What If - Leonard v. Cuevas or Pryor, M. Spinks v. Saad

[crooked nose]

Fighters who just barely missed each other- who woulda won?
Leonard v. Cuevas
Leonard v. Pryor
Michael Spinks v. Matthew Saad Muhammad
Jeff Chandler v. Carlos Zarate
Jeff Chandler v. Wilfredo Gomez

my picks: Leonard KO Cuevas, Pryor KO Leonard, Spinks KO Saad (not without trouble) Chandler dec. Zarate, Gomez dec. Chandler.
Your thoughts?

[zurdo]

I agree with all your picks except Pryor over Leonard...If Leonard could survive the bombs of Tommy Hearns and Marvin Hagler then he wouldn't get stopped by Pryor..More likely it would be natural lightweight Pryor who would be eating some seroius leather from the bigger stonger more skilled Leonard

[crooked nose]

Leonard didn't really survive bombs from Hearns or Hagler - Hearns never landed his big ones, Hagler was not a one-punch banger anyway. Now, Pryor, on the other hand, did survive the best of a bona fide puncher - Arguello. If he could survive those, I can't see Leonard getting to him. Plus, remember in the first fight against Duran, Leonard was really thrown off by Duran's aggression and relentless pace. Pryor would have shown him the same. But that raises another interesting thought: what about Duran v. Pryor in '80 or '81?

[Holyfield Headbutt]

Aaron Pryor slaughters Ray Leonard, and Michael Spinks outpoints Matthew Saad Muhammad in a bloody one.

[jamesmcdonnell]

How ridiculous!

No way would Leonard get stopped by Pryor, based on what, the fact
that he stopped Arguello! Arguello won his first title at featherweight for crying out loud, and moved up to super feather then lightweight then
Jr Welter and lost to Pryor.

Arguello never won a title at light welter let alone welterweight, and in fact never even fought at welterweight, and yet Leonard who took shots off Hagler at middleweight, Duran at welterweight, Hearns, who despite what you say did land some bombs on Leonard in their fight, and even LaLonde at Super middleweight, would have been knocked out by a guy who never had a single fight at welterweight? Highly unlikely.

Leonard would have danced rings around Pryor and frustrated him, Pryor was a great fighter, but do you think he would have beaten Benitez, I very much doubt it, well, Leonard did. Pryor was too small, he would have been outreached by Leonard who also held the advantage in handspeed, unlike Arguello, who was a slower and more static fighter, and who was fighting well above his natural weight by the time he fought Pryor.

Leonard also had the heart of a lion despite his reputation, a great chin, and when needed the power to turn a fight, just like he did against Hearns.

Leonard would not have been there to be hit like that by Pryor, Arguello On the contrary, Leonard would have been more likely to stop Pryor than the other way around. If a skilled boxer/puncher like Duran couldn't stop Leonard, no way that the more crude Pryor does.

[crooked nose]

Pryor "crude"? Better look again. Pryor had the same extensive amateur background as Leonard. He was not an unschooled brawler. He forced the action, to be sure, but he was not wild. Look at the speed, accuracy and weight of his punches. He would force a cutie like Leonard to fight at his pace. Yes, Leonard had more heart and toughness than he is given credit for, but Pryor was physically stronger. I still say Pryor wins.
Does anyone have the vitals on Leonard and Pryor - height? reach?

[jamesmcdonnell]

When i said crude, i meant compared to Duran, who was a better all-around fighter, though he is strangely categorised as a brawler by many.

Leonard 5'10 reach 74
Pryor 5'6 1/2 not sure about reach.

Again I remind everyone that Pryor never even fought at Welter.

[MightyWarrior]

Leonard v. Cuevas - Leonard takes out the tough Mexican similar to the way Hearns did, probably around 4 rounds.

Leonard v. Pryor - Leonard on points. Too big, too skilled. It was mooted for awhile, after the first Hearns win, but then Ray retired. Pitty as it would've been a great fight. Pryor is one of my all-time favorites, but he didn't have a big enough punch to trouble Leonard. Would've been difficult for Ray though ( Pryor beat Hearns as an amateur ) but I think he wins over 15 rounds.

Michael Spinks v. Matthew Saad Muhammad - Spinks points or late TKO over Miracle Matthew.

Jeff Chandler v. Carlos Zarate - A peak Zarate might've ko'd Joltin' Jeff, but it'd be a close one.

Jeff Chandler v. Wilfredo Gomez - Gomez late TKO

[Giancarlo]

Some interesting matchups here

[Rover]

SRL
SRL
Spinks

[gilgamesh]

SRL
SRL
Spinks

This

[Giancarlo]

The original poster was matching Joltin' Jeff tough!

[Rover]

I'd take Jeff over Carlos and Wilfredo over Jeff, who never did much at 122.

