Super Bantam - grittiest division in past 20 years?

[Autobarn]

at 122 pounds we've seen some of the great modern fights. wilfredo gomez outlasting lupe pintor in an epic, back in the early 80s setting the standard. more recently, there's been furious battles like barrera-mckinney and barrera-morales 1.

at this weight they seem to fight so much harder. some traditionalists see 122-pounds as a weight for guys who are too big for bantam and too small for feather, a weight class cooked up between the WBC and wilfredo gomez's promoter. and while fights like gomez-pintor, daniel zaragoza v tatsuyoshi 1, 2 & frankie duarte, israel vazquez-jhonny gonalez/rafael marquez 1,2, 3 and others involve men beating guys moving up in weight, super bantam's housed some fighters of massive grit and persistence.

i'm thinking daniel zaragoza, who after losing the WBC bantam crown, won the super bantam version 3 times. zaragoza would come back from beatings (cut up badly in rematches with tracy harris patterson and paul banke) to regain his title. after losing to thierry jacob he failed three times to win the title, but kept plugging away, winning it back.

and toshiaki nishioka is agreat example, failing 4 times to win bantam belt from great thai veeraphol before grabbing the WBC title at 122 pounds and cementing it with a superb performance vs mando rendall munroe. i wonder if he can remain champion til he's 37 (about 35 now) as zaragoa was when he beat mccullough/lost to morales.

thoughts?

[Datsue]

Zaragoza was pushing forty when he lost to Morales, mate. I think two months away from his birthday. Nishioka's got another five years to go yet.

[Autobarn]

oh, was DZ 37 when he won the WBC title back for the last time? and 38/39 when he lost to morales? i know 37 wasakey #for zaragoza. anyway it isn't the only point i am making. no doubt nishioka would not want to be still boxing when he's 37 though it's possible givn his skill and slow burn career. i hope he targets that ring mag title by beating rival champ ryol lilee and then faces top contender/ex champ poonsawat in what would be an outstanding matchup. nishioka's win over munroe - one of the biggest 122 fighters you'l see - was agreta example of skill, power, toughness and experienced gained in hardlessons.

israel vazquez is probably the epitome of 122pounds. not the most talented fighter not anatural flashy/powerful guy like gomez, for instance. took him along time to get good. failed his first try at a major title, an exciitng late stoppage to larios (their 2nd fight). won a version of the title, had somenarrow escapes. then in battle of champs he stops larios, who looks tight at the weight whereas vazquez seems to have peaked at the weight. then goes on brilliant run including savage come from behind stoppae of jhonny gonzalez and the rilogy with marquez(i'll call it trilogy as the first 3 weretitle fights and at122 pounds). the first marquez fight was a massive hurdle for vazquez, who had to retire from nose damage in a terrific shootout. after stopping marquez, there were no gimmes; immediate rematch again, with vazquez taking horirle facial damage to grind out the win with a final second sknockdown.

these guys seem to have to do more than top fighters of other divisions. it's one of the few divisions where the best have to still fight the best, in order to make the best money.

[Autobarn]

think nishioka will be a worthy sucessor to vazquez, who held the WBC title before him (both men have also stopped ivan hernandez and got up from the flor to stop jhonny gonzalez). he's talked of unification and the only fight that would mean anything is ryol li lee, WBA holder. this would restore lineage to the division, something vazquez had achieved. i don't think lee puts up much of afight after nishioka gets by the long reach. however, this fight would land him the WBA title and two of the leading contenders - poonsawat and satoshi hosono - would match brilliantly with nishioka. nishioka, southpaw technician with some power. poonsawat and hosono are obviously good little sluggers and extremely fierce. poonsawat beat hosono on a close decisiion in a marvelous little fight last year. hosono, like many japanese fighters thrown in over his head, can probably use the experience to improve and use the decision (bit closer than should have been, perhaps) to get more opportunities. nishioka vs poonsawat and hosono would be akin to daniel zaragoza's wars with paul banke, i'd wager.

[Diamond WEAPON]

I think some of this weight class' brilliance lies in the fact that it's big enough for shorter statured guys to make or drain down to and maintain pretty brutal strength (compared to your average joe) and speed, but not positively tiny/skinny like 105-112 where similar kinds of outright destructive power is much rarer and a brighter spot when it's found like with Segura or Gonzalez currently.

[Autobarn]

another thing is that it lacks the glamour of, say, the featherweights. obviously you have guys like barrera and morales who moved up and got some of the post naz, pre pac big money. super bantams are fortunate to get showtime (vazquez-marquez "trilogy") or HBO B.A.D. (zaragoza-mccullough and morales) and have to fight their arses off not always for the biggest gain.

really think the paradigm has shifted to the east, and with nishioka. he's had success, but he won't be able to get the big names (a weight below, donaire and montiel). if he gets a big fight, it'll probably be a high risk affair vs someone like vazquez jr (WBO champ), the only guy at 122 who can rival nishioka as a puncher. that would be interesting because - as i see it - this guy could be a kind of blood brother to zaragoza, israel vazquez. whereas vazquez jr continues a literal bloodline, that of his father who won many title fights at 122 pounds in the '90s. would e interesting if this fight happens (everyone else seems tied up).

[orbtastic]

I personally preferred Jones/McKinney to MAB/'Kinney.

[Autobarn]

jones-mckinney was a good 'un. mckinney was getting thrashed and then turned it round early. but i felt the 2 MAB fights (mckinney and morales 1) had way better sustained action.

[Datsue]

I personally preferred Jones/McKinney to MAB/'Kinney.

McKinney-Jones was great though, wasn't it? I mean it's worth watching just to see Junior reel across the ring like that at the end. JJ lost his legs in the third after decking KM; he ran out of gas & into about a dozen big right hands whilst pinning McKinney against the ropes & in the next round it was a great shot that ended it.

I really liked Kennedy, he was a dude. Jones was weird. He either could not take any kind of heavy shot (John Michael Johnson fight, even against Jorge Eliecier Julio) or stood up to punches that would've floored a barn & only went over when his legs seemed to get disconnected from his brain...

[Datsue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0JLgCFVwGc

"See this right hand? S'money, baby. Ain't no bank in America won't cash this!"

[orbtastic]

I liked McKinney, he was in some good fights - The two Ncita fights & the two Bungu fights and also the up and downer with Jones. He just wasn't big enough to compete at 126 - Espinosa crushed him easily, he seems to age as he takes that final combination on the ropes.

Jones was the epitome of chinny banger. They were kicking around a fight with Hamed for a while, particularly up at 126 which could have been interesting for a round or two until Hamed shattered his chin.