Classic American West Coast Boxing

[dagosd2000]

Bernard Hopkins

[dagosd2000]

Carl "The Truth" Williams

[El Gallo]

Rick, the Toy Tiger Art Hafey was a good one, lets hope something happens [/quote]
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I helped Brad Little get interviews with many fighters for that film and was named in the credits. I also attended the Premiere. Sadly, Brad is not a professional filmmaker and that film was never sold. The quality of photography, sound, etc. was amateurish, same as The Gil Cadilli Story" was. God bless amateur filmmakers, but their products aren't top quality. The Toy Tiger was too long, and carried a message that if it were not for politics Art would have been a champion, which is totally untrue. The truth is, Art was low man among the better featherweights of the era. We had Lopez and Chacon in town, he was basicly an also ran. That movie was not a good one, or marketable. Brad lost thousands following his dream with that film. El Boxeo, which is a professionally made film by an Academt Award winning producer is a boxing documentary that will make money, because it was properly done about a subject that is interesting. Art Hafey? His story had nothing of interest to people who distribute films. And sadly, same is true with regard to Mando, Art Aragon, etc.

[El Gallo]

Rick, the Toy Tiger Art Hafey was a good one, lets hope something happens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I helped Brad Little get interviews with many fighters for that film and was named in the credits. I also attended the Premiere. Sadly, Brad is not a professional filmmaker and that film was never sold. The quality of photography, sound, etc. was amateurish, same as The Gil Cadilli Story" was. God bless amateur filmmakers, but their products aren't top quality. The Toy Tiger was too long, and carried a message that if it were not for politics Art would have been a champion, which is totally untrue. The truth is, Art was low man among the better featherweights of the era. We had Lopez and Chacon in town, he was basicly an also ran. That movie was not a good one, or marketable. Brad lost thousands following his dream with that film. El Boxeo, which is a professionally made film by an Academt Award winning producer is a boxing documentary that will make money, because it was properly done about a subject that is interesting. Art Hafey? His story had nothing of interest to people who distribute films. And sadly, same is true with regard to Mando, Art Aragon, etc.[/quote]

[dagosd2000]

Rick, the Toy Tiger Art Hafey was a good one, lets hope something happens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I helped Brad Little get interviews with many fighters for that film and was named in the credits. I also attended the Premiere. Sadly, Brad is not a professional filmmaker and that film was never sold. The quality of photography, sound, etc. was amateurish, same as The Gil Cadilli Story" was. God bless amateur filmmakers, but their products aren't top quality. The Toy Tiger was too long, and carried a message that if it were not for politics Art would have been a champion, which is totally untrue. The truth is, Art was low man among the better featherweights of the era. We had Lopez and Chacon in town, he was basicly an also ran. That movie was not a good one, or marketable. Brad lost thousands following his dream with that film. El Boxeo, which is a professionally made film by an Academt Award winning producer is a boxing documentary that will make money, because it was properly done about a subject that is interesting. Art Hafey? His story had nothing of interest to people who distribute films. And sadly, same is true with regard to Mando, Art Aragon, etc.

[/quote]


Yes Rick you are right about that film on Art Hafey. Amateur film producers have good intentions,but most of them miss the mark. There is an amateur film out about two Mexican/American brothers that are startng out their boxing careers. I saw it on my Netflix. Maybe you know the name of it. It was very good. Rog

[dagosd2000]

A Peasant Dish

Being brought up in an Italian household I got my share of experiencing different types of Italian food.Even most American dishes had an Italian flavor added. To this day Italian food is the best for me. But if you're used to eating Italian food that is made by your family,the same cuisine tastes different outside the house. I've been to exquisite Italian restaurants in my lifetime: New York,Chicago,Rome,and even Naples were my heritage is from,but after leaving these fine bistros I their food still can't measure up to what my family makes at home.

Now I suppose that holds true in every Italian house. They're used to their own cooking. Sinatra when he was seperated from his wife and living with Ava Gardner would have one of his kids come over with one of their mother's pasta dishes. Rocky Marciano couldn't eat any other gravy but his mother's.

