Zarate vs. Gomez

[Rover]

Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

[elmersalsa]

Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

I have never said that Gomez or Zarate were the best fighters that I have ever seen

Well, tell me and answer me this question...What super bantam has you seen better than the great Wilfredo Gomez ever since? What bantamweight was better than the great Carlos Zarate ever since?

Since then, I have not seen a better super bantam or a better bantamweight.
What is the problem? Have you seen anything better?

I have not seen a Chavez fight in the amateurs, and STILL, I WOULD RATHER SEE HIM FIGHT THAN ANY FIGHT THAT Oscar De La Hoya ever had in his life.

Or may I say this, I would rather see Chavez talk than any fight that Oscar De La Hoya ever had.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Oscar would have been a problem for any version of Chavez.

[Rover]

Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

I have never said that Gomez or Zarate were the best fighters that I have ever seen

Well, tell me and answer me this question...What super bantam has you seen better than the great Wilfredo Gomez ever since? What bantamweight was better than the great Carlos Zarate ever since?

Since then, I have not seen a better super bantam or a better bantamweight.
What is the problem? Have you seen anything better?

I have not seen a Chavez fight in the amateurs, and STILL, I WOULD RATHER SEE HIM FIGHT THAN ANY FIGHT THAT Oscar De La Hoya ever had in his life.

Or may I say this, I would rather see Chavez talk than any fight that Oscar De La Hoya ever had.

And your last two sentences illustrate your stupidity.
You didn't say bantams or super bantams before, so don't try to claim you did.

[Rover]

Oscar would have been a problem for any version of Chavez.

I'd favor prime lightweight Chavez over Oscar, but your point of view is a reasonable one--far more so than elmersalsa's--especially since he admittedly never even saw Chavez as an amateur but claims he'd rather have seen that version than prime Oscar--a very good fighter.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He despises Oscar, Elmer doesn't think DLH could beat half of the fighters he did beat.

[Rover]

Remember this, elmer?
"Yes, both of them were great [*]fighters[*]. [*]Fighters[*] that we would never see in our lifetime again Rover."

[Rover]

He despises Oscar, Elmer doesn't think DLH could beat half of the fighters he did beat.

I never liked Oscar much either, but I'll give him his due; he was a very good fighter.

[elmersalsa]

Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

I have never said that Gomez or Zarate were the best fighters that I have ever seen

Well, tell me and answer me this question...What super bantam has you seen better than the great Wilfredo Gomez ever since? What bantamweight was better than the great Carlos Zarate ever since?

Since then, I have not seen a better super bantam or a better bantamweight.
What is the problem? Have you seen anything better?

I have not seen a Chavez fight in the amateurs, and STILL, I WOULD RATHER SEE HIM FIGHT THAN ANY FIGHT THAT Oscar De La Hoya ever had in his life.

Or may I say this, I would rather see Chavez talk than any fight that Oscar De La Hoya ever had.

And your last two sentences illustrate your stupidity.
You didn't say bantams or super bantams before, so don't try to claim you did.

Maybe your stupidity of trying to understand me is affecting you. I understand.

[Rover]

I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

[elmersalsa]

I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

thanks to you and your idiotic comments. Nuff respect, my youth

[Rover]

I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

thanks to you and your idiotic comments. Nuff respect, my youth

Your moronic comments deserve and will receive no respect, old man.

[elmersalsa]

I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

thanks to you and your idiotic comments. Nuff respect, my youth

Your moronic comments deserve and will receive no respect, old man.

Same as your moronic comments...Satisfied?

[Rover]

Satisfied that I've exposed your stupidity with comments such as the gem that you'd rather see JCC talk than prime DLH fight.
Hey, elmer, hope you've got that list of yours you couldn't access that day because you were in the library.

[elmersalsa]

Satisfied that I've exposed your stupidity with comments such as the gem that you'd rather see JCC talk than prime DLH fight.
Hey, elmer, hope you've got that list of yours you couldn't access that day because you were in the library.

To say that I rather see Chavez talk than any DLHs fights is stupid? Well, let's leave it like that. I guess you like DLH so much that I cannot understand that. Maybe I am stupid about that, too. Well, quite frankly, I really would like to see anything than a DLH or any of today's top fighters FIGHTS...It is a WASTE OF TIME.

I would rather see a movie today or a college or football game on tv than a DLH or anything that have to do with his era.

My list of the top 100 greatest fighters had great reviews by these top notch boxing experts of boxrec.com. I respect them as long as they don't call me nor my antics names like "stupid" like you do. And I do not care. One thing is, I will not be disrespected by anyone in this forum, starting with you. OK?