[Nile4000]

Leonard kayoes Cuevas in five. He kayoes Pryor in three. Michael Spinks decisions Matthew Saad Muhammad in 15. Jeff Chandler beats Carlos Zarate by split decision in 15, and loses to Wilfredo Gomez by majority decision in 15, in what would be Gomez's toughest fight.

[BoxBuzz]

For 15 years I've had to push back against those who never really saw Pryor in the ring. I saw him many times....I was a fan.....and I honestly appreciate his potential and his limits.

So much so, that I've had to help people curb their enthusiasm over his VERY WELL managed career.

It's not that I lost my belief in him, or my positive interest in his career, it's just that his T.V. wins over Arguello just catapulted him way beyond reason.


Sort of like how many George Foreman Grills were sold, and those Chicken Rotisserie's it's all due to perfect T.V. promotion.

Ray would knock him out.....Duran would do it even faster than Ray.

[elmersalsa]

I don't think the great Aaron Pryor could stand Pipino Cuevas' power.

[Nile4000]

If Duran has caught Cuevas at the right time, he would have felt the heat.

[sweetviolenturge]

Cuevas is an underrated champion as he was able to retain his WBA title against some very good fighters during his time like Harold Weston Jr., Pete Ranzany & Randy Shields. I don't think he gets his just due these days because of how easily ( & brutally! ) Hearns took his title from him.
That being said, he would have been just as out of his depth against Leonard. Only not quite as quickly. I think it would have taken Leonard about five, maybe six rounds to deal with him.
As for Saad Muhammad vs Spinks, I think Michael would have been all wrong for him & would have stopped him in about 6 rounds. He'd have just been too wide open for the Spinks jinx IMO.

[giacomino]

Leonard KO's Cuevas around round 7-9. I respect Cuevas' power but he was simply too slow and wide for Leonard, IMO
SRL KO in round 12-14 over Pryor. Great fight, the naturally bigger fighter wears Pryor down.
Spinks UDs Muhammad
Zárate KO's Chandler in round 8, or Chandler wins SD
Gómez KO's Chandler in round 12

[elmersalsa]

Leonard KO's Cuevas around round 7-9. I respect Cuevas' power but he was simply too slow and wide for Leonard, IMO
SRL KO in round 12-14 over Pryor. Great fight, the naturally bigger fighter wears Pryor down.
Spinks UDs Muhammad
Zárate KO's Chandler in round 8, or Chandler wins SD
Gómez KO's Chandler in round 12

I can't envision the great Aaron Pryor lasting that long with a guy like Sugar Ray. I'd give him about 8 rounds maximum in an entertaining scrap.

I think that Leonard is all wrong for The Cincinnati Hawk in this fight. Pryor loses at his very best against any one of the Fab 4.

[giacomino]

Leonard KO's Cuevas around round 7-9. I respect Cuevas' power but he was simply too slow and wide for Leonard, IMO
SRL KO in round 12-14 over Pryor. Great fight, the naturally bigger fighter wears Pryor down.
Spinks UDs Muhammad
Zárate KO's Chandler in round 8, or Chandler wins SD
Gómez KO's Chandler in round 12

I can't envision the great Aaron Pryor lasting that long with a guy like Sugar Ray. I'd give him about 8 rounds maximum in an entertaining scrap.

I think that Leonard is all wrong for The Cincinnati Hawk in this fight. Pryor loses at his very best against any one of the Fab 4.

I agee with your last statement, but Pryor was tough and skilled and I can see him hanging on against all of them until late. The one I would have paid a lot to see was Duran vs Pryor. Roberto would have eventually won via KO or UD but it would have been an epic fight

[Chuck1052]

Pipino Cuevas had a powerful left-hook, but very little in terms of skill. I feel that the likes of Sugar Ray Leonard, a vintage Roberto Duran, Wilfredo Benitez and Carlos Palomino would take Cuevas at his best apart, much like Thomas Hearns did.

- Chuck Johnston

[elmersalsa]

Pipino Cuevas was just a bomber. An all out puncher that lived and died with the punch. I can see him knocking out the great Aaron Pryor because he would have been too big and his punching power was off the chain. He was almost close to the other Hawk, Julian Jackson.

I can't see Pipino beating Sugar Ray, either. Leonard was too good for him. I see a 9th or 10th round technical knockout or unanimous decision.

[ClivePatrickLyons]

SRL would beat Pipino Cuevas by a 8th round TKO while well ahead on points to fast
SRL would have used all his tool's too out smart out speed out wit The Hawk and win a very entertaining un dec
Michael Spinks beats Mathew Saad by 15th round TKO in a titanic struggle whilest ahead on the card's....with the class of Michael prevailing.
Carlos Zarate is pushed all the way by the thin man Chandler to win a split dec
Wilfredo Gomez would have stopped Chandler in 7 one-sided round's too big too strong