Question for beaujack

[Bobby A.]

Thanks for your insights, Beaujack. Patterson had his critics who felt that he adopted a victim mentality and was a very different person when the cameras were not around. I wonder very much about this.

[Goodnight, Irene]

victim in what sense, precisely?

[beaujack]

Thanks for your insights, Beaujack. Patterson had his critics who felt that he adopted a victim mentality and was a very different person when the cameras were not around. I wonder very much about this.

Bobby, I have never heard that Patterson ever "adopted a victim persona".But he was a shy introvert
who kept to himself. As I posted prior,Floyd would get a great hand at amateur shows by fans as myself and others. Floyd was the ANTI-ALI....Quiet and humble...

[Bobby A.]

Regarding Patterson, I read a lot about him. Most of it was very positive and a real tribute to him. However, a Sports Illustrated article from the 60's described him as being grim almost to the point of surly in private. SI also said that Patterson did not act genuine in interviews cause he wanted people to like him.
Also , Cosell said Patterson's reactions to his defeats was calculated to get people to sympathize with him. Again, I just want to emphasize that almost everything else I read in my research-and I have read a lot-was very favorable towards Patterson.

[Bobby A.]

One last point about Patterson: According to Joe Frazier, Floyd never responded to a request for a loan to Frazier; that request was made by a mutual friend with Frazier's approval. Joe badmouthed Floyd very badly regarding this. frazier said he would not have minded a rejection but the silent treatment really steamed him.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Frazier asked for money? We know what for, or how much?

[CNorkusJr]

Regarding Patterson, I read a lot about him. Most of it was very positive and a real tribute to him. However, a Sports Illustrated article from the 60's described him as being grim almost to the point of surly in private. SI also said that Patterson did not act genuine in interviews cause he wanted people to like him.
Also , Cosell said Patterson's reactions to his defeats was calculated to get people to sympathize with him. Again, I just want to emphasize that almost everything else I read in my research-and I have read a lot-was very favorable towards Patterson.

Bobby- I had the pleasure of being around Floyd Patterson often after his boxing career was over. My father introduced him to me in the late 1960's and I met him on several occaisions after. He was one of the few NYS Athletic Commission Chairmen's that my father worked under as a referee. I sat next to Floyd several times at fights he went to in that capacity. He was a very relaxed figure,but smiled often and greeted all that he came into contact with. He was kind in signing autographs,but when business called he saw to it. In the late 1980's, I met Floyd after some time,and sad to say his memories were hard to recollect for him. I would think Boxing Dementia was prevalent with this. It soon consumed him his last days were very tough.

Here are some personal photos I took of him. In 1978, he was honored by the Downtown Athletic Club, NYC with the annual "Rocky Marciano Award"- "A Champion in The Ring, and A Champion in Life". One picture has him with Ernie Durando,Floyd and Billy Graham (who was a judge at that time). Another photo is Floyd greeting guest and my father with cigar. He never refused greeting anyone and signed autographs freely, all the times I was with him.

I would agree with Beau Jack that he was "quiet and humble" and would use few words to answer a question, but I wouldnt call him introverted after his career. Maybe during his career. As a Chairman of the NYS AC-he had to deal with many people, a position that didnt call for introverts, especially tough rulings on various matches. Around the Boxing clique he was quite comfortable,maybe not so with general public appearances.

[Bobby A.]

Great photos and thoughts about Patterson, Charley.
Regarding the incident about the requested loan from Patterson to Frazier: Joe said it was in 1964, after the Olympics. Joe's thumb was injured and he could neither box nor work; he said he had no food in the house for his family. The entire story is in SI, probably around 1966 or 1967. I will look for it and post the particular issue.

[Bobby A.]

The SI article about Frazier's animosity towards Patterson was October 3, 1966"A Clover in Need of a Loaf".

[Goodnight, Irene]

Thanks.

[Tinnie]

Hi Beau,

Did you ever dine at Jack Dempsey's Restaurant and meet The Manassa Mauler himself?

