Great if not for...

[theory]

Interesting topic.
Papke, Valdez and most of all Johnson are probably the best category 1. They are regarded as great, but would have been regarded as even greater if it was not for their nemesis.

I would add:
Sugar Ramos (lost to Saldivar)
Alfonso Zamora (lost to Zarate)
Liston
Maybe Curtis Cokes (lost to Napoles)

Have to think harder for Category 2

Alfonso Zamora is a good shout.

[Yes We Can]

Pipino cuevas for category 1? never seemed the same after the Hearns fight.

[keithmoonhangover]

Interesting topic.
Papke, Valdez and most of all Johnson are probably the best category 1. They are regarded as great, but would have been regarded as even greater if it was not for their nemesis.

I would add:
Sugar Ramos (lost to Saldivar)
Alfonso Zamora (lost to Zarate)
Liston
Maybe Curtis Cokes (lost to Napoles)

Have to think harder for Category 2

Liston is a crackin shout.

I think Foreman in his first career. Never the same after Ali.

[Ambling Alp]

I think Foreman may have lost to Young anyway, but we will never know. At the very least, he probably would have have been the champion for another 3 years and had another 6 title defenses or so.

Liston also probably would have been the champ for a few more years and had a few more title defenses.

Liston's rating as a fighter was probably hurt even more than Foreman when he lost the title; probably because he quit.

[keithmoonhangover]

I think Foreman may have lost to Young anyway, but we will never know. At the very least, he probably would have have been the champion for another 3 years and had another 6 title defenses or so.

Liston also probably would have been the champ for a few more years and had a few more title defenses.

Liston's rating as a fighter was probably hurt even more than Foreman when he lost the title; probably because he quit.

I agree Alp and I also think the rematch had a big effect on Liston's image and marketability. Quitting in one fight and losing in the first round, didn't set him up for another title shot.

[Diamond WEAPON]

I didn't say he was better off losing. I said your example doesn't belong in the thread and it definitely does not. Try reading the question again.

Thread Nazi.

It's pretty sad when you can't carry on a conversation because of some stupid internet grudge.

Would Erik Morales be greater if it wasn't for Manny Pacquiao? No, he would not. Same goes for pep. Nobody even rates Saddler ahead of him as a featherweight. That should tell you something. But since it's coming from me I'm sure you wont be able to accept the obvious truth. Whatever floats your boat. It's a good thread and I'm not going to bother carrying on with you.

The context of the fights count for a lot. Pep had those fights with Saddler after a career-threatening plane crash, most people don't even survive that type of stuff. Morales is pretty fairly recognized to have been beyond his functional prime by the time those fights with Pacquiao took place. The Morales of years prior wasn't losing to no Zahir Raheem.

[orbtastic]

Reid's team rushed him because of his eye. He was good enough to beat Boudouani, who was half decent and won the title by KOing long time holder Vasquez.