Mythical matchups, could Marciano beat

[Irishlad69]

Of the fighters mentioned, [i think fighters prior to rocky, like johnson, dempsey, tunney, and louis would have beaten him], i feel that rocky would have beaten liston by weaving under sonny's painfully slow arching hooks, and come underneath with shorter, more damaging shots. Rocky was always critical of liston's regimental upright stance, and felt he could have shortened his punches. Foreman's had a better chin than liston, and would hold up long enough for him to do the nasty on the smaller, square on, ever-advancing marciano. Ali would shine against rocky, shocking him with a snappy jab, bamboozling him with hand and foot speed, ans actually engaging rocky with surprising success in the trenches. Lennox gets poleaxed with a suzy-q over his perpetually low left. LOL.

[Tantum]

I think most people underestimate Walcott's ability.

Someone said...

Rocky neveer fought anyone with handspeed, movement, and power like Tyson.

I think P4P Walcott would have destroyed -any- version of Tyson.

Ezzard Charles was also rather amazing.

You people seem to give the champs that are followed by less enthusiastic fans alot less credit than they deserve.

Regardless of Ezzard's, and Joe's age, they were still the best in the division.

I think Joe Walcott, and Ezzard Charles would have beat Liston easily. Possibly beat a young Foreman(that's coming from a big Foreman fan). They would have given Ali HELL. and frustrate Tyson into fouling out.

[6 Pack]

I still don't think you can name a fighter Rocky fought that was 220 lbs. and had the handspeed and power that a prime Tyson from the '80s had.

Tyson was a phemnom for his day some 30 years after Rocky. In Rocky's day Tyson would have been just as unstoppable. A 37 year old Walcott would not have beaten Tyson.

Can you imagine a Tyson in that time period? Remember Rocky came at a time when the best heavyweights were on their way out. It was not a very thick field. Rocky retire before Liston and Paterson came around.

I give respect for Walcott, great fighter, but he was KOed half a dozen times, and beaten 18 times in 72 bouts. He could be beaten. Tyson in his prime was a very gifted fighter.

Today people tend to look back at him and think as long as you stuck up to him he would fold or foul out. If it was that easy he would have lost more than once during his prime (before Prison).

Foreman would have beaten them in my opinion. He hit sooo hard. But those two could box. If they could extend Foreman they would have a chance.

I don't think they would beat Liston. Liston hit like a mack truck. don't watch the ALi fights and think that is what he looked like in his prime. He was no where near as slow as people think. He looked like garbage against ALi. But he was impressive in his prime (as a contender, and some said uncrowned champ).

[Irishlad69]

I think you would find that dempsey, considering the disparity of time was a more effective two-handed hitter than tyson. Loius was the cleanest knockout puncher ive ever seen on tape, with a SNAP to his hooks that was far more important in bringing down an opponent than the bludgeoning, yet telegraphed heavy handedness displayed by liston, or foreman. Marciano had superior raw power to tyson, but lacked mike's speed, accuracy, and delivery.

[Tantum]

How you could say something as stupid as Liston was better than Foreman ever was... is beyond me.

How can you possibly say I'm making uneducated posts, you're the one saying Marciano is weak, Walcott sucks, and Liston was better, and hit harder than Foreman.

Jaclem, Or Tomato Can.... who was better, Foreman, or Liston?

I think that will settle the "any half educated fan" comment.

[Broncano]

I say Liston, Tantum, and one of the reasons is because my father was at Comiskey Park in 1962, and he swears to me he's never seen a performance as brutal as Sonny's destruction of Floyd Patterson. I've heard him (my old man) tell the tale of how Sonny hammered Patterson with two left hooks and a right a thousand times.
Im by no means that old, but old enough to have seen Foreman in his prime, and it seems fair to ask whether he was better than Liston. Nothing uneducated about it. Don't ask my dad, though. Hell, He'll tell you Liston would murder Foreman...and Marciano...and Tyson...and Lewis (if he'd bothered to see his fights). Now, Ali is another story.