Cheers

[Bobby A.]

Beaujack: Did you see Sugar Ray fight Gavilan, Belloise or Georgie Abrams?

[beaujack]

Hi Beau,

Did you ever dine at Jack Dempsey's Restaurant and meet The Manassa Mauler himself?

Cheers

[barrack osama]

Hi beaujack

What was the first fight you remember seeing? Also, your first truly great fighter?

As a little boy ,my family lived next door to a trainer of the great LH Champ John Henry Lewis.
Most every night I would go next door and spar with stablemates of JH Lewis. I never saw him in the apartment, but I would spar and eat salads with oil, with his stablemates. After I grew a little older I was hooked on boxing's great history. My dad who boxed in smokers as a youngster ,saw Benny Leonard and he saw the GREAT Harry Greb administer a tremendous beating to Gene Tunney in 1922, MSG. He would say to me that Tunney was bathed in blood in their first bout in 1922.
He would take me to the Golden Gloves Amateur bouts in NY. But my first pro main event i saw ringside was at St. Nicks Arena in NY,where a new SENSATION named Beau Jack from Georgia,
met a TOUGH older friend of Rocky Graziano, named Terry Young [Angelo DeSanza]. What a great bout that was between two pit bulls...Jack got the decision, and I later saw Beau Jack become LW champion. So my first pro main event was one of the best fights I ever saw.
As for the first great fighter I as a youngster ever saw ? Well My dad and I saw Ray Robinson
"carry" his idol, fading Henry Armstrong in MSG 1943.We in the audience sensed that Robinson never went all out against Armstrong. It was a dull bout between these two immortals.
But about 1 year later we watched a prime Ray Robinson flatten a tough Calfornian Jimmy McDaniels
with a barrage of punches so amazingly fast and powerful. Ray Robinson at WW was the greatest fighter I EVER saw, followed by Willie Pep who I saw at his peak outclass a tough lightweight boxer Allie Stolz in 1943. Willie Pep before his near fatal plane crash had to be seen to be believed. He anticipated his opponent's next move, was the second best fighter I ever saw in the 1940s "golden age" of boxing. Hope I answered your questions Ezzard ?

hahaha you are Burt Bienstock as I remember you saying this on ESB. How's it going, I see a lot of good posters leaving and coming here. The mods seem very strange over there, they're destroying what was once a good forum.

[beaujack]

Hi Beau,

Did you ever dine at Jack Dempsey's Restaurant and meet The Manassa Mauler himself?

Cheers

No I never dined at Jack Dempsey's restaurant on B'wy,when I would go to MSG with my dad we would go to the Garden Cafeteria,across the street from the old MSG.
But one sunny afternoon,passing Dempsey's Restaurant I saw him sitting at a window table chatting. I was a couple inches away seperated by the glass window,when the great man got up faced us outside and waved a ham sized fist at us outside. I still remember the size of his large hands and his full blue-black hair...Looking inside the restaurant I saw the giant mural painted on his wall of him and Willard by artist George Bellow...I have a small copy on my office wall...

[beaujack]

Beaujack: Did you see Sugar Ray fight Gavilan, Belloise or Georgie Abrams?

Bobby I did not see Ray Robinson flatten the great punching Steve Belloise, or Gavilan or Georgie Abrams. But I saw Marcel Cerdan decision the tough Georgie Abrams MSG, 1946. I did see Gavilan fight at MSG, but not against Robinson. I saw Ray Robinson, by far the best fighter I ever saw
against a faded Henry Armstrong,and several other times, most notably against Randy Turpin at the Polo Grounds....

[raylawpc]

Hi Beau,

Did you ever dine at Jack Dempsey's Restaurant and meet The Manassa Mauler himself?

