1967 Ali against the best of Ringo Bonavena.

[gilgamesh]

Ringo fought a very good fight I thought in the bout he actually did have with Ali. I thought it was virtually even coming to the 15th round, The Ali of the 60's was more mobile and used his legs a lot better, but Ringo was tough and he still ain't going anywhere I think Ali would win about 9 or 10 rounds and take a decision win in a stern test.

[Woller]

Sorry, it would have been "Murder".
Bonavena would not have had a chance and would have been outpointed by a mile. Ringo was fun to watch in fights against Frazier and Chuvalo, but he would have been outclassed big time. Even a very old (at that time) Floyd Patterson beat Ringo handsomly.

Woller

[pound per pound]

I KNEW someone was going to bring up Cleveland Williams.

Heck, a mild breeze could have knocked over Williams, considering the shape he was in circa 1966.

How 'bout that devastating punching performance Ali delivered against crippled-up, china-chinned Floyd Patterson in '65?? Hmmmnnn?

Or those two "powerful" punching performances against Sir Henry Cooper in '63 and '66?

You know, the Henry Cooper that Patterson laid out flat later in '66?

Hmmmnnnn?

Cheers.

Might just want to take a look at Williams record in this time period where you think he was a walking cadaver. What happened to him is a fact, how it affected his performance is harder to quantify....no doubt it didn't improve his game. But he didn't seem to be a corpse either.

Have you looked at his record during this period? He fought four pretty poor quality fighters and despite having previously been a wrecking ball he failed to KO arguably the two chinniest of the four. After Ali it was a year and half before he fought and was never able to defeat a decent fighter again. I think its very safe to say Williams was far past his best when Ali fought him.

Klompton makes a solid point on Williams. Not only was Williams past his prime, he also had to recover from a gun shot wound in the 1960's. Ali looked brilliant vs. Williams. His punches and timing were excellent, but the win has to be put in proper perspective.

[pound per pound]

Ringo fought a very good fight I thought in the bout he actually did have with Ali. I thought it was virtually even coming to the 15th round, The Ali of the 60's was more mobile and used his legs a lot better, but Ringo was tough and he still ain't going anywhere I think Ali would win about 9 or 10 rounds and take a decision win in a stern test.

I think its fair to say that Ali had problems with forward moving pressure fighters. Mostly because he wasn't a big time puncher, and did not have an uppercut or body attack to deploy in close quarters

Frazier to me won the most important fight of the trilogy. The first match pitted two undefeated champions vs each other, and both men were under 30 and in their prime.

Prior to Frazier, Ali could out point, but not tame Chavalo. Chavalo had his share of moments. Ringo was a bit faster and rangier than Chavalo was and certainly won more rounds than Chavalo did. I think a match few years prior between Ali and Ringo would be somewhat competitive. Ali takes the decision.

[yancey]

Ringo fought a very good fight I thought in the bout he actually did have with Ali. I thought it was virtually even coming to the 15th round, The Ali of the 60's was more mobile and used his legs a lot better, but Ringo was tough and he still ain't going anywhere I think Ali would win about 9 or 10 rounds and take a decision win in a stern test.

I think its fair to say that Ali had problems with forward moving pressure fighters. Mostly because he wasn't a big time puncher, and did not have an uppercut or body attack to deploy in close quarters

Frazier to me won the most important fight of the trilogy. The first match pitted two undefeated champions vs each other, and both men were under 30 and in their prime.

Prior to Frazier, Ali could out point, but not tame Chavalo. Chavalo had his share of moments. Ringo was a bit faster and rangier than Chavalo was and certainly won more rounds than Chavalo did. I think a match few years prior between Ali and Ringo would be somewhat competitive. Ali takes the decision.

Agree with all of this.

[keithmoonhangover]

Ringo fought a very good fight I thought in the bout he actually did have with Ali. I thought it was virtually even coming to the 15th round, The Ali of the 60's was more mobile and used his legs a lot better, but Ringo was tough and he still ain't going anywhere I think Ali would win about 9 or 10 rounds and take a decision win in a stern test.

I think its fair to say that Ali had problems with forward moving pressure fighters. Mostly because he wasn't a big time puncher, and did not have an uppercut or body attack to deploy in close quarters

Frazier to me won the most important fight of the trilogy. The first match pitted two undefeated champions vs each other, and both men were under 30 and in their prime.

Prior to Frazier, Ali could out point, but not tame Chavalo. Chavalo had his share of moments. Ringo was a bit faster and rangier than Chavalo was and certainly won more rounds than Chavalo did. I think a match few years prior between Ali and Ringo would be somewhat competitive. Ali takes the decision.

Agree with all of this.

Ali wasn't in his prime.

[yancey]

I think its fair to say that Ali had problems with forward moving pressure fighters. Mostly because he wasn't a big time puncher, and did not have an uppercut or body attack to deploy in close quarters

Frazier to me won the most important fight of the trilogy. The first match pitted two undefeated champions vs each other, and both men were under 30 and in their prime.

Prior to Frazier, Ali could out point, but not tame Chavalo. Chavalo had his share of moments. Ringo was a bit faster and rangier than Chavalo was and certainly won more rounds than Chavalo did. I think a match few years prior between Ali and Ringo would be somewhat competitive. Ali takes the decision.

Agree with all of this.

Ali wasn't in his prime.

Deal with it, bud.

[keithmoonhangover]

Agree with all of this.

Ali wasn't in his prime.

Deal with it, bud.

Ali said he wasn't in his prime after the ban, so did Angelo Dundee, Bert Sugar and Nat Fleischer, among many others. But if you think differently.......

[yancey]

Ali wasn't in his prime.

Deal with it, bud.

Ali said he wasn't in his prime after the ban, so did Angelo Dundee, Bert Sugar and Nat Fleischer, among many others. But if you think differently.......

Yessiree, if Ali and Dundee said it then it has to be true. No bias there, right?



Take the lollipop from your mouth, bud.

[keithmoonhangover]

Deal with it, bud.

Ali said he wasn't in his prime after the ban, so did Angelo Dundee, Bert Sugar and Nat Fleischer, among many others. But if you think differently.......

Yessiree, if Ali and Dundee said it then it has to be true. No bias there, right?



Take the lollipop from your mouth, bud.

No thanks, I like the taste.

[yancey]

Ali said he wasn't in his prime after the ban, so did Angelo Dundee, Bert Sugar and Nat Fleischer, among many others. But if you think differently.......

Yessiree, if Ali and Dundee said it then it has to be true. No bias there, right?



Take the lollipop from your mouth, bud.

No thanks, I like the taste.

Just curious, Keither, do you go round with a baseball cap on backwards?

[keithmoonhangover]

Yessiree, if Ali and Dundee said it then it has to be true. No bias there, right?



Take the lollipop from your mouth, bud.

No thanks, I like the taste.

Just curious, Keither, do you go round with a baseball cap on backwards?

I'm from England mate, I don't like baseball and I don't want to be American. No cap for me sir.