[Irishlad69]

Hey tantrum, why arent i mentioned as an elite poster, lol, as you can see my breakdowns clearly exceed the two mentioned! But i am going to say something that may irk you, when i say that liston would have beaten foreman. George was a very formidable presense in the early rounds against any fighter, but when he couldnt get the early knockout, he became frustrated and his power, composure, and stamina completely dissapated as a fight wore on. Liston's power matched foreman's [according to common opponent chuck wepner sonny was the harder hitter], and he was a better, more composed technical boxer than george. I see him matching foreman's thunder in the early rounds, and hurting george with more accurate shots, from the fourth round on, he'll dominate foreman with his ramrod jab, thus draining him of will. The stoppage will come in the ninth round, after two weighty hooks from sonny.

[pvdh62]

Prime

1) Liston
2) Foreman
3) Ali
4) Tyson
5) Lewis


I say
1) no
2) no
3) no
4) no
5) no

I say; you're right. Marciano would even get KO/TKO'd by all of them.

[Pacquiao#1]

my calculations are
1. yes Liston good but not good enough
2. yes too big and slow, would be pounded by rocky's elusive punches
3. easy Ali no match for rocky's power
4. yes hard but marciano wins
5. yes Lewis would get dimantled
6. Pacquiao- why h*** no, Pacquiao is way to quick and powerful for Marciano

[Pacquiao#1]

Umm the purpose of this thread was to give an opinion and I gave mine.


Sorry but I don't think you have the grounds to tell me if I am right or wrong and I have given the reason why I think what I think so that settles it.

well people do have the right to tell your that your opinion is wrong if it is. and yes your opinion is wrong, very wrong, Marciano is the second greatest boxer ever, second only to pacquiao

[gregorycmcintosh]

One thing to consider is that in today's boxing environment, if a fighter is bleeding badly (regardless of his will to continue fighting), the referee and/or doctor is likely to stop the fight. This did not happen as much in the past. And Marciano was a bleeder. If in any of these mythical match-ups he fought in today's boxing world, he would have lost more of these fights to TKOs.

Just one man's opinion.

[tea]

No chance!!!!!

Most of todays Super Middles are as big as Marciano.

Butterbean would have knocked out most of yester-years champions.

[Sweet Scientist]

bump...a couple new guys might be interested in the opinions offered in this old thread...

[Marciano Frazier]

to give the stumble bum his due,Marciano was knocked down just twice....once by a solid left hook from Walcott in Marciano's first title fight and second in is last one by a terrific right hand from Archie Moore..and he got right back up both times.

Don't know if he was wobbled or not....the way he lurched around the ring made it hard to tell. But, in the first Charles fight, he came roaring out in his usual style and Charles stood his ground and Marciano stopped and got a little more cautious. Years later he said he never thought he could reeally be hurt in the ring until the fight with Ezzard.

Oh, really? That is odd, because one of the first things Marciano said after the Charles fight was that Charles didn't sting him like Walcott did.

As for that list, I would say he COULD beat any of them, as in fact he COULD beat anyone, but on the subject of whether I think he WOULD:

