Colin Hart

[bfchunk]

I agree. Was even quite sweet when he reassured Rendall about his defeat.

[JamesH]

Have to say I didn't think he came across badly at all, and I don't think he mentioned Ali once.

[hurlock]

Have to say I didn't think he came across badly at all, and I don't think he mentioned Ali once.

you cant really dislike munroe.

hart was o.k but he never gee's up a fighter or give positive feed back.thought he was gonna slip rendall a worther's DD

[Darling]

I have never been a fan of the man but dont hate him like others, however i thought he came across very well on Ringside. Still 10 mins to go so that could change

He must have been reading this thread, Mark.

If he is on again next week AND he has washed his syrup, I will KNOW he has been reading our banter.

[Autobarn]

The thing is, there are few heavyweights who were at the top of the pile for long.

Ali, Lewis, Holmes, Louis are the exception. Most of the rest had few years at the top.

When we look at records, the likes of Dempsey had more soft touches than a virgins muff.

a fighter with tyson's build, at heavyweight, was always going to have a short prime. he unified heavyweight, he scored some great KOs and had massive profile so there shouldn't be any doubt, despite the massive disappointments that came after his late '80s title reign, the question marks about his toughness, etc.

the spinks fight has become a bit undervalued, despite being a big deal at the time and given that spinks had performed well as a heavyweight in fights with holmes and cooney.

[mickey1975]

The thing is, there are few heavyweights who were at the top of the pile for long.

Ali, Lewis, Holmes, Louis are the exception. Most of the rest had few years at the top.

When we look at records, the likes of Dempsey had more soft touches than a virgins muff.

a fighter with tyson's build, at heavyweight, was always going to have a short prime. he unified heavyweight, he scored some great KOs and had massive profile so there shouldn't be any doubt, despite the massive disappointments that came after his late '80s title reign, the question marks about his toughness, etc.

the spinks fight has become a bit undervalued, despite being a big deal at the time and given that spinks had performed well as a heavyweight in fights with holmes and cooney.

The Spinks fight shouldnt be undervalued considering Spinks never fought again.Spinks was what he was,its not like when Calzaghe beat Lacey and then everybody else did.

[jamesmcdonnell]

We've all heard them. One of my favourites was overhhearing some blokle insisting "I know my boxing, mate, and this David Kane..." (he meant Haye, but it wasn't just a slip, as he said "Kane" every time. Wouldn't mind some random guy getting a name wrong if he didn't particularly follow the sport, but it was his insistence that "I know my boxing" that got me!

I think some boxers get each others' names wrong - even their own opponents. I also remember some boxer referring to an up and coming guy as a "good container". I think he meant "contender".

Lionel

Yes, but Hart is a journalist - so there's an onus on him to know how to pronounce the fighters names. Boxers are paid to fight, not write or speak.

[Deserter]

The Spinks fight shouldnt be undervalued considering Spinks never fought again.Spinks was what he was,its not like when Calzaghe beat Lacey and then everybody else did.

I think that's a flawed comparison given it's perfectly plausible that if Spinks had carried on at Heavy post-Tyson he could have suffered a similar fall from grace to Lacy's.
What we'll never be able to establish conclusively is how much of Lacy's subsequent loss of standing was due to him being over-rated all along or because the Calzaghe beating took so much out of him, particularly mentally.

[mickey1975]

The Spinks fight shouldnt be undervalued considering Spinks never fought again.Spinks was what he was,its not like when Calzaghe beat Lacey and then everybody else did.

I think that's a flawed comparison given it's perfectly plausible that if Spinks had carried on at Heavy post-Tyson he could have suffered a similar fall from grace to Lacy's.
What we'll never be able to establish conclusively is how much of Lacy's subsequent loss of standing was due to him being over-rated all along or because the Calzaghe beating took so much out of him, particularly mentally.

A lot of my posts have been spent defending Calzaghe so i wasnt meaning to devalue his victory,which i was present for,just saying that there is no grounds to do that with Spinks for those who enjoy doing such things.Tyson-Spinks was a huge superfight at the time and he won inside a round.Nothing can change that.

[Horse]

Apart from the fact that Hart is Jewish and grew up in the East End in the years after the war

Jewish people can't be middle class?

[gobbles]

Apart from the fact that Hart is Jewish and grew up in the East End in the years after the war

Jewish people can't be middle class?

Jewish, East End, born in the depression..... If you think that's middle class, you should learn some history

[Horse]

Jewish, East End, born in the depression..... If you think that's middle class, you should learn some history

So Jewish people from the East End were less likely to be middle class than non-Jewish people from the same area?

[Deserter]

The Spinks fight shouldnt be undervalued considering Spinks never fought again.Spinks was what he was,its not like when Calzaghe beat Lacey and then everybody else did.

I think that's a flawed comparison given it's perfectly plausible that if Spinks had carried on at Heavy post-Tyson he could have suffered a similar fall from grace to Lacy's.
What we'll never be able to establish conclusively is how much of Lacy's subsequent loss of standing was due to him being over-rated all along or because the Calzaghe beating took so much out of him, particularly mentally.

A lot of my posts have been spent defending Calzaghe so i wasnt meaning to devalue his victory,which i was present for,just saying that there is no grounds to do that with Spinks for those who enjoy doing such things.Tyson-Spinks was a huge superfight at the time and he won inside a round.Nothing can change that.

