Carlos Monzon

Holyfield Headbutt · Post by **Holyfield Headbutt** » 25 Jan 2003, 20:53

Carlos Monzon is so horribly unappreciated. The best 160-pounder of all time and p4p one of the best in the history of the sport. 87-3-9 (59) speaks for itself, but throw in 14 title defenses (a record at the time till Hopkins beat it without the Ring world title in all of his title defenses) and an 81-fight, 13 year unbeaten streak and u have p4p probably a top 5 all-time Argentinian guy.
After turning pro in 63 he lost for the last time in 64. He won the Argentinian middle title from 97-7-1 Jorge Jose Fernandez, and in 67 beat Fernandez again but this time for the South America crown. he defended this title a few times before beating Hall-of-Famer, 82-4-1 Nino Benvenuti in the 1970 Fight of The Year with a 12th round KO. He proved this was no fluke by brutally crushing Benvenuti in the third round of their rematch. He then beat all-time great, Hall-of-Famer, and former welter and middle champ Emile Griffith with a 14th round tko. he continued to dominate the middlweight division, KOing 56-3-1 Jean Claude Bouttier, 64-3-1 Tom Bogs, decisioned Philly legend and tough guy Bennie Briscoe (who drew with Monzon in a previous fight). He went on to KO Hall-of-Famer and slick-boxing welter kindg Jose Napoles, and then "Escopeta" KOd 46-1-3 Tony Licata before having a struggle with tough as nails and 57-4-2 Rodrigo Valdez which he won by UD and again in the rematch. The Middlweight King was, accomplished, wealthy, and aging so he hung up the gloves. And thou the majority of ppl recognize him as the best middle ever, he continues to be unappreciated possibly due to lack of exposure in America. but whatever the reason its high time we give the late Monzon his due. he was great and id go as far as to say once again that he probably could be considered a top 5 p4per.

Gherardo Bonini · Post by **Gherardo Bonini** » 28 Jan 2003, 05:10

Dear friend,
concerning Monzon's greatness, with me, you preached to the converted ! I wrote once in this forum, I consider Monzon the best boxer I saw in action, at least from 1966 when I watched for first time seriously boxing, then greater than Ali, sorry for this.
What Monzon horribly did outside the ring, that weighs over his reputation into the ring...
See Benvenuti's case in respect of Arcari, whose name wants in International Boxing Hall of Fame (shame !!). Benvenuti was and still is a talkative, appropriate-term interlocutor for interviews, actor in films and publicity, present in battles defending former boxers, etc. On the other hand, 'bear' and crafty Arcari talked preferably in the rings with fists, devastating his opponents, Loche avoided him notoriously....Now in the Italian federation, Arcari works, nobody mentions him, but he works hardly and well, perhaps when he will be pensioned, nobody remember him...
C'est la vie......

Italian 4 U · Post by **Italian 4 U** » 28 Jan 2003, 11:43

[quote="Holyfield Headbutt"]Carlos Monzon is so horribly unappreciated.
/quote]

He is??? The Ring has him ranked #11 best fighter of the last 80 years. Pretty good stat if you ask me. They have him behind only Harry Greb and SRR (assuming Robinson was selected primarily due to what he did as a welter). Personally, I have him tied with Hagler for 2nd best middle ever. I have his fight with Napoles on order. Anyone know which fight of his was his best performance?

Tomato-Can · Post by **Tomato-Can** » 28 Jan 2003, 19:45

Both of his fights against Benvenuti were good.

Gherardo Bonini · Post by **Gherardo Bonini** » 29 Jan 2003, 04:09

Dear friends,
Monzon's best matches : my view 1) Valdez 1, 2) Benvenuti 1, 3) Griffith 4) Valdez 2, 5) Briscoe
Too weak Benvenuti in second match in Montecarlo, too light Napoles, albeit Hall of Famer.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 22 Sep 2005, 00:20

Saner minds prevailing in this thread. I would concur.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 22 Sep 2005, 00:23

wow this one was dug up

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 22 Sep 2005, 04:18

Monzon doesn't look flash at all but he was just fantastic. When he won the title is it true that he was a bit of anunknown and just sort of burst onto the scene. Any older heads out there remember?

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 22 Sep 2005, 09:19

Well some had an inkling I knew the guys in the know in Philly heard of him early on, knew he was coming and figured him to be a force. And he sure was. I rate him the number 1 MW of all time. I watched a lot of his fights so there is a pang of nostalgia. But I think you can make a good case for my belief.