1) even odds
2) No
3) No
4) Yes
5) Yes

Rocky's style was tailor-made for Foreman, and although I give him a better chance and would expect him to do better against Foreman than Frazier, I would still expect Marciano to be TKO'd in the first five rounds against Big George.
Liston presents a similar bad style match-up, but Liston's less aggressive style and lack of intangibles gives Marciano a very strong chance at wearing him down and winning late.
Marciano actually has a very good style to trouble Ali, as Ali always struggled with the small, busy swarmer types, but on the other hand, Ali's height and reach along with his ring generalship would be a serious problem for Marciano, with his lack of balance, and I think this would be the fight where Rocky's tendency to cut would finally catch up with him.
A young Mike Tyson is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. People think of him as the second coming of King Kong on steroids. On the other hand, Marciano is commonly pictured(as by my friend in the above post) as a bumbling idiot who blocked punches with his face and only won because his opponents were a collection of hundred-year-old midgets who'd escaped from the circus. Both these perceptions are badly inaccurate.
Tyson has always been a badly overrated fighter. Notice how virtually all his losses were fights in which virtually everyone mopcked the very idea of him losing? This is because the aura, the public image that Tyson has acquired from his early days, has grown into mythic proportions, to the point where people think of a young Mike Tyson as an unstoppable monster from Hell. The truth is that Tyson was the style of fighter who looks very impressive winning and is always very overrated, as is often proven by results.
For instance, Jack Dempsey follows this mould. Note that I consider Dempsey a great champion and one of the top 10 heavyweights of all time. However, Dempsey was overrated in his time, much like Tyson. Experts saw him give fantastic, dominating performances against men who made him look like a pip squeak, and Dempsey developed an aura, a public image, that made experts and fans overrate his ability in virtually every subsequent match. Bill Brennan wasn't supposed to have a chance, but he had Dempsey in serious trouble in the second round and lasted all the way to the 12th in a very even match before Dempsey finally ended matters. Luis Firpo was supposed to be a walk-over for Dempsey, but Dempsey found himself knocked clear out of the ring and only managed to win by the skin of his teeth. Years later, even when it should have been a dead-ringer for an upset when Dempsey had been inactive for three years, the experts still said he was going to just blow through Tunney, no problem, and yet again it turned out to the opposite.
Even right now, Manny Pacquiao pulled off a spectacular win over Marco Antonio Barrera and was almost immediately annointed the next legend by the press, but in subsequent fights he has proven very much only to be on the same level with the other top fighters in his weight-class- it's just that when he wins, he looks like an all-powerful destroyer in the process, whereas Barrera and Morales usually just soundly dispatch their opponents in workmanlike fashion.
Fighters with Mike Tyson's fighting style are constantly overestimated off their most impressive performances. It is the opposite for a fighter like Marciano, though. Rocky looked clumsy, awkward, and inaccurate in the ring. Throughout his career, experts and fans continually underestimated his ability in fight after fight.
Marciano was supposed to be cannonfodder against Bobby Quinn and Eddie Ross, two far-more-experiened and more polished prospects he fought in his first five professional bouts. Those guys were supposed to polish him off in a couple rounds, but things turned out just the opposite. Throughout much of his early career, critics gave poor reviews of Marciano- Don Dunphy saw him fight once and decided he was nothing more than a good journeyman. Rex Layne was supposed to beat Marciano, then Joe Louis was supposed to beat Marciano. Marciano had to prove himself time and time again before the experts would accept that he was actually a top heavyweight.
This is not due to ability, but to the way Marciano looked in the ring. He was not always devastating, due to his cruder technique, short arms, and lack of balance. He didn't just tear people to pieces the way Tyson did. But the fact is, his style was, in truth, more effective in the long run. Marciano had attributes you couldn't look at and assess from ringside the way you could with someone's handspeed or head movement or footwork. Marciano's missed punches looked ugly- they made people think he was just a clutz, but in truth, they served a very important purpose.
By simply throwing in high volumes with real knockout power behind virtually every punch, Marciano made up for his inaccuracy and lesser technique. It looked ugly, but it worked like a charm. That's the way he was in virtually every department.
Marciano was also, in fact, a difficult fighter to hit cleanly. If anyone is about to laugh at me, I suggest you go back and watch film of his fights again, but look more carefully this time. No, he doesn't bob and weave all that much, and he doesn't dance around the ring, but he has a subtle and effective defense all the same. His chin was always well tucked down and difficult to get at, his crouching stance made him hard to get at with body shots or most other forms of effective punching, and the angle he comes in at, along with the way he holds his right glove, actually does a very effective job of offsetting opponents' jabs and causing them to miss or glance off harmlessly.

These are some quotes from the 2001 interviews done by Russell Sullivan with Marciano's former opponents:
After the Marciano rematch in 1953, LaStarza was asked in what area Marciano had most improved since their first fight, and he responded, "In defense. It was harder to get at him.

Keene Simmons, an eighth-round knockout victim of Marciano, and a frequent sparring partner of his, said "He fools you. When you look at him from outside the ring, he seems easy to hit, but if you're in the ring with him, you find this isn't the case.