See your point

[gobbles]

Jewish, East End, born in the depression..... If you think that's middle class, you should learn some history

So Jewish people from the East End were less likely to be middle class than non-Jewish people from the same area?

Yes.
The East End was a very depressed area anyway. And Jews in the East End, were the equivalent of the Bangladeshi community there now.
The history of Jews in the East End is that the ones that made it on to better things moved to more leafy parts of London, most notably in north London.

[Horse]

Yes.
The East End was a very depressed area anyway. And Jews in the East End, were the equivalent of the Bangladeshi community there now.
The history of Jews in the East End is that the ones that made it on to better things moved to more leafy parts of London, most notably in north London.

Okay.

[Matt W]

I don't think Tyson ranks amongst the top heavyweights in history and am annoyed that many people's mythical match-ups go along the lines of 'the Tyson that fought Spinks vs the Lewis that lost to McCall'. So many excuses are made for him yet with other fighters the complete opposite is true. Part of the mystique I guess.

However he does deserve to be in the HOF on achievement, and his biggest achievement for me was unifying the titles at only 21 after only 2 years as a pro. I didn't appreciate the significance of this as a 12 year old at the time but f*ck me that's some achievement.

[Ezzard]

So nobody thinks that biting a man's ear off during a championship fight and then spitting it out it in the middle of the ring should be taken into account when assessing whether Tyson's career should be honoured by entry into the HOF? Again, Tyson raped a woman while he was the most famous boxer on the planet. In my opinion these two factors demonstrate that Tyson brought the sport into disrepute in just about the most abhorrent way possible. He disgraced himself and the sport in an unforgiveable fashion. Clearly I'm in a minority of one who will find it slightly unsavoury seeing this man's career lauded and honoured.

The Hopkins scenario is entirley different. Hopkins found redemption through boxing. His story honours the sport by demonstrating its reformative powers. Through boxing Hopkins has lived a life of discipline and achievement. His career encapsulates everything that is good about boxing.

As regards LaMotta, King and Liston they'll already in for good or ill. When addressing the question of Tyson's inclusion its surely not enough to cite examples of other unsavoury characters who are already in. The question is whether or not such characters should be admitted in general. I'm not saying inductees must be angels, but Tyson is a convicted rapist! What if Valero had achieved more in the ring? Would people be happy with his inclusion?

As regards Margarito, Jones and Mosley, anybody who cheats in the fashion these men have forfeits any right to fight again never mind entering the HOF.

I have a lot of sympathy with your position.

Tyson, though massively overrated on the internet, was a top fighter BUT he also turned off a whole generation of casual fans with his behaviour. He went from saviour to coffin maker in a very short period of time. He was ultimately bad for the sport. And the whole fan worship of him is a huge running sore for boxing that, if boxing forums are anything to go by will not heal over for a long time yet.

The 1980s was big on prodigies who became embroiled in sex offences and drug abuse (Tyson, Maradona and Whacko-Jacko).

I’ll never understand why people put down Lennox Lewis and celebrate Tyson. It just blows me away.

As for the drug cheats… I think drug abuse is rife in all sports. Getting caught is the crime. In Jones’ case his lawyers always had a silver bullet for the tests right up until Tarver. At least Moseley admitted it.

[stujones]

As for the drug cheats… I think drug abuse is rife in all sports. Getting caught is the crime. In Jones’ case his lawyers always had a silver bullet for the tests right up until Tarver. At least Moseley admitted it.

Any proof on this, and why did it finish after the Tarver fight? Why doesn't Roy, roid up now - might get back his own skills. Mosley has admitted it (of a fashion) - he never thought they were illegal or something.

[Ezzard]

Lots of circumstantial evidence and the interview with the Head of Nevada State Doping who said before the Tarver fight (having seen the testosterone levels Roy had hit from 96 onwards compared to the one submitted before that fight) that he would be extremely surprised if Roy was able to maintian past levels of performance based on the comparative readings.

[Hamms-Painkiller]

Yes.
The East End was a very depressed area anyway. And Jews in the East End, were the equivalent of the Bangladeshi community there now.
The history of Jews in the East End is that the ones that made it on to better things moved to more leafy parts of London, most notably in north London.

Okay.

Horse

[Old bones Ian]

I've never had a problem with Colin Hart, sometimes i wouldn't agree with what he's said or wrote, but thats life. At least he attends the fights and has a genuine passion for the game.

[banjo]

I don't think Tyson ranks amongst the top heavyweights in history and am annoyed that many people's mythical match-ups go along the lines of 'the Tyson that fought Spinks vs the Lewis that lost to McCall'. So many excuses are made for him yet with other fighters the complete opposite is true. Part of the mystique I guess.

However he does deserve to be in the HOF on achievement, and his biggest achievement for me was unifying the titles at only 21 after only 2 years as a pro. I didn't appreciate the significance of this as a 12 year old at the time but f*ck me that's some achievement.

Yep, most fighters haven't won a national title in that time, 29 fights in 2 years that's almost a career nowadays.

[ThereByTheGrace]

For boxing achievements and entertainment to the fans - Tyson deserves his place. Save the political mumbo jumbo for the courts - give him his due.

[nobby_nobbins]

Yes, but Hart is a journalist - so there's an onus on him to know how to pronounce the fighters names. Boxers are paid to fight, not write or speak.

Yes that's true - but in the bit I quoted, Oliver was referring to some bloke he heard - not to Colin Hart. I certainly agree with you that Colin Hart should get the names right.