Paul McCloskey being listed as 'United Kingdom.'

[Fingalar]

This is simply not true and is contradicted in the biography section of his Boxrec.

http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Human:298487

Paul McCloskey (born 3 August 1979 in Dungiven, Northern Ireland) is an Irish southpaw professional boxer. Paul McCloskey fights at Light Welterweight and is the former Irish senior amateur champion.

This article has been taken from Wikipedia, who after much debate, agree that Paul McCloskey is Irish.

In addition to this, many newspapers almost testify to the fact that Paul McCloskey is Irish and not British, including the Irish Independent;

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-s ... 23380.html

and the British newspaper, the News of the World;

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/5 ... CROWN.html

As if this wasn't enough, Paul McCloskey was named Boxer of the Year at the Irish boxing awards, an event noted by Boxrec and also displayed prominately on his official website are the words;

The Official Website of Irish boxing champion, Paul McCloskey.

http://www.paulmccloskey.com/

So, I think it is fairly obvious that Boxrec should fix the mistake. Paul McCloskey is Irish and Boxrec's listing of him as a citizen of the United Kingdom has been proved wrong by several national news organisations, the words of the boxer himself and also, other articles within Boxrec itself.

It needs to be fixed to Irish.

[slapbangwhallop]

welcome, welcome, welcome in a chara!

you will find a convivial, open and intelligent response to your query here.

[slapbangwhallop]

Paul McCloskey (born 3 August 1979 in Dungiven, Northern Ireland)

and?

[slapbangwhallop]

and?

It's part of the UK, no?

we are discussing nationality - not place of birth.

[Fingalar]

and?

It's part of the UK, no?

we are discussing nationality - not place of birth.

As I have proved using several sources above, including the boxer's own words, he is Irish. The fact that he is from Northern Ireland doesn't change this, as many people realise. Boxrec should acknowledge that Paul McCloskey is of Irish nationality, as they have already said he was Irish in his biography and when reporting on his win at the Irish Boxing Awards.

[slapbangwhallop]

It's part of the UK, no?

we are discussing nationality - not place of birth.

Was he raised outside of NI?

no, what relivance has that.

Are you aware of the Good Friday or Belfast Agreement?

Are you aware of the provision within that agreement made with regards the nationality of those born within Northern Ireland?

[Fingalar]

If you wish to make a case for him being British, I recommend you use sources from respectable organisations.

However, this is largely pointless as you cannot contradict Paul McCloskey's own words.

Yet, it is better than listening to an astoundly weak argument based on the fact that he is from Northern Ireland.

[Fingalar]

no, what relivance has that.

Are you aware of the Good Friday or Belfast Agreement?

Are you aware of the provision within that agreement made with regards the nationality of those born within Northern Ireland?

Aware of the Good Friday Agreement? Yes, what they have do to with nationality of those born in NI, no. But, NI is not a sovereign state, and is a constituent country part of the sovereign state of the UK. He is Irish, as Welsh people are Welsh, but the sovereign state they reside in is the UK. I wish I hadn't bothered replying, you're about to list lots of reasons why I'm wrong aren't you?

The UK is the place where he lives, but his NATIONALITY is Irish. I've already listed the reasons above, providing evidence from national newspapers, other parts of the website and the boxer's own words. I'm sure he is not lying on his website about his nationality. Also, I am sure that the news organisations have researched this fact about Paul McCloskey and are unlikely to be proved wrong no matter how much you play around with this UK stuff.

[Fingalar]

Aware of the Good Friday Agreement? Yes, what they have do to with nationality of those born in NI, no. But, NI is not a sovereign state, and is a constituent country part of the sovereign state of the UK. He is Irish, as Welsh people are Welsh, but the sovereign state they reside in is the UK. I wish I hadn't bothered replying, you're about to list lots of reasons why I'm wrong aren't you?

The UK is the place where he lives, but his NATIONALITY is Irish. I've already listed the reasons above, providing evidence from national newspapers, other parts of the website and the boxer's own words. I'm sure he is not lying on his website about his nationality. Also, I am sure that the news organisations have researched this fact about Paul McCloskey and are unlikely to be proved wrong no matter how much you play around with this UK stuff.