Angelo Dundee(not a former opponent, though, of course ) said of Marciano, "Rocky was a very deceiving guy. He[Goldman] taught Rocky so well that he used to slip on punches. He was not that easy to hit."

Now, I'm telling you, it is obvious from results in both Tyson and Marciano's actual careers that Tyson was a very overrated fighter and Marciano a very underrated one. I believe that carries over here. A lot of people probably envision Tyson just tearing Marciano to shreds in the first round and leaving him in a twitching heap on the canvas.
I imagine Marciano would probably be behind at the halfway point of the fight, but this fight would not be a slaughter. Tyson was not a slick boxer like a Walcott or Charles- he would actually have a harder time getting at Marciano, and he would also not be able to outpoint him consistently the way they would, because Tyson would be right there in the trenches with Rocky, where both men would be in their element. This would be a competitive fight from the onset, probably with Tyson ahead early, and as it progressed, Marciano would gradually take over as Tyson tired and grew discouraged, while if anything Marciano simply got stronger and stronger. Marciano would stop him around the 10th round.

Now, after that huge rant, going on to Marciano against Lewis, I'll start by saying that the size difference would not be nearly the factor in this fight that many probably believe it would be. Marciano's entire style was built around overcoming size disadvantages and getting in close where his short arms would be an advantage. Of course Lewis is a FAR more extreme case than any of Marciano's other opponents, but it is the same element stylistically.
Fighters stylistically similar to Marciano, such as Harry Greb, Jack Dempsey, and Mickey Walker(yes, he lost to Schmeling, but he also drew with Jack Sharkey and beat big heavyweight contender Bearcat, who was more than 6" taller and over 40 pounds heavier than him, and this guy was a former welterweight) have historically had immense success against much bigger men. That is where Marciano's style came from- it is made for smaller, shorter-armed men to use against bigger foes.
In my opinion, a Lewis blow-out, which is, again, probably a common pick here, is not a likely outcome. I highly doubt Lewis would be aggressive against an opponent like Marciano. Lewis would probably stay back and look to establish the jab from the outside, then tie Marciano up when he got in close. This style would work for a few boring rounds, but the fact is, Lewis has always huffed and puffed down the stretch, even in 12-rounders, and he would have to keep up an unusually fast pace against Marciano, who would take Lewis far out of his comfort zone, that being gradually picking off other big men with far less skill than himself from long range.
Lewis would tire down the stretch and Marciano would catch him and put him down for good. You'll notice Marciano fights generally follow a similar pattern to this one, as Marciano often lost the early rounds against opponents with physical or skill advantages over himself, but his power, durability, workrate, stamina, and heart always came through for him down the stretch as his opponents faded.

So in the end, I predict a 2-2-1 record for Marciano against these five fighters.

[Grimm]

1.no
2.no
3.no
4.no
5.yes

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

1. HE WEARS DOWN LISTON AND KNOCKS HIM OUT LATE IN ABOUT THE 11TH. LISTON WOULD BUST HIM UP A LITTLE WITH THE JAB BUT MARCIANO I THINK THRE FASTER PUNCHES AND COULD GET THE SUZIE Q OVER HIS JAB AND HIS RELENTLESS BODY PUNCHING AND NON STOP UNCHING WOULD GET TO LISTON. LISTON ALSO HASNT SHOWN THE HEART TO COMEBACK FROM ADVERSY. MARCIANO IS A FIGHTER WHOS IS WILLING TO DIE ANDRISK ANYTHING JUST NOT TO LOSE. MARCIANO SHOWN WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH HE CAN WIN IT.
2. TOSS UP MARCIANO KO LATER ROUNDS. I THINK HEARTS AND TOUGHNESS WILL DECIDE , SO I THINK ISNCE MARCIANO'S STYLE IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT THAT FRAIZERS AND HE HAD POWER IN BOTH HANDS NOT TO MENTION HE COULD THROW SHORT HARD POWER PUNCHES LIEK LOUIS INSIDE FOREMANS CLUBS. I SAY MARCIANO KO 8 OR 9. BUT IF HE GETS CAUGHT BAD EARLY, FOREMAN BY EARLY STOPPAGE.

