Hagler vs. Leonard Revisited

[IRLangmaid25]

I watched the fight last week and I had it 115-113 to Sugar Ray Leonard. I gave Leonard the first four rounds due to Hagler being such a slow starter. In rounds 5&6 Hagler was starting land more cleaner shots than Leonard so I had it 58-56 to Leonard at half. Then I gave them a round in in 7&8 which still kept Leonard two rounds up, and I definitely gave Hagler the 9th round, Leonard 10 and 11. With Hagler the last as he furiously went for the knockout, and that was how I had it. I just can't see how Jose Juan Guerra have it 118-110 to Leonard in my eyes.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

115-113 Leonard

[Seamus]

116-113 for Leonard

[Goodnight, Irene]

115-113 Leonard

Yup 8)

Although, Leonard was pretty disgraceful at times with his fouling, & I would not have objected to him suffering a point deduction or two. We all know that would never have happened, though.

[Flump]

115-113 Leonard

[SaadOffTheDeck]

115-113 Leonard

Yup 8)

Although, Leonard was pretty disgraceful at times with his fouling, & I would not have objected to him suffering a point deduction or two. We all know that would never have happened, though.

There was a lot of negativity in his performance, cue Alp ripping out his hair in a fit of rage, but it's hagler's own fault for trying to outbox him from a conventional stance for 4 rounds. That was like spotting someone balls in billiards.

[raylawpc]

Hagler, but I don't remember my score.

[man]

115-113 Leonard

Yup 8)

Although, Leonard was pretty disgraceful at times with his fouling, & I would not have objected to him suffering a point deduction or two. We all know that would never have happened, though.

would you be so kind and point out specific fouls on a youtube
clip of the fight? i am not a boxer and i sometimes seem to not
see foul play ... unless it is as obvious as tyson trying the elbow
fracture. mentioning tyson, i simply did not see holyfield
headbutting him ... i have the feeling the line of foul play is
pretty blurry. to me some styles might tend to lead to more
"fouls" without intentional foul play. i admit i even do not see
bernard hopkins as a particularly dirty fighter. slick yes, dirty
i don't know. but i am always willing to learn ...

[alexpaterson]

I've watched it a few times and always came out with the same score; 115-113 Leonard. I feel early in the fight he wasn't letting Hagler get set by throwing fast combo's and moving that stayed the same for the first 4 rounds, and then Hagler started to come on pounding Leonard to head and body not giving him time to move. I feel Leonard pulled out a few of the later rounds with fast combo's even though he was visibly knackered but Hagler just struggled to get to him in a couple of the late rounds. Good fight and a fair result IMO.

[Counter-puncher]

115-113 Leonard

Yup 8)

Although, Leonard was pretty disgraceful at times with his fouling, & I would not have objected to him suffering a point deduction or two. We all know that would never have happened, though.

would you be so kind and point out specific fouls on a youtube
clip of the fight?

holding is against the rules of boxing, so check out any given 30secs of the fight and it should see you right

[man]

holding is against the rules of boxing, so check out any given 30secs of the fight and it should see you right

ah, ok. i haven't seen the fight in a while but i do not
recall excessive holding. though i must say i am not
so fond of several things around leonard. i do not like
mocking the opponent in the ring, i just do not like it.

as for holding i never saw leonard doing it notoriously,
unlike ruiz and - i must say though i am kind of a fan -
wlad. as much as i think haye ducks wlad he has a point
with his phrase "jab, jab, grab, grab" ... but leonard?
really? i mean he ran and he did everything to neutralize
hagler's superior strength, but then again he stood and
flurried leaving himself open. i would call him in this
fight rather "smart" than "foul" ...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I've had the same score since the night of the fight. Most everyone in here is saying 7-5 Leonard, that isn't definitive.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Yup 8)

Although, Leonard was pretty disgraceful at times with his fouling, & I would not have objected to him suffering a point deduction or two. We all know that would never have happened, though.

would you be so kind and point out specific fouls on a youtube
clip of the fight?

holding is against the rules of boxing, so check out any given 30secs of the fight and it should see you right

Low blows & hitting on the break also appear routinely. I'm not going to break the fight down, start to finish, on YouTube, though. It's all there to see, man (Member).