[Rover]

Satisfied that I've exposed your stupidity with comments such as the gem that you'd rather see JCC talk than prime DLH fight.
Hey, elmer, hope you've got that list of yours you couldn't access that day because you were in the library.

To say that I rather see Chavez talk than any DLHs fights is stupid? Well, let's leave it like that. I guess you like DLH so much that I cannot understand that. Maybe I am stupid about that, too. Well, quite frankly, I really would like to see anything than a DLH or any of today's top fighters FIGHTS...It is a WASTE OF TIME.

I would rather see a movie today or a college or football game on tv than a DLH or anything that have to do with his era.

My list of the top 100 greatest fighters had great reviews by these top notch boxing experts of boxrec.com. I respect them as long as they don't call me nor my antics names like "stupid" like you do. And I do not care. One thing is, I will not be disrespected by anyone in this forum, starting with you. OK?

1. I'll disrespect you and your foolish "antics" any time I feel like it, old man.
2. Yes, saying you'd rather see someone talk than a very good fighter fight is idiotic.
I'll keep going as long as you want, old man.

[Rover]

Carlos Zarate,

The Greatest Bantamweight ever.....

Throw out the 'horrible' and 'fixed decision' versus Lupe Pintor in 1979.

A remarkable 118 lb. fighter.

No evidence it was fixed.

[Rover]

OK then,,,,,

A horrible decision, that has an aroma of 'fix'.

Don't give me your "aroma" crap. If you want to say it's a horrible decision, that's one thing, but you have offered no evidence that it was fixed (that the judges were corrupted).

[Rover]

Carlos Zarate did clean up the Bantamweight Division in 1975, on his way to a WBC Title shot,

By May 1976, the 25 year-old (Old for a Bantamweight) was 39-0-0 [38 KO's], with only the
talented Victor Ramirez (27-1-0 22 KO's) taking him the full 10-Round distance, back in January 1974.

And the point of that is? You make charges, get called out on them, and then just change the subject and bring up something wholly unrelated. Zarate's accomplishments by 1975 have nothing to do with whether or not a decision in 1979 was fixed.

[Rover]

A very good bout to view,,,,,

April 9, 1974 (Baja California)

Carlos Zarate 25-0-0 (24 KO's) vs. Alfonso Ibara 22-2-1 (16 KO's)

Carlos ripped Alfonso apart, and put him away in Round 2.

Alfonso Ibara, also a very good up-and-coming Bantamweight at the time

Nothing to do with whether Zarate/Pintor was fixed.

[Rover]

Art Lurie and Harold Buck

Had the same exact scorecard, round per round,,,,,,,,,

In that bout, that was an impossibility, unless someone was filling them out for them.

Nonsense. It was only an "impossibility" in your mind.
But at least you've given up on trying to weasel out of this by rambling about other fights.
Try again.

[Rover]

Art Lurie and Harold Buck,,,,,

143-142 for Lupe Pintor, or 8-6-1 in Rounds (Carlos Zarate scored a 10-8 in Round 4).

Which 8-Rounds could you score for Lupe Pintor, the same as the 'two' corrupt judges.

How about those 'two honest judges' getting the same round 'Even'.

Guess which one.

It wasn't evidence the *first* time you stated it, and it isn't now. Try again.
BTW, your track record of accuracy with respect to the scorecards of this fight isn't exactly the best.
First, you claimed that one judge had scored two 10-8 rounds, which is nonsense, but you even named them (the 4th and (you thought) the 11th).
Then you apparently realized that the numbers didn't add up, so you claimed that he gave 7 10-8 rounds for Zarate, which also was wrong; that nut judge gave Zarate a 10-6 4th round.
You also claimed he'd scored the third round 10-9; in fact, it was 10-8 per Lee Groves, a boxing historian who has actually looked at these. But according to you, Groves is mistaken, when in fact you've already been shown to have been mistaken about these cards just in the first four rounds.
You're just too dense to understand that two judges' having scored a fight identically isn't evidence of anything nefarious.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Carlos Zarate,

The Greatest Bantamweight ever.....

Throw out the 'horrible' and 'fixed decision' versus Lupe Pintor in 1979.

A remarkable 118 lb. fighter.

I consider that fight a win, no way in hell he was greater than Jofre.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You guys really need the same exact argument in another thread? Chirst

[Rover]

Carlos Zarate,

The Greatest Bantamweight ever.....

Throw out the 'horrible' and 'fixed decision' versus Lupe Pintor in 1979.

A remarkable 118 lb. fighter.

I consider that fight a win, no way in hell he was greater than Jofre.

Damn, missed that part (Zarate GOAT at bantam) because of the fixed fight bullshit, but you're dead on target about Jofre.