3. I ALWAYS THOUGHT HE HAD THE STYLE TO BEAT ALI. BUT ALI HAD JUST AS MUCH HEART AND TOUGHNESS AND A GOOD CHIN AND COULD BOX AND JAB HARD. ALI ALSO HAS UNDERESTIMATED STRENTGH NOT TO MENTION INCREDIBLE SPEED. ALI COULD NOT TO ROPE DOPES AGINST MARCIANO OR TRY HIS ROUGH RING ANTICS, THAT WOULD BE A BIG MISTAKE. HE WOULD HAVE TO STAY OUTSIDE AND OUTBOX HIM AND NOT LET MARCIANO GET INSIDE. CAN HE DO IT?? PROBABLY. I THINK MARCIANO WOULD MANAGE TO LAND A LOT OF DAMAGEING BLOWS. Ali by close decision.

4. gREAT mATCHUP AND TOUGH FOR MARCIANO. TYSON HAS VERY QUICK HANDSPEED AND I THINK MORE POWER. MARCIANO IS TOUGH AND HAS MORE HEART AND I DO THINK MARCIANO COULD USE HIS TOUGH RELENTESS NON STOP PUNCHING TO WEAR DOWN TYSON AND FRUSTRATE HIM , AND MARCIANO CANNOT BE BULLIED AND TYSON DOESNT LIKE THAT. MARCIANO WILL STAND UP TO HIM AND LAND HARD SHOTS TO HIS ARMS AND RIBS AND HEAD AND TYSON MIGHT LOSE IT MENTALLY. AND WHILE TYSONS WORST ROUNDS WERE LATER IN THE FIGHT, MARCIANO GOT STRONGER INTO THE FIGHT.
MARCIANO TKO 10 OVER TYSON

5. lENNOX HAS GOT A HUGE SIZE ADVATAGE AND REACH ADVANTAGE BUT NOT STRENTGH. MARCIANO HAD IMMENSE UPPER BODY STRENTGH AND TREE TRUUNK LEGS. MARCIANO ALSO HAS A GOOD CHIN THAT CAN HANDLE SOME OF LEWIS HARD PUNCHES. MARCIANO WILL GET LOW IN A CROUCH AND LEWIS AND BANG TO THE BODY AND HEAD AND SLOWLY WEAR LEWIS DOWN BUT THE REAL REASON LEWIS WILL LOSE THIS FIGHT HIS HIS CHIN AND THAT HES A SUCKER FOR A RIGHT HAND. MARCIANO WILL GET THAT RIGHT HAND ON HIM AND WHEN HE DOES LEWIS IS OUT. LEWIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A SUCKER FOR A RIGHT BECAUS HE GETS SO LAZY WITH THE LEFT JAB. MARCIANO ko 6

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

i THINK THAT THE FACT THAT MARCIANO HAD POWER IN BOTH HANDS AND A LOT OF STAMINA IN STRENTGH WOULD HELP HIM DEFEAT LISTON. MARCIANO WAS ALSO really hard to hit FLUSH OR CLEANLY rather than just be hit. liston wont be popping his jab hard in their every time. plus marcianos could also throw hard short punches like he did in his decapitation of walcott. those hard inside punches could get inide a looping liston left hook. also liston was NOT MUCH BIGGER. HE WAS 215 LB , U MAKE HIM OUT TO BE A HHUGE 240 LBS GUY. ALI WAS A LOT BIGGER THNAN LISTON OR SO I THOUGHT WHEN I SAW THEM IN THE RING. MARCIANO ALSO WANST MUCH WEAKER THAN LISTON. MARCIANO HAD THE STRENTGH TO TASKE AND DELIVER. MARCIANO DID NOT FIGHT OUT OF A PEEK A BOO LIEK PATTERSON. SO DONT COMPARE MARCIANOS STLYE TO PATTERSON NOR MARCIANOS CHIN TO PATTERSON. but marciano will pour in on to liston in later rounds and who knows how liston can deal with that.