Fair do's. I wish I hadn't replied, I don't actually care what people choose as there nationality. And I'm sick of this argument happening over and over again, and I'm annoyed I've perpetuated it in this thread. I just don't get why people care so much about what is written down next to their name, it doesn't mean anything.

It does to some people, Paul McCloskey has the right to be recognised as Irish. It also is wrong of Boxrec to change his nationality, when it is clearly expressed on his website. If this was a British man being called a French man, or a Pakistani an Indian, there would be no debate.

Why can Boxrec contradict Paul McCloskey's own words as they appear on his website?

[slapbangwhallop]

no, what relivance has that.

Are you aware of the Good Friday or Belfast Agreement?

Are you aware of the provision within that agreement made with regards the nationality of those born within Northern Ireland?

Aware of the Good Friday Agreement? Yes, what they have do to with nationality of those born in NI, no. But, NI is not a sovereign state, and is a constituent country part of the sovereign state of the UK. He is Irish, as Welsh people are Welsh, but the sovereign state they reside in is the UK. I wish I hadn't bothered replying, you're about to list lots of reasons why I'm wrong aren't you?

how did you guess?

basically the nationality of those from Northern Ireland treated different to those in Scotland, England and Wales.

Both the Irish, British and main international governments recognise that those from Northern Ireland are entitled by birth to hold Irish, British or both nationalities/citizenships.

This issue last came up with Duddy - his case a little more sensitive that McCloskey's for reasons that were made public later - but nonetheless still the same issue.

Not all boxers from Northern Ireland consider themselves Irish like McCloskey does - my favourite current boxer from NI one being one of those - and I respect that and they should have their nationality as British people respected and recognised, in the same that those those who consider themselves Irish should have that respected and recognised - not exactly a big ask but something BoxRec has ignored for years.

[slapbangwhallop]

Aware of the Good Friday Agreement? Yes, what they have do to with nationality of those born in NI, no. But, NI is not a sovereign state, and is a constituent country part of the sovereign state of the UK. He is Irish, as Welsh people are Welsh, but the sovereign state they reside in is the UK. I wish I hadn't bothered replying, you're about to list lots of reasons why I'm wrong aren't you?

The UK is the place where he lives, but his NATIONALITY is Irish. I've already listed the reasons above, providing evidence from national newspapers, other parts of the website and the boxer's own words. I'm sure he is not lying on his website about his nationality. Also, I am sure that the news organisations have researched this fact about Paul McCloskey and are unlikely to be proved wrong no matter how much you play around with this UK stuff.

Fair do's. I wish I hadn't replied, I don't actually care what people choose as there nationality. And I'm sick of this argument happening over and over again, and I'm annoyed I've perpetuated it in this thread. I just don't get why people care so much about what is written down next to their name, it doesn't mean anything.

I am sick of it as well mate. But if all English boxers were listed as French on here I am sure there might be some questions asked as well - not exactly the same, but I think you get my point.

Obviously it does mean something. BoxRec is one of the biggest sources of boxing information on the net - it is currently providing misinformation and on a relatively sensitive subject as well. It was sorted some months back when the said field was changed to state "ranking country" - which was more acceptable. But since it has been changed back to "Nationality" which is not.

I have let sleeping dogs lie with regards it but seen as it has been raised I'll throw my 2c in again for the 1,000th time - it is something that people ask my about when I am in Ireland to be honest.

[Fingalar]

The UK is the place where he lives, but his NATIONALITY is Irish. I've already listed the reasons above, providing evidence from national newspapers, other parts of the website and the boxer's own words. I'm sure he is not lying on his website about his nationality. Also, I am sure that the news organisations have researched this fact about Paul McCloskey and are unlikely to be proved wrong no matter how much you play around with this UK stuff.

Fair do's. I wish I hadn't replied, I don't actually care what people choose as there nationality. And I'm sick of this argument happening over and over again, and I'm annoyed I've perpetuated it in this thread. I just don't get why people care so much about what is written down next to their name, it doesn't mean anything.