In Neopolitan houses pasta e fagiole is a staple. The ingredients are inexpensive and was easy to make. Pasta,peas,onions,olive oil,tomato gravy all boiled up in a big pot. I got addicted to the stuff. When I go to Italy though I can never find it in a restaurant. I ask for it and I either get strange looks or they say it's a peasant dish.

I'm in this midst of reading a biography on Sofia Loren. A great star of the cinema. Her Italian movies were unsurpassable. Earthy and beautifull,she is my favorite. Her American movies with Anthony Perkins,Clark Gable,John Wayne,Sinatra,etc.?Horrible. Like opening up a can of Chef Boy R Dee. She's out of her element. She even comes off being a little stupid. But her films,for example with Mastrionni ?
Like my family's pasta e fagiole:real Italian.

By the way. In the book I'm reading on her life,Sofia Loren says that she's been to the most famous restaurants in the world,but the best meal she's ever eaten was when she was a little girl growing up in the slums of Naples. Her grandmother's pasta e fagiole.She still remembers it bubbling on the stove.

Hey Sofia ,you're a real "goomba".

[dagosd2000]

Sofia Loren in a happy mood

[Cholo]

Rick, the Toy Tiger Art Hafey was a good one, lets hope something happens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I helped Brad Little get interviews with many fighters for that film and was named in the credits. I also attended the Premiere. Sadly, Brad is not a professional filmmaker and that film was never sold. The quality of photography, sound, etc. was amateurish, same as The Gil Cadilli Story" was. God bless amateur filmmakers, but their products aren't top quality. The Toy Tiger was too long, and carried a message that if it were not for politics Art would have been a champion, which is totally untrue. The truth is, Art was low man among the better featherweights of the era. We had Lopez and Chacon in town, he was basicly an also ran. That movie was not a good one, or marketable. Brad lost thousands following his dream with that film. El Boxeo, which is a professionally made film by an Academt Award winning producer is a boxing documentary that will make money, because it was properly done about a subject that is interesting. Art Hafey? His story had nothing of interest to people who distribute films. And sadly, same is true with regard to Mando, Art Aragon, etc.

[/quote]

True Rick, Looking forward to seeing El Boxeo

[El Gallo]

A Peasant Dish

Being brought up in an Italian household I got my share of experiencing different types of Italian food.Even most American dishes had an Italian flavor added. To this day Italian food is the best for me. But if you're used to eating Italian food that is made by your family,the same cuisine tastes different outside the house. I've been to exquisite Italian restaurants in my lifetime: New York,Chicago,Rome,and even Naples were my heritage is from,but after leaving these fine bistros I their food still can't measure up to what my family makes at home.

Now I suppose that holds true in every Italian house. They're used to their own cooking. Sinatra when he was seperated from his wife and living with Ava Gardner would have one of his kids come over with one of their mother's pasta dishes. Rocky Marciano couldn't eat any other gravy but his mother's.

In Neopolitan houses pasta e fagiole is a staple. The ingredients are inexpensive and was easy to make. Pasta,peas,onions,olive oil,tomato gravy all boiled up in a big pot. I got addicted to the stuff. When I go to Italy though I can never find it in a restaurant. I ask for it and I either get strange looks or they say it's a peasant dish.

I'm in this midst of reading a biography on Sofia Loren. A great star of the cinema. Her Italian movies were unsurpassable. Earthy and beautifull,she is my favorite. Her American movies with Anthony Perkins,Clark Gable,John Wayne,Sinatra,etc.?Horrible. Like opening up a can of Chef Boy R Dee. She's out of her element. She even comes off being a little stupid. But her films,for example with Mastrionni ?
Like my family's pasta e fagiole:real Italian.

By the way. In the book I'm reading on her life,Sofia Loren says that she's been to the most famous restaurants in the world,but the best meal she's ever eaten was when she was a little girl growing up in the slums of Naples. Her grandmother's pasta e fagiole.She still remembers it bubbling on the stove.