i think about the ali fight. marciano did have a good chance of winning. but i als othink that if frazier fought the 66 ali ali would have won closely, cause he was lot quicker and thats what how he would beat marciano. ali was also a sucker to left hooks, not right hands which marciano had a deadly punch. so thought marciano had a decent left, it wasnt his knockout punch.

so 1. yes
2. toss up, i think marciano can survive and win but debatable cause bad style for marciano
3. no close fight
4. yes
5. yes

[Jaclem]

..marcianoi/frazier.....yes...really. when he said he realized he could be hurt, he was referring to being injured..something he never thought of before....that the walcott knockdown didn't bother him much...though he did say walcott had him shaky and hurt a couple of times...but not hurt in the sense that his reference to charles meant.

[Gordon]

Going to throw my tuppence worth in here.

1) Liston...Interesting fight, Sonny I believe is the superior boxer of the two and has devastating power in both hands. I think Rocky has more heart and a more durable chin than is given credit for. Unless Sonny catches him early(Which is very possible) Rocky wins in a late TKO,

2) Foreman... Just as powerful a hitter if not more than Liston. If he can't KO an opponent early on he loses heart and tends to hang in for a points win. I don't see him Hanging in with Marciano. If Rocky survives early bombing from the big guy then once again I will go for the Rock late on.

3) Ali...This fight will be closer than most ppl think. Depending on the atitude Ali brings with him. If we see him on his toes and boxing then yes, we see him cut Rocky to shreds and winning a TKO on cuts. But if Ali fights in stops and starts like Frazier at Manila then I see it going the distance with Ali winning a close decision

4) Tyson... I liked Mike when he burst on to the scene at first. Then the flaws/cracks started to appear. Rocky's management team would also have seen this and would exploit this into a Marciano KO after 4

5) Lewis... If Lennox can stay away from Rocky for the first 4 or 5 rounds then I think he could win late on or on a UD. But he has to get past those early rounds.

[tiredoldngrey]

Reading this debate brings a couple of things to mind... Marciano's defense is underrated and the reason he got hit misunderstood. He advanced in a crouch, his weight back, not forward like FRazier, and I don't believ his problem was in getting peppered with jabs. First because his head was well back and thus reaching him meant really extending that jab amnd the Rock's best punch was the right. (also one helluva counter for the jab) Where he got hit was in reaching too far with his punches and in the midrange, where he had to live due to his short arms. Proof is in the way his opponents fought him; Walcott and Charles, both expected to and capable of boxing, moving from a distance both elected to take the fight inside. If you are of the belief that he ate every punch thrown, it would be wothwhile to go back and watch him a bit more, because he was better than given credit for. Also he KOs the 70s version of Foreman in 4-7 rounds, depending how well George is taking them that day. Foreman pushed Frazier back, making him come up from the crouch but that tactic doesn't apply here because Rocky was already back. Foreman would reach and get countered hard.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

triedoldngrey wrote:

Reading this debate brings a couple of things to mind... Marciano's defense is underrated and the reason he got hit misunderstood. He advanced in a crouch, his weight back, not forward like FRazier, and I don't believ his problem was in getting peppered with jabs. First because his head was well back and thus reaching him meant really extending that jab amnd the Rock's best punch was the right. (also one helluva counter for the jab) Where he got hit was in reaching too far with his punches and in the midrange, where he had to live due to his short arms. Proof is in the way his opponents fought him; Walcott and Charles, both expected to and capable of boxing, moving from a distance both elected to take the fight inside. If you are of the belief that he ate every punch thrown, it would be wothwhile to go back and watch him a bit more, because he was better than given credit for. Also he KOs the 70s version of Foreman in 4-7 rounds, depending how well George is taking them that day. Foreman pushed Frazier back, making him come up from the crouch but that tactic doesn't apply here because Rocky was already back. Foreman would reach and get countered hard.