I also watched the Marvelous ones career and very much liked him. But he was no Monzon in my estimation.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 22 Sep 2005, 09:21

Cheers Buzz

Monzon and Hagler's careers did overlap. Was there ever any talk of a fight between them?

Broncano · Post by **Broncano** » 22 Sep 2005, 11:51

buzz, you'd probably be surprised to find out that Carlos was a heavy smoker, before, during and after his boxing career. And I mean heavy as in 1 to 2 packs a day heavy.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 22 Sep 2005, 12:05

That is amazing how in the hell did he do it? What could he have accomplished with full lung capacity? Thats like going into a fight with one hand tied behind your back for 3 rounds.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 22 Sep 2005, 12:07

Broncano wrote:buzz, you'd probably be surprised to find out that Carlos was a heavy smoker, before, during and after his boxing career. And I mean heavy as in 1 to 2 packs a day heavy.

I have heard this too. I have also heard that he smoked more than cigarettes. there's somethign to it though, isn't there? he was the ultimate macho playboy boxer.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Sep 2005, 12:29

That is one of the amazing things about Monzon that he was really a wild man out of the ring... a playboy. Yet he got the results!. He used to criticise the training of the Philly fighters saying they trained too hard and fought too hard in sparring. Interestingly Nicolino Locche was a very heavy smoker as well.
Despite this both Carlos and Locche were known for their stamina I believe.
I'd put Monzon at 2nd all time Middleweight as I think perhaps Greb would have the edge over him but that fight could really go either way and Greb is really the only Middle I'd put over Monzon.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 22 Sep 2005, 12:47

There was one guy Carlos fought that he had a draw with that he didn't avenge.Why not?

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 22 Sep 2005, 12:51

I met Monzon in the eighties, when he visited Miami. His manager/trainer Almicar Brusa -a very nice man- was training the fighters in Tuto Zabala's squad - Happy Lora, Wilfredo Vazquez, Baby Rojas etc- and I was the matchmaker.

Monzon did smoke and had smoked in his days as a fighter, although in his days as a fighter he only had a few cigarretes a day and was not a chain smoker. He was a drinker who liked his booze and his personality was Jekyll-Hide. He was personable and likeable to me but the story on him was that he could go nuts with anger when something triggered him off.

Meeting him in person one was struck by his height and length of his arms. Brusa did a good job training him and taming him in his active years but Carlos had a demon inside of him.

I don't think he was as great as Harry Greb, Mickey Walker or Ray Robinson, but he was certainly one of the top five or ten middleweights of all time.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 22 Sep 2005, 13:56

enrique wrote:I met Monzon in the eighties, when he visited Miami. His manager/trainer Almicar Brusa -a very nice man- was training the fighters in Tuto Zabala's squad - Happy Lora, Wilfredo Vazquez, Baby Rojas etc- and I was the matchmaker.

Monzon did smoke and had smoked in his days as a fighter, although in his days as a fighter he only had a few cigarretes a day and was not a chain smoker. He was a drinker who liked his booze and his personality was Jekyll-Hide. He was personable and likeable to me but the story on him was that he could go nuts with anger when something triggered him off.

Meeting him in person one was struck by his height and length of his arms. Brusa did a good job training him and taming him in his active years but Carlos had a demon inside of him.

I don't think he was as great as Harry Greb, Mickey Walker or Ray Robinson, but he was certainly one of the top five or ten middleweights of all time.

Happy Lora, theres another great boxer I enjoy watching... didn't realise he was trained by the same man who trained Monzon.

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 22 Sep 2005, 14:42

Maybe because he was not an American o maybe he only fought one time in NYC, USA, may I have to think he does not get the nod as the best middleweight ever. To me, he was the greatest middleweight fighter that ever lived.

dnahar32 · Post by **dnahar32** » 22 Sep 2005, 19:51

Ezzard wrote:Monzon doesn't look flash at all but he was just fantastic. When he won the title is it true that he was a bit of anunknown and just sort of burst onto the scene. Any older heads out there remember?

Monzon became a Ring Top 10 contender in 1968 out of South America and had a draw with Bennie Briscoe. He was still relatively unknown however because he did not fight many name opponents early in his career before Nino.

Also, there was no chance of Monzon and Hagler fighting. Hagler was losing to Monroe and Hart while Monzon was finishing up his career. Plus, he was still raw at that point and a Monzon matchup would have been asking too much.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Sep 2005, 04:21

enrique wrote:I met Monzon in the eighties, when he visited Miami. His manager/trainer Almicar Brusa -a very nice man- was training the fighters in Tuto Zabala's squad - Happy Lora, Wilfredo Vazquez, Baby Rojas etc- and I was the matchmaker.