Hey Sofia ,you're a real "goomba".

Rog, if I stayed too long with my Italian friends on Staten Island when I visit N.Y. I'd look like "Two Ton Tony". Such good friends and such great food, and lots of it. The Barone's, Castellano's, Antonelli's and Leoni family's send me back to Southern Cal in heavier weight class. I love them, and it is my favorite food. Monica tells me that I "eat like a bird". Not when the food is Italian!

[El Gallo]

"The Gil Cadilli Story" . . .

Was a very good documentary, I thought. It was unmarketable because it was an amateur quality film made by Gil's son, a bit on the crude side technically, but what a wonderful film. It's on Youtube and most who post here have seen it. Heput a nice little sound track to it, and I believe he captured the era. He also didn't have an agenda, aside from honoring his father and the era, and I credit him with making a film I found enjoyable. I will likely do a film some day, I have a lot of resources in the area, but it is not a goal. It is far more work than anybody could imagine and before you undertake such a project you have to have a plan and direction. Sadly, most just start filming and hope to finish with a product that is marketable. Sadly, it NEVER happens. You don't make a great film by accident, and even if you produce the greatest film, selling it is another thing. We will screen "El Boxeo" this summer in Los Angeles for those who were interviewed, and fans that would like to attend will be welcome in exchange for a small donation toward the Retired Boxer's Foundation. The film will be broadcast on HBO later this year.

[Cholo]

"The Gil Cadilli Story" . . .

Was a very good documentary, I thought. It was unmarketable because it was an amateur quality film made by Gil's son, a bit on the crude side technically, but what a wonderful film. It's on Youtube and most who post here have seen it. Heput a nice little sound track to it, and I believe he captured the era. He also didn't have an agenda, aside from honoring his father and the era, and I credit him with making a film I found enjoyable. I will likely do a film some day, I have a lot of resources in the area, but it is not a goal. It is far more work than anybody could imagine and before you undertake such a project you have to have a plan and direction. Sadly, most just start filming and hope to finish with a product that is marketable. Sadly, it NEVER happens. You don't make a great film by accident, and even if you produce the greatest film, selling it is another thing. We will screen "El Boxeo" this summer in Los Angeles for those who were interviewed, and fans that would like to attend will be welcome in exchange for a small donation toward the Retired Boxer's Foundation. The film will be broadcast on HBO later this year.

You gotta do it, Rick.

[dagosd2000]

Not Quite Total Recall

If my frame of reference would have been the information I got from my uncles,cousins ,and my father on the history of Italian fighters I would have been caught going into the ring not wearing my boxing trunks.

When they spoke of Willie Pep fighting Sandy Saddler I believed there was only a single bout between the two great feather weights. Saddler stopping the Wil of the Wisp three times? I was old enough to drink in a bar when that information crossed my path and you can be sure it didn't come from the Southwest Side of Chicago.

Joe Louis getting belted out by Marciano was another gem. To hear my uncle Paddy describe it, Louis was in the prime of his career. Looking at that fight on film made me understand why The Rock cried in The Brown Bomber's dressing room. Basilio never fought Robinson a second time. Not to hear it from the crew at the pool hall. And here's a good one,Two Ton Tony had Louis out on his feet ,but the ref interferered with Galento or Tony would have finished him off. I remember when they showed the replay of Jose Napoles's second fight with Backus. My dad was watching it with me.
"If Backus is managed by Carmen Basilio the kid is going to win,"explained my father.
"This is a replay. Napoles knocked him out."
"Carmen wouldn't take on a bum. Besides the kid is Italian and he's Carmen's nephew,"said my father dismissing what I had to say.

Well my father sat there and watched Billy Backus get cut to ribbons. I was wondering what my father had to say when it was over.
"Did you say the other guy's name was Napoles?"
"Yes,Jose Napoles."
"Napoles?"said my father,"Then he has to be from Naples."