Tiredoldngrey, i think this is a very good explanation on how marcianos style was a bit different that fraziers and how it woulkd give marciano the advantage. when everyone thinks of marciano -foreman they say, foreman would have knocked out marciano just like he did frazier. they think marciano is exactely like frazier which hes not. frazier does have similarities of rock like body punching, stamina, and toughness, but when it comes to stradegy, they fight differently. thats why i think marciano probaly would have knocked out foreman in the middle to late rounds.

[Grimm]

triedoldngrey wrote:

Reading this debate brings a couple of things to mind... Marciano's defense is underrated and the reason he got hit misunderstood. He advanced in a crouch, his weight back, not forward like FRazier, and I don't believ his problem was in getting peppered with jabs. First because his head was well back and thus reaching him meant really extending that jab amnd the Rock's best punch was the right. (also one helluva counter for the jab) Where he got hit was in reaching too far with his punches and in the midrange, where he had to live due to his short arms. Proof is in the way his opponents fought him; Walcott and Charles, both expected to and capable of boxing, moving from a distance both elected to take the fight inside. If you are of the belief that he ate every punch thrown, it would be wothwhile to go back and watch him a bit more, because he was better than given credit for. Also he KOs the 70s version of Foreman in 4-7 rounds, depending how well George is taking them that day. Foreman pushed Frazier back, making him come up from the crouch but that tactic doesn't apply here because Rocky was already back. Foreman would reach and get countered hard.

Tiredoldngrey, i think this is a very good explanation on how marcianos style was a bit different that fraziers and how it woulkd give marciano the advantage. when everyone thinks of marciano -foreman they say, foreman would have knocked out marciano just like he did frazier. they think marciano is exactely like frazier which hes not. frazier does have similarities of rock like body punching, stamina, and toughness, but when it comes to stradegy, they fight differently. thats why i think marciano probaly would have knocked out foreman in the middle to late rounds.

Wait wait....Frazier was one of the best body punching heavyweights of all time. He had good stamina also and he was tough. I'm not saying he was better than Marciano I'm just saying Frazier is not given some credit here.

[BrocktonBlockbuster49]

Grimm, I give frazier all the dredit in the world. not only did i respect and love the man as a fighter, but i thought he was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. hes rated # 6 on my list. i was by now way tarnishing fraziers ability. i said he was similiar to marciano in the concept of both fighters had a lot of heart and stamina and both were the best body punching heavyweights. i simply said fraziers style is a little different and fraziers style is made for foreman while, marcianos style is a little different so he has more of an advantage against foreman. people have been saying foreman knocked out frazier, hell knock out marciano. just cause he beat frazier people are thinking hell clobber marciano, but marciano does have a little different style than frazier and i think it will help him al ot more if he had fought george. frazier gets all the credit in the world, its just foreman will always be a bad fighter for him.

[Grimm]

Grimm, I give frazier all the dredit in the world. not only did i respect and love the man as a fighter, but i thought he was one of the greatest heavyweights of all time. hes rated # 6 on my list. i was by now way tarnishing fraziers ability. i said he was similiar to marciano in the concept of both fighters had a lot of heart and stamina and both were the best body punching heavyweights. i simply said fraziers style is a little different and fraziers style is made for foreman while, marcianos style is a little different so he has more of an advantage against foreman. people have been saying foreman knocked out frazier, hell knock out marciano. just cause he beat frazier people are thinking hell clobber marciano, but marciano does have a little different style than frazier and i think it will help him al ot more if he had fought george. frazier gets all the credit in the world, its just foreman will always be a bad fighter for him.

OIC

[Jaclem]

..brocktonbuster.....i have alot of respect for your admiration for marciano and you give good arguments in his favor.

alas....they wouldn't help him against foreman. marciano's greatest asset....moreso than his punch or chin....which were both formidable...was his strength....astonishing for a man his size. but..against foreman it would be more than nullified.....foreman may have been the strongest heavy champ we've ever had and there's no way marciano could bull him around. if he fought foreman he'd be in danger of getting decapitated.

i know...i know...early foreman had stamina problems....but against the much smaller marciano that wouldn't come into play...foreman would get him out early.