Monzon did smoke and had smoked in his days as a fighter, although in his days as a fighter he only had a few cigarretes a day and was not a chain smoker. He was a drinker who liked his booze and his personality was Jekyll-Hide. He was personable and likeable to me but the story on him was that he could go nuts with anger when something triggered him off.

Meeting him in person one was struck by his height and length of his arms. Brusa did a good job training him and taming him in his active years but Carlos had a demon inside of him.

I don't think he was as great as Harry Greb, Mickey Walker or Ray Robinson, but he was certainly one of the top five or ten middleweights of all time.

Enrique

That is some great experience to have met the man, truly amazing. Any other observations. Have you ever felt intimidated by any of these top fighters?

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 23 Sep 2005, 06:24

Where have some of these extremely knowledgable posters of not so long ago, gone?

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 23 Sep 2005, 06:29

bollox wrote:Where have some of these extremely knowledgable posters of not so long ago, gone?

I'm still here mate!...

8)

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 23 Sep 2005, 07:22

In response to Ezzard.... most fighters are not intimidating. Sonny Liston -whom I met in Chicago in the late sixties in my amateur days- was intimidating. He was not much of a talker and seemed to be pissed off all the time. He was probably not as surly as he seemed but he did seem intimidating.

Fighters are not very intimidating in person. Some are annoying or petulant prima donnas. I found Iran Barkley -whom I met at IBHOF- to be rather annoying and petty, but even then, it was just one meeting and maybe I caught him on a bad day.

Monzon had natural charisma and was likeable.

His drinking habit was not unusual among fighters from Argentina. A lot of them enjoyed their wine. Brusa used to tell a story of being in a restaurant with former contender Horacio Avaccallao and when the waiter came, Horacio ordered a bottle of wine.

"Red or white?" the waiter asked.

"Lots of it," the fighter answered.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Sep 2005, 08:57

enrique wrote:In response to Ezzard.... most fighters are not intimidating. Sonny Liston -whom I met in Chicago in the late sixties in my amateur days- was intimidating. He was not much of a talker and seemed to be pissed off all the time. He was probably not as surly as he seemed but he did seem intimidating.

Fighters are not very intimidating in person. Some are annoying or petulant prima donnas. I found Iran Barkley -whom I met at IBHOF- to be rather annoying and petty, but even then, it was just one meeting and maybe I caught him on a bad day.

Monzon had natural charisma and was likeable.

His drinking habit was not unusual among fighters from Argentina. A lot of them enjoyed their wine. Brusa used to tell a story of being in a restaurant with former contender Horacio Avaccallao and when the waiter came, Horacio ordered a bottle of wine.

"Red or white?" the waiter asked.

"Lots of it," the fighter answered.

Thanks for the reply Enrique

Meeting Liston must have been a thrill.

It doesn't surprise me that Monzon had charisma after seeing some of the ladies he had on his arm.

Interesting about Barkley...

Hope you don't mind answering these q's, Enrique. I know some people don't like to discuss their experiences but I find it fascinating. Who were the fighters you enjoyed meeting the most?

enrique · Post by **enrique** » 23 Sep 2005, 13:30

Ezzard--- I have been involved in boxing since I was 11 years old- I am 56 now- and I have been an amateur boxer, promoter, trainer, corner, color commentator, referee, matchmaker and journalist. I am the author of six books- 2 on boxing- and I work as a radio journalist -political- on air personality in Miami radio.

Since I've been around boxing so long, I've met hundreds of fighters. I have had the thrill that many of the people I read about when I was 11 became my friends years later.

My biggest thrill: meeting and spending three hours with Jack Dempsey at the basement of his restaurant when I was an 18 year old amateur.

The first champion I saw perform in the flesh: Joe Brown when he fought Joe Barrientes. What a kick for an impresionable 17 year old.

My father figure in boxing- Johnny Coulon who was champ in 1910 and taught me the sweet science in the sixties when I was a mediocre amateur.

Another thrills: becoming a friend of Luis Rodriguez and Ezzard Charles, spending hundreds of hours with Luis Sarria, meeting George Chuvalo at the hall of fame, working promotions with Roberto Duran, Macho Camacho, hanging out with Ferdie Pacheco, working corners against Angelo Dundee and Floyd Patterson, co writing a book with Hank Kaplan, sparring with Eddie Perkins, Ali and Allen Thomas, working twelve title fights with Tuto Zabala, travelling to Colombia for a Happy Lora fight to work with him....

I have had some really great times...and my life is not over.

Carlos Monzon

Carlos Monzon

Carlos Monzon

Re: Carlos Monzon