[dagosd2000]

Lou Ambers

[dagosd2000]

Left At The Altar

"Ruck,"I shouted,"I haven't seen you in years."
"Came here for Big Len's mom. She was a wonderfull lady,"he said.
The Catholic church was pretty full. Our Lady Of Rosary was located in Little Italy. A small church started by the old Italian fishermen familes. Big Len's mom was very sick for a long time and finally passed away in her sleep. It was kind of a blessing. We were there for the mass.

Jeff Rucker was a couple of years ahead of me in school. He was the fullback on the football team and was a starting pitcher for the baseball squad. He was squared jawed and straight forward. A good pal who'd back you to the hilt.

What I remembered the most about him though was when we were in high school the gang would go over to Ruck's garage and put on the boxing gloves. Ruck's dad had been a fighter and built a ring in the garage for us boys. Often there'd be a bunch of us in the garage mixing it up. Ruck's dad would try to teach us the rudiments of the sport,but we'd usually get away from any science and just start mauling each other. Iremember Ruck always coming out on top of those fistic encounters.

I sat next to Ruck in one of the pews near the front by the altar.
"What have you been up to Ruck?"
"Playing golf when I can. Spend a lot of time with Linda. She's battling breast cancer."
I didn't know his wife had cancer. Linda and Ruck were high school sweethearts. Ruck the sports hero and Linda the head cheerleader. But they weren't into themselves.They were very popular because they weren't conceited.
"How is she doing?"
"She plays tennis with her friends and we
go to plays. We want to start traveling once she stops her chemo.We would like to take some of the grandchildren with us."

The priest came out and began the mass. I was Catholic ,but I hadn't been to mass in the United States since I was a little boy. Visiting in Mexico I'd been to mass often . Baptisms,weddings,15 year olds. There's masses for just about anything. But I felt that religion had gotten away from me. Especially the formality of it.

After the mass was over the priest asked everyone to embrace each other. I remember doing that in Mexico,but not when I was a little kid in Chicago. Then the priest asked who would want communion. But he stated that you had to a Catholic to receive the host.
"You know Ruck,"I said turning to him,"I haven't done this in years."
I saw a rush to the altar. Yes,they were Catholics receiving the host of God. I thought that you had to go to confession before you received communion,but I know that most of those people hadn't been to confession.I stood in line and waited my turn. The priest put the host in my hand instead of putting it on my tongue. I guess it was to prevent germs .I turned with the host dissolving in my mouth and thought how could there be any thing on the host that would make me ill. Then I looked at Ruck sitting in the pew.

I don't know. If I had to do that over again I don't think I would do it.

[dagosd2000]

Clarence Henry

[CNorkusJr]

A Peasant Dish

Being brought up in an Italian household I got my share of experiencing different types of Italian food.Even most American dishes had an Italian flavor added. To this day Italian food is the best for me. But if you're used to eating Italian food that is made by your family,the same cuisine tastes different outside the house. I've been to exquisite Italian restaurants in my lifetime: New York,Chicago,Rome,and even Naples were my heritage is from,but after leaving these fine bistros I their food still can't measure up to what my family makes at home.

Now I suppose that holds true in every Italian house. They're used to their own cooking. Sinatra when he was seperated from his wife and living with Ava Gardner would have one of his kids come over with one of their mother's pasta dishes. Rocky Marciano couldn't eat any other gravy but his mother's.

In Neopolitan houses pasta e fagiole is a staple. The ingredients are inexpensive and was easy to make. Pasta,peas,onions,olive oil,tomato gravy all boiled up in a big pot. I got addicted to the stuff. When I go to Italy though I can never find it in a restaurant. I ask for it and I either get strange looks or they say it's a peasant dish.

I'm in this midst of reading a biography on Sofia Loren. A great star of the cinema. Her Italian movies were unsurpassable. Earthy and beautifull,she is my favorite. Her American movies with Anthony Perkins,Clark Gable,John Wayne,Sinatra,etc.?Horrible. Like opening up a can of Chef Boy R Dee. She's out of her element. She even comes off being a little stupid. But her films,for example with Mastrionni ?
Like my family's pasta e fagiole:real Italian.

