's been beating recently.

The difference between an athlete in good shape with good mobility and hand speed like Ruddock with someone like Samuel Peter is like light and day as you say.

Their power and ferocity was an area they excelled in, but I agree Razor had a very good right hand too and scored many kayoes, its just after the Tyson battles he just started becoming lefthook/uppercut smash happy.

I agree Razor would take Wladimir. But Im still not sure about Vitali.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 30 Jun 2010, 10:30

Light & day?

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 30 Jun 2010, 10:50

Yes yes well done Irene! You found a typo, no doubt that made your day an accomplishment filled one! But you forget I'm typing in Australian English today!

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 30 Jun 2010, 10:53

mugabi wrote:Yes yes well done Irene! You found a typo, no doubt that made your day an accomplishment filled one! But you forget I'm typing in Australian English today!

Man, I just got Ignored by some rando on Other Sports, too. Everyone has it in for me...

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 30 Jun 2010, 10:55

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
mugabi wrote:Yes yes well done Irene! You found a typo, no doubt that made your day an accomplishment filled one! But you forget I'm typing in Australian English today!
Man, I just got Ignored by some rando on Other Sports, too. Everyone has it in for me...

C'mon mate dont go all Aussie Joe Bugner on us!

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 30 Jun 2010, 10:58

You know what they say...most great men know the taste of persecution

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 30 Jun 2010, 10:59

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 30 Jun 2010, 15:00

A 'past it' Morrison? How the hell was Morrison "past it" in 1996?

After the Mercer fight he became a "Jack in the box" to any live contender.
As for all those other issues: Lets disagree to agree.......

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 30 Jun 2010, 19:02

Id agree with both of you Dempsey and Gambler, Razor is a far more formidable foe than Samuel Peter in just about every way. Athletic, mobile, physically imposing, terrific velocity and speed on his punches, he kayoed something like 3-4 former world champions on his way to the shot with Tyson. Probably history denied him being the one to dethrone Tyson as surely the hungry Ruddock would have beaten the Tyson that turned up against Douglas, seemingly exhausted by his schedule of screwing every tokyo groupie/prostitute and good time girl available for a month, as a means to losing 40ilbs of excess fat. The Tyson that did fight Ruddock was back to his formidable self in terms of desire and will even if most definetly not skill, defence and proffesionalism.

Going back to topic Razor has an abundance of tools and enough to handle Wladimir whichever way I look at it and thats not to disparage Wladimir. Vitali I dont know about. I need to think more.

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 01 Jul 2010, 07:19

Ruddock is more formidable than anyone Vitali Klitschko has faced. Vitali reigns in the ear of the fat passionless slobs. King of the scrap heap.

Like Tyson and Ibeabuchi these Klits, particularly Vitali, seem to fascinate a certain type of fan who think being very big and having massive bulging muscles makes you the greatest.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 01 Jul 2010, 16:16

overhand_right wrote:Ruddock is more formidable than anyone Vitali Klitschko has faced. Vitali reigns in the ear of the fat passionless slobs. King of the scrap heap.

Like Tyson and Ibeabuchi these Klits, particularly Vitali, seem to fascinate a certain type of fan who think being very big and having massive bulging muscles makes you the greatest.

Well-put.

Klee Gluckman · Post by **Klee Gluckman** » 02 Jul 2010, 07:43

I think the division was a bit better in this period.

Ruddock wins this. Tyson could not finish him neither will Vitali.

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 02 Jul 2010, 09:39

Klee Gluckman wrote:I think the division was a bit better in this period.

Ruddock wins this. Tyson could not finish him neither will Vitali.

He finished him in the 1st fight. Tho u could say Steel was his usual crap.
However he woulda KOd him that night. Also I tell u this, that Tyson was sliding by the 2nd fight! He was all hype at that point.