I am sick of it as well mate. But if all English boxers were listed as French on here I am sure there might be some questions asked as well - not exactly the same, but I think you get my point.

Obviously it does mean something. BoxRec is one of the biggest sources of boxing information on the net - it is currently providing misinformation and on a relatively sensitive subject as well. It was sorted some months back when the said field was changed to state "ranking country" - which was more acceptable. But since it has been changed back to "Nationality" which is not.

I have let sleeping dogs lie with regards it but seen as it has been raised I'll throw my 2c in again for the 1,000th time - it is something that people ask my about when I am in Ireland to be honest.

There shouldn't be a debate on this. Paul McCloskey identifies himself as Irish and this is recognised by many sources. He is Irish and you can't contradict that with any real evidence. It should be changed.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

This gets boring. Let's deal with the facts on this one shall we?

Paul McCloskey is a former British light welterweight champion. For him to fight for that title, he has to hold a British passport. So he is actually British. Fact 2 is that the place he was born is part of the United Kingdom so he is again - actually British.

Citizens of the Republic of Ireland cannot box for the British title. Barry McGuigan, Young John McCormack, Mick Leahy all changed their nationality to box for the British title.

Let's hope Shep doesn't cave in this time.

[forcefraser]

I take it he is eligible to fight for the British title due to his residency then?

I am sure Boxrec have just made an honest mistake with regards to his nationality, unless it is a cunningly contrived conspiracy to further undermine and exploit the Irishmen

Does he have an Irish passport? I am sure he does if he "true" nationality is important to him as some people are making out.

[Fingalar]

This gets boring. Let's deal with the facts on this one shall we?

Paul McCloskey is a former British light welterweight champion. For him to fight for that title, he has to hold a British passport. So he is actually British. Fact 2 is that the place he was born is part of the United Kingdom so he is again - actually British.

Citizens of the Republic of Ireland cannot box for the British title. Barry McGuigan, Young John McCormack, Mick Leahy all changed their nationality to box for the British title.

Let's hope Shep doesn't cave in this time.

So you think that you are right and the Irish Independent, The News of the World, the organisers of the Irish Boxing awards are wrong?

Why is it then that Paul McCloskey is shown to be Irish everywhere except Boxrec?

And also, are you trying to say that you know better than the man himself? Are you suggesting that the statement that he is Irish on his official website is a lie? Or that he is incapable of figuring out his nationality for himself?

Is you are trying to claim he is British, please provide hard evidence for this from real sources as I have done.

[forcefraser]

Fingalar, try taking it to the courts of human justice. May be they might care.

[Fingalar]

I take it he is eligible to fight for the British title due to his residency then?

I am sure Boxrec have just made an honest mistake with regards to his nationality, unless it is a cunningly contrived conspiracy to further undermine and exploit the Irishmen

Does he have an Irish passport? I am sure he does if he "true" nationality is important to him as some people are making out.

I am sure they have made an honest mistake, as it says he is Irish in the biography section of the website.

He does have a Irish passport and states on his website that he is Irish. If the fact that he is Irish and not British was not important to him, he would not have made this distinction.

I see no reason why Boxrec shouldn't just correct this mistake. I also do not know why people continue to assert that McCloskey is British, as if they could prove McCloskey wrong on his own nationality.

[Fingalar]

Fingalar, try taking it to the courts of human justice. May be they might care.

Maybe they might spell.

[slapbangwhallop]

This gets boring. Let's deal with the facts on this one shall we?

Paul McCloskey is a former British light welterweight champion. For him to fight for that title, he has to hold a British passport. So he is actually British. Fact 2 is that the place he was born is part of the United Kingdom so he is again - actually British.

Citizens of the Republic of Ireland cannot box for the British title. Barry McGuigan, Young John McCormack, Mick Leahy all changed their nationality to box for the British title.

Let's hope Shep doesn't cave in this time.

"cave in" - cave in on what exactly?

"Fact 1"

He may hold and British passport, he may not, I dont know, havent asked him, - he may also hold an Irish passport - that covers citizenship, It doesnt cover nationality.