By the way. In the book I'm reading on her life,Sofia Loren says that she's been to the most famous restaurants in the world,but the best meal she's ever eaten was when she was a little girl growing up in the slums of Naples. Her grandmother's pasta e fagiole.She still remembers it bubbling on the stove.

Hey Sofia ,you're a real "goomba".

Rog, if I stayed too long with my Italian friends on Staten Island when I visit N.Y. I'd look like "Two Ton Tony". Such good friends and such great food, and lots of it. The Barone's, Castellano's, Antonelli's and Leoni family's send me back to Southern Cal in heavier weight class. I love them, and it is my favorite food. Monica tells me that I "eat like a bird". Not when the food is Italian!

Hi guys, A article in the New York Daily News about 2 weeks ago stated that Manhattan's famed "Little Italy" section has shrunk considerably in the last 10 years.(If you visited the area year after year like I did-you can notice it) What was a fantastic nabe about 20 blocks by 5 blocks has now shrunk to a 4 block by 3 block area. Its gotten so small that its famed "San Gennaro Festival" held each year is but a shell of itself. I remember going downtown several years ago a rich vibrant area filled with Italian Restaurants, delis,bakeries and filled churches.
You could walk one block after another and get 25 different places to buy cannoli's and expresso in a short span.

The area has been overlapped by the ever increasing neighbor "Chinatown". The Asian population is getting BIG. Match that with an aging Italian population moving out to live with the kids in Brooklyn and Staten Island stated above. Believe it or not, a huge dent in the population was the MANY arrests of the so-called mafioso families with-in.
Those left in Manhattan are leaving for the outer boros. Its a sad thing except for a handful of some old standfasts on Mulberry Street, the Heart of Little Italy.

[Brutu]

Hey Mr.Norkus,I wanted to ask if you had anything concerning
Cleveland"Big Cat" Williams in your scrapebooks that you would possibly share here.(see Big Cat..Fun Filled Facts thread at this forum).
I read where manager Lou Viscusi wanted your father to fight
Cleve Williams on National Television after your father had knocked out
Lou Viscus'si other fighter,Danny Nardico.Was wondering how close that fight may have came
to actually happening.

[El Gallo]

"The Gil Cadilli Story" . . .

Was a very good documentary, I thought. It was unmarketable because it was an amateur quality film made by Gil's son, a bit on the crude side technically, but what a wonderful film. It's on Youtube and most who post here have seen it. Heput a nice little sound track to it, and I believe he captured the era. He also didn't have an agenda, aside from honoring his father and the era, and I credit him with making a film I found enjoyable. I will likely do a film some day, I have a lot of resources in the area, but it is not a goal. It is far more work than anybody could imagine and before you undertake such a project you have to have a plan and direction. Sadly, most just start filming and hope to finish with a product that is marketable. Sadly, it NEVER happens. You don't make a great film by accident, and even if you produce the greatest film, selling it is another thing. We will screen "El Boxeo" this summer in Los Angeles for those who were interviewed, and fans that would like to attend will be welcome in exchange for a small donation toward the Retired Boxer's Foundation. The film will be broadcast on HBO later this year.

You gotta do it, Rick.

No way, not me! Never a movie or documentary aside from consulting and helping a filmmaker seeking interviewees.
I have no interest in putting so much time into such a project, and prefer focusing on something I'm involved with now.
I will take advantage of film work and also conduct my interviews with production partner Dan Hanley, that is what I have a passion for.
If I want to do something I will do it well, but you have to understand I have no interest in such films.
I'll create something else carefully, and unlike those before me, do it right!

[dagosd2000]

Meshugga

I read in the news that Jewish Delis are dwindling in number. There wasn't a huge number in San Diego,but when I read that New York was losing the eateries I was surprised. Maxwell Street in Chicago ,that had many, I think are down to one or two. The neighborhoods change. The ethnicity changes. The food changes.