Cheers

No I never dined at Jack Dempsey's restaurant on B'wy,when I would go to MSG with my dad we would go to the Garden Cafeteria,across the street from the old MSG.
But one sunny afternoon,passing Dempsey's Restaurant I saw him sitting at a window table chatting. I was a couple inches away seperated by the glass window,when the great man got up faced us outside and waved a ham sized fist at us outside. I still remember the size of his large hands and his full blue-black hair...Looking inside the restaurant I saw the giant mural painted on his wall of him and Willard by artist George Bellow...I have a small copy on my office wall...

Beau, James Montgomery Flagg painted the Dempsey-Willard mural, not George Bellow. Bellow painted the famous Dempsey-Firpo painting.

[Cus D'Amato]

beaujack What 's your take on the Klitschkos?

[beaujack]

beaujack What 's your take on the Klitschkos?

Both are the best of today's mediocre crop of heavyweights. Robotic and methodical,unwilling to mix and take chances. I would take a Max Baer or his bigger brother Buddy Baer, to beat the Klitsschkos. Crude though Buddy Baer was ,he was a man the size of the Klitschkos who could hit hard, sailed into his opponents and was dead game...Different eras...

[Bobby A.]

Beaujack: Did you ever attend any ballpark fights in the 40's?

[beaujack]

Beaujack: Did you ever attend any ballpark fights in the 40's?

Quite a few Bobby, that I can recall now.
I saw Graziano ko Frankie Terry in Dexter Park,NY in 1944 the 2 fighters started a riot.
I saw Elmer Ray ko Lee Savold, Ebbet's Field Bklyn 1946
Traveled by bus as a youngster to see Ike Williams almost kill Beau Jack ,Shibe Park, Phil 1848
And I watched Ray Robinson ko Randy Turpin in 1951 at the Polo Grounds, NY. And a few other outdoor Arena's other than ballparks...

[beaujack]

Hi Beau,

Did you ever dine at Jack Dempsey's Restaurant and meet The Manassa Mauler himself?

Cheers

No I never dined at Jack Dempsey's restaurant on B'wy,when I would go to MSG with my dad we would go to the Garden Cafeteria,across the street from the old MSG.
But one sunny afternoon,passing Dempsey's Restaurant I saw him sitting at a window table chatting. I was a couple inches away seperated by the glass window,when the great man got up faced us outside and waved a ham sized fist at us outside. I still remember the size of his large hands and his full blue-black hair...Looking inside the restaurant I saw the giant mural painted on his wall of him and Willard by artist George Bellow...I have a small copy on my office wall...

Beau, James Montgomery Flagg painted the Dempsey-Willard mural, not George Bellow. Bellow painted the famous Dempsey-Firpo painting.

I stand corrected !

[Ketchel]

Beaujack: Did you see Sugar Ray fight Gavilan, Belloise or Georgie Abrams?

Bobby I did not see Ray Robinson flatten the great punching Steve Belloise, or Gavilan or Georgie Abrams. But I saw Marcel Cerdan decision the tough Georgie Abrams MSG, 1946. I did see Gavilan fight at MSG, but not against Robinson. I saw Ray Robinson, by far the best fighter I ever saw
against a faded Henry Armstrong,and several other times, most notably against Randy Turpin at the Polo Grounds....

[Ketchel]

Beaujack: Did you see Sugar Ray fight Gavilan, Belloise or Georgie Abrams?

Bobby I did not see Ray Robinson flatten the great punching Steve Belloise, or Gavilan or Georgie Abrams. But I saw Marcel Cerdan decision the tough Georgie Abrams MSG, 1946. I did see Gavilan fight at MSG, but not against Robinson. I saw Ray Robinson, by far the best fighter I ever saw
against a faded Henry Armstrong,and several other times, most notably against Randy Turpin at the Polo Grounds....

Hi Beau,
What was your take on Marcel Cerdan and how do you think he would have faired against LaMotta in a rematch?

[barrack osama]

Hi Burt,

Where do you relate John L. Sullivan, Peter Jackson and Jack Johnson in comparison to Louis and Dempsey?