History Repeating...

[Goodnight, Irene]

I was just noticing the likenesses between Ali-Foreman and Holyfield-Tyson. They are striking.

Big, brutish puncher with an aura of invincibility which by itself was a weapon against lesser guys, against a supposedly washed-up, lighter puncher who had seen better days but out-psyched as much as they out-fought their younger, heavily-favoured foe.

Holmes-Shavers, with Dempsey and Tunney, is another. Master boxer schools huge puncher to a wide decision in first bout, then needs to get off the deck from a famous moment (Long count, and THAT Shavers punch) to win a fight they dominate every other moment of. I think it was even the same round for both knockdowns (7th?).

What are some other examples of striking similarities?

[Goodnight, Irene]

sonny liston & mike tyson have a lot of similarities where u could say tyson was having liston's history repeat itself (minus the whole strange death)

Probably will happen. If I had to predict the next dead HW champ, it would be Ali, Ellis or Tyson.

[yancey]

sonny liston & mike tyson have a lot of similarities where u could say tyson was having liston's history repeat itself (minus the whole strange death)

Wasn't Liston an idol for Tyson?

I remember Tyson invoking Liston's name in an unbelievable post-fight rant to Jim Gray.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Most of the early interviews of Tyson have him citing Dempsey as his foremost idol (he admits to copying Dempsey's no-socks, robeless look and shoulder bob en route to the ring). Tyson at one point looks at Jim Jacobs while being interviewed and says with a child-like innocence, "I would like to fight all the great fighters on this film --- except for Jack Dempsey. Id be more happier (sic) working in his corner, carrying his spit bucket or doing something to help him."

He may have drawn inspiration from Liston too, mind. He mentions both champions in the interview you refer to, Yance.

[yancey]

Most of the early interviews of Tyson have him citing Dempsey as his foremost idol (he admits to copying Dempsey's no-socks, robeless look and shoulder bob en route to the ring). Tyson at one point looks at Jim Jacobs while being interviewed and says with a child-like innocence, "I would like to fight all the great fighters on this film --- except for Jack Dempsey. Id be more happier (sic) working in his corner, carrying his spit bucket or doing something to help him."

He may have drawn inspiration from Liston too, mind. He mentions both champions in the interview you refer to, Yance.

Yes, I checked it out on youtube....

"My style is impetuous. My defense is inpregnable. I'm Sonny Liston! I'm Jack Dempsey! I'm cut from their cloth!"

I think I have it about right, lol.

At one point, Tyson was thrilling to me and he brought me back to boxing after a period of disinterest. I thought he was going to be the all-time heavyweight juggernaught. Man, I love the bring it to you primal style. Too bad it came apart for Tyson.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Honestly, Foreman love aside, Im just the reverse. Your Benitez's, Pep's, etc. I just cannot hide my admiration and attraction toward.

Even so, you cant deny the magnetism of a Dempsey or Tyson, even if they arent your preference.

[Crease]

sugar ray leonard & floyd mayweather jr. - lots of history repeating with these two.

Except that Leonard fought his top rivals - Hagler, Hearns & Duran.
Mayweather has not as of yet - Cotto, Pacquaio.

[Bricks]

I was just noticing the likenesses between Ali-Foreman and Holyfield-Tyson. They are striking.

Big, brutish puncher with an aura of invincibility which by itself was a weapon against lesser guys, against a supposedly washed-up, lighter puncher who had seen better days but out-psyched as much as they out-fought their younger, heavily-favoured foe.

You gotta be kidding you think Ali-Foreman , aged master boxer suddenly fighting in a harder era and struggling (against Norton and Frazier) v a young fearsome lion seemingly the undisputed champ of that era after destroying Norton and Frazier....... compares to a Holyfield , hardly ever a master boxer and coming off beatings from Bowe (twice) and Moorer, and not even even in hindsight one of the two HW's in the world at the time.....against a clearly to those really watching meek, desireless, fireless, Tyson pumped on weights and lacking his old skills.....that Tyson was no Foreman and that Holyfield was no Ali.....it was an event but unlike 1974 it wasnt the two best Hws fighting it out.....I see the point you're trying to make but its an ill conceived one.

[Goodnight, Irene]

No it isnt --- because Im comparing the situations and perceptions at the time, not the boxers themselves (of course 74 Ali is a better fighter than 96 Holyfield, and prime Foreman crushes 96 Tyson).

[Ezzard]

Biggest repeat for me is the rise of Dempsey and Tyson.

Johnson is an unmoveable champion. A guy who wins by slowing his opponent down, wearing him out with defensive skills, smothering attacks, stripping the morale of his challenger. He made the other guy wear himself out and then beat him. Rarely talking a flush shot. He made heavyweight boxing all about staying power. This continued even after he was dethroned (by a guy who outlasted him).

Then Dempsey comes along and starts annihilating his opposition. Scores exciting KOs against the top challengers of the day. Clears out the division in devastating fashion and then finally brutalises the champion, who up until then was considered extremely durable. On winning the title, the mountain climbed, he makes a few defences before becoming more interested in other pursuits. Maintains his power to the very end. Breaks the overriding philosophy of jab-jab-clinch.

Fast forward…

After the miracle of Zaire opponents are actually worried about unloading on Ali. Such was the power of the rope-a-dope opponents were intimidated. Ali seemed impervious to a KO punch and would get them at the end if they wasted too much energy. The paradigm became all about staying power. Pacing yourself. Outlasting your opponent. Holmes carried on with this philosophy. The HWs of the 80s took it to heart.

Then along comes Tyson. Like Dempsey he clears out the division. Becomes champ by massacring Spinks. Defends a few times before losing the title.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Good one, Ezz. Very good.

[Ezzard]

Good one, Ezz. Very good.

Cheers mate.

Does Lennox=Larry???

Both men not very popular. Both had long reigns, long reaches. Both took over following on from popular champs.

[Goodnight, Irene]

In the lineage, I have Lewis succeeding Briggs, so not exactly a popular champ D

But naturally, I take your point, he enters around the demise of Holyfield. Yes, the comparisons with Holmes are fair. Lewis was a (usually) safety-first guy who bored a lot of people and it was compounded by his peaking as more popular or exciting figures faded (Tyson, Foreman, and Holyfield, ala Ali, Frazier, and Foreman for Holmes). He was the consistent type who rarely grabbed you with a big moment, much like Holmes. Again like Holmes, hes getting way more love now than he did during his career.

[elmersalsa]

Ali and Duran similarities. both of them lost to their undefeated record vs their greatest rivals (Frazier and De Jesus) and both of them avenged them in '74. And both of them fought 3 times with their most famous foe in their respective weight class. Two classic rivalries.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Would argue Duran had more rivalry with Leonard than DeJesus.