I've got a buddy,Jim, who retired out with me from the school district. We still get together once a month and eat breakfast. We go to a Jewish restaurant named D.Z. Akins near the college. I'm not that fond of Jewish breakfasts,but I certainly am a soft touch for corned beef and pastrami. So for breakfast we get the vegetarian omelete,home fries, with an onion bagle. Lots of food and pretty satisfying.

Me and Jim shoot the breeze from family to politics. He complains to me about living in a house full of women(his wife and daughter)and how he still helps supports his son who is 43 and struggling as a substitute teacher. I don't mind listening. He vents it out. He calls it theraputic. Beats paying a shrink a hundred dollars an hour.

One morning we walked inside D.Z. Akins and were seated by the hostess. She was dark skinned with long black hair. I heard her speak Spanish to one of the waitresses.
"Jim,"I said as we got comfortable in the booth,"ever notice that everbody that works here is Mexican. The waitresses,the cooks,the people in the bakery."
"No,I never thought about it,"he said.
"When I went to New York last year to Mulberry Street in Little Italy,it was the same thing. All Puertoricans and Mexicans."
"Really,"he said as he pushed his coffeee cup to the end of the table.
"I go down to Little Italy here in San Diego on India Street and it's the same thing. I take my wife with me and she's speeking to all the help in Spanish."
"Why do you think that is?"
"The Jewish kids and the Italian kids don't want to bus tables. They want to inherit the business and play grab ass with the secretaries in the front office."

The waitress came over with a pot of coffee.
"The usual fellas'?",she asked.
"The usual",Jim answered.
"Chula,"I said,"How come everybody who works here is Mexican. This is a Jewish joint."
"I don't know," she said smiling.
I watched her walk back to the kitchen counter and hand our order to one of the cooks. They were sharing a laugh.
Jim took a sip of his coffee.
"Sometomes life is pretty crazy to figure out,"he said.
"You can say that again."

[dagosd2000]

Alberto Sandoval

[Cholo]

"The Gil Cadilli Story" . . .

Was a very good documentary, I thought. It was unmarketable because it was an amateur quality film made by Gil's son, a bit on the crude side technically, but what a wonderful film. It's on Youtube and most who post here have seen it. Heput a nice little sound track to it, and I believe he captured the era. He also didn't have an agenda, aside from honoring his father and the era, and I credit him with making a film I found enjoyable. I will likely do a film some day, I have a lot of resources in the area, but it is not a goal. It is far more work than anybody could imagine and before you undertake such a project you have to have a plan and direction. Sadly, most just start filming and hope to finish with a product that is marketable. Sadly, it NEVER happens. You don't make a great film by accident, and even if you produce the greatest film, selling it is another thing. We will screen "El Boxeo" this summer in Los Angeles for those who were interviewed, and fans that would like to attend will be welcome in exchange for a small donation toward the Retired Boxer's Foundation. The film will be broadcast on HBO later this year.

You gotta do it, Rick.

No way, not me! Never a movie or documentary aside from consulting and helping a filmmaker seeking interviewees.
I have no interest in putting so much time into such a project, and prefer focusing on something I'm involved with now.
I will take advantage of film work and also conduct my interviews with production partner Dan Hanley, that is what I have a passion for.
If I want to do something I will do it well, but you have to understand I have no interest in such films.
I'll create something else carefully, and unlike those before me, do it right!

Hey Rick, the Mando Ramos interview is it available on disc?

[El Gallo]

Hey Rick, the Mando Ramos interview is it available on disc?[/quote]

I'll send you a copy Paul, along with Rodolfo Gonzalez, Armando Muniz, Carlos Ortiz, George Benton, Yaqui Lopez, Lou Filippo & Gwen Adair inerviews on the same disc.

[jj5000]

Does anyone know when Frankie Crawford died? The date(year ?) of his death is not listed on his record. Wasn't there a question about how he died-murder or suicide ?

[CNorkusJr]

Hey Mr.Norkus,I wanted to ask if you had anything concerning
Cleveland"Big Cat" Williams in your scrapebooks that you would possibly share here.(see Big Cat..Fun Filled Facts thread at this forum).
I read where manager Lou Viscusi wanted your father to fight
Cleve Williams on National Television after your father had knocked out
Lou Viscus'si other fighter,Danny Nardico.Was wondering how close that fight may have came
to actually happening.