Do you understand the difference? Maybe, maybe not.

The field on BoxRec doesnt refer to "citizenship" it refers to "nationality".

My understanding was the if you can prove you qualify for a British passport that entitles you to fight for the British title - you dont actually have to produce one. Neil Sinclair as told me that he didnt even have a British licence when he won the British title.

"Fact 2"

No. Northern Ireland is in the UK, well done on your geography. But its the only part of the UK that by virtue of being born there doesnt make you automatically a British citizen.

refer to "Fact 1" for McGuigan etc - unlike McCloskey etc they didnt qualify for a British title, hence had to take one out - plus, that was all pre-GFA. Things change - recognise it.

[forcefraser]

Fingalar, try taking it to the courts of human justice. May be they might care.

Maybe they might spell.

I take that as a direct attack on myself as a British citizen and a typical attempt to stereotype us as uneducated, illiterate savages.

It`s so is typical of this forum, always ganging up against the non Irish posters ................

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

So you think that you are right and the Irish Independent, The News of the World, the organisers of the Irish Boxing awards are wrong?

You can bet your life I am right! The journalists from the rags above know as much about boxing as I do about knitting. The rules have not changed, for a boxer to fight for a British title, he has to be a British citizen, born or naturalized. You may or may not know about Barry McGuigan who changed his nationality to fight for the Lonsdale belt and was nicknamed 'Barry the Brit' in Nationalist circles. Harry Mullan advised him against changing his nationality in fear of alienating his republican fans - which in the end proved to be unfounded.

Why is it then that Paul McCloskey is shown to be Irish everywhere except Boxrec?

Because boxrec is right and everyone else is wrong. It doesn't matter who you are - from Shinny Bayaar to Pter Oboh - you only fight for the British title if you have a British passport.

And also, are you trying to say that you know better than the man himself?

Lets deal with facts, he must have a British passport to fight for the British title - you can be Irish and British the same way you can be Scottish/Welsh/Manx and British - its not mutually exclusive.

Are you suggesting that the statement that he is Irish on his official website is a lie? Or that he is incapable of figuring out his nationality for himself?

He has got a British passport or else he would have not fought for the British title - thats all there is to it! Bennie will be on here tomorrow morning and he can clear up this unfortunate misunderstanding for you.

Is you are trying to claim he is British, please provide hard evidence for this from real sources as I have done.

I already have done. Don't worry - the grown ups will be here tomorrow to clarify everything and then you will hopefully go away!

[Fingalar]

This is ridiculous. You can say what you like but the fact is he is Irish and should be identified as such.

The newspapers know what they are talking about, as do the Irish Boxing Awards.

Also, I don't understand how you can argue with what Paul McCloskey says. On his website it says he is Irish, there should be no more discussion of this because it is simply a fact beyond contradiction.

[slapbangwhallop]

No. Northern Ireland is in the UK, well done on your geography. But its the only part of the UK that by virtue of being born there doesnt make you automatically a British citizen. :

Yes it does. If you are born there, you are a British citizen whatever passport you hold. Whether you define your nationality as that is a different matter. He can legitimately hold a British passport, that makes him a British citizen.

wrong again.

Like I said - the British and Irish Government recognise through the GFA that those born in Northern Ireland choose whether they want to be Irish OR British OR Both. Their choice. Thats the law.

[Fingalar]

Fingalar, try taking it to the courts of human justice. May be they might care.

Maybe they might spell.

I take that as a direct attack on myself as a British citizen and a typical attempt to stereotype us as uneducated, illiterate savages.

It`s so is typical of this forum, always ganging up against the non Irish posters ................

Lol. Don't be ridiculous, that had nothing to do with you being British. Besides, how was I to know if you were British or not if I was trying to insult the British?!

[gobbles]

McCloskey was British champion was born and lives in the UK and is licensed by the British Boxing Board of Control.
It's got nothing to do with the Good Friday Agreement. It is still the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Obviously he is Irish, as is anyone born on the island of Ireland. But he is not from the Republic of Ireland, he is from the UK. Until that changes, any other definition is purely dividing people along sectarian and religious lines.