[man]

would you be so kind and point out specific fouls on a youtube
clip of the fight?

holding is against the rules of boxing, so check out any given 30secs of the fight and it should see you right

Low blows & hitting on the break also appear routinely. I'm not going to break the fight down, start to finish, on YouTube, though. It's all there to see, man (Member).

watched it again. i guess you guys have a point.
i was not aware that his showboat armcircling
punch in one of the middle rounds was actually
a low blow. they showed it two or three times in
slowmo, pointing out how he could dare to do such
show against marvin, but no one mentioned it was
low. weird.

didn't see hitting on the break though. actually in
one round leonard really held back right after the
bell.

all in all i still see leonard winning, at least i did
not see hagler win the fight. steele could have
deducted a point, which would make it a draw in
my book. hagler should have gone for a rematch
instead of leaving ... that would have been the best
way to reply to the controversy.

[Ezzard]

I have to admit that when I watched it at the cinema on CCTV I thought Leonard won it easily, something like 8-3-1. When I watched it on the delayed broadcast the next evening I had it 7-5 or 6-5-1 (to Ray).

I was definitely caught up in the excitement of Leonard’s comeback.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

holding is against the rules of boxing, so check out any given 30secs of the fight and it should see you right

Low blows & hitting on the break also appear routinely. I'm not going to break the fight down, start to finish, on YouTube, though. It's all there to see, man (Member).

watched it again. i guess you guys have a point.
i was not aware that his showboat armcircling
punch in one of the middle rounds was actually
a low blow. they showed it two or three times in
slowmo, pointing out how he could dare to do such
show against marvin, but no one mentioned it was
low. weird.

didn't see hitting on the break though. actually in
one round leonard really held back right after the
bell.

all in all i still see leonard winning, at least i did
not see hagler win the fight. steele could have
deducted a point, which would make it a draw in
my book. hagler should have gone for a rematch
instead of leaving ... that would have been the best
way to reply to the controversy.

Hagler didn't have the option of a rematch until a year had passed. He desperately wanted an immediate one.

[man]

Hagler didn't have the option of a rematch until a year had passed. He desperately wanted an immediate one.

is that true? wow ... i must say i did not like SRL's move
to fight duran again so quickly due to duran's weight issues
too much as well. yes slick. yes smart. but not the real way
to do things imo ... whatever ... if the sun shines on you,
you seem to get away with everything ...

makes the kind of tragic figure hagler even more ... tragic.
probably the fight he thought most about after his retirement.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Absolutely true, Marvin retired because ray went sugar on him. It actually makes Marvin almost more awesome, but Leonard would have rather entered the Lions den than agree to a rematch.

[bennie]

I have to admit that when I watched it at the cinema on CCTV I thought Leonard won it easily, something like 8-3-1. When I watched it on the delayed broadcast the next evening I had it 7-5 or 6-5-1 (to Ray).

I was definitely caught up in the excitement of Leonard’s comeback.

This is exactly how it was for me. I thought Leonard won, regardless of what Hagler did or didn't do, physically and mentally.

[Rocky Balboa]

Hagler didn't have the option of a rematch until a year had passed. He desperately wanted an immediate one.

Leonard would never have given Hagler an Immediate rematch!

Once a year had gone by, Hagler was done. His Desire & dedication would never be the same again.

In an Immediate rematch, say some three/four months later, Hagler would have made sure second time around!

[dempseyfire]

At the time I thought Hagler won. Then I rewatched it years later and had Leonard 7-5. I rewatched it again earlier this year and scored it for Hagler by a point. Go figure . . .

[matko]

Who do you think won?
I feel Hagler may of overtrained for this 1 he didnt seem able to get his shots off seemed slower than usual and he has said he went into training camp 6 weeks earlier than normal?

[gilgamesh]

I scored it a draw. I could see it going to either man 115-113, but it went Leonard's way primarily because NOBODY thought he was going to put up the fight that he did after such a long layoff against a dominant Middleweight Champion

[raylawpc]

Haven't we had about 20 threads on this topic?

P.S.: I'm not picking on the thread's author, but The Forum Rules say, in pertinent part:

"10. USE THE SEARCH FEATURE BEFORE STARTING A NEW THREAD. CHECK TO SEE IF THERE IS A PREVIOUS THREAD ON YOUR TOPIC. REDUNDANT THREADS WILL BE DELETED."

[boxerbob]

i have never scored this fight for hagler although it was a very close fight , i always have it 115-113 or 115-114 leonard