When 1954 came around, my father's two victories over Danny Nardico placed him into the top ten of heavies.Danny was suppose to get a shot at Marciano if he came up big against my father. Weill used my father as a feeler out for his boy, Rocky. The insiders of the heavies knew this. That's one way to get to Marciano was to fight and beat my father.
Not because my father was the gatekeeper per se, but Weill picked and choosed his opponents carefully. When my father defeated Nardico, I'm sure Williams camp might of cried "me too,me too". There was always a understanding from my father's camp headed by Ghee Laico, that Weill & Rocky will reward my father with a crack at the title if he played ball by going in against future title prospects. It all started back in Providence when my father was suppose fight LaStarza, but LaStarza s cut up in his previous fight and didnt heal in time, so my father fought Tommy Harrison instead. Some say LaStarza might have beat Rocky a few months later.



After Nardico, my father wanted Marciano himself. However in the scheme of things, Rocky had bigger fish to fry with bigger pay days. My father couldnt guarantee the $100,000 needed at the time. So to keep busy, he fought Jackson and lost on cuts in the 5th.Brion was yelling for his shot and Weill set up Norkus vs Brion II. My father stole away the fight in the 10th Rd. Then came Powell in SF. Suey Welch had pull with the Eastern boys and said Powell can draw the $100,000+ for Marciano. But Marciano wasnt too sure on Powell and sent my father in to see. Marciano checked it out himself.
After my father defeated Powell-everyone wanted a shot. I dont see Cleveland Williams name come up alot but it did later on about 1957. After Powell,my father proposed a 3-way fight competition Cockell-Norkus-Valdes with winner going to Marciano. Weill thought about it but stayed on the Ezzard Charles thing he had planned all along.

When 1954 ended, my father met with Weill and said "what gives"- I had a great year, and helped you guys all along ? (Remember-my father was to fight Rocky in 1950 before he got the title in Providence, but my father hurt his arm in training and the Rocky fought Buevino instead). Weill said they will eventually meet back then but no guarantee.
Weill in Jan. 1955 in a handshake said "defeat Ezz Charles and you and Rocky will meet." Rocky was on hand having punished Charles twice previously, but my father couldnt beat out Charles, and it was a up hill battle again.
Later on,Patterson then used my father a bit, and my father could fight Patterson for the title if he beat Pastrano or Moore. Going the distance wasnt enough.
But I can tell you that betwen 1954 and 1959, every heavy in the top ten try to connive a shot at the Champ in one way or another. But the entrance fee was too high for many, or if you were too good, you had to beat a spoiler, a roll my father was some what content in filling looking back in hind sight, because the Champ had you working on TV and that wasnt too bad either.

To answer your question though, nothing between Norkus and Williams were in the works, just newspaper fodder.Viscusi knew that Weill sent my father in vs. Nardico and figured that his boy Williams might see his way through to Marciano that way.
Big Cat started around 1951 I believe and my father was moving along fast ahead of him at that time.
Also, Big Cat Williams, though fighting 10 Rds by 1953, my father's people probably would consider a Williams fight a step back. If my father didnt fight him somewhere along 1954 schedule for whatever reason, there was no way he was going to fight Williams in early 1955.My father could only lose ground there. My father fought no one but Charles in 1955 and he didnt want to risk losing to anyone after the Weill handshake. All he did was train and wait his turn on Ezzard Charles. Any heavy would have done the same if told he was next up pending.

The situation would turn around 180 degrees by 1956. Williams could only lose ground if he fought my father and they probably avoided each other unless told to fight by Brenner and Norris.

[Cholo]

Hey Rick, the Mando Ramos interview is it available on disc?

I'll send you a copy Paul, along with Rodolfo Gonzalez, Armando Muniz, Carlos Ortiz, George Benton, Yaqui Lopez, Lou Filippo & Gwen Adair inerviews on the same disc.[/quote]
Rick,