klompton wrote:considering most of those guys were better than anyone jack fought id say its all within the realm of possibility. but since you want to argue a green ali vs a prime dempsey: would ali have been cold cocked in 1 like dempsey was against flynn? had his ribs caved in by j. k. johnson? would ali have been floored nine time on 1 rd by middleweight johnny sudenberg? would ali have gone life and death with human punching bag terry keller? would ali have gone 1-0-2 with mediocre al norton? would ali have gone 1-1-2 with obese willie meehan who turned pro at 98 pounds? yeah. i didnt think so. you can keep going but there is absolutely no comparison between the two and we can keep coming back to dempseys protected, color sensitive record as champ vs alis stellar record as champ. hell you bash zora folley who was the #1 contender. a black #1 contender is something dempsey avoided like the plague for 7 yrs. that right there bumps him to the back of the bus as far as im concerned.
I didn't know Dempsey fought a 98 pound guy. Who sanctioned that? (SARCASM)
I imagine all of Ali's opponents weighed 98 pounds at one time, that one time being when they were in grade school.
klompton wrote:considering most of those guys were better than anyone jack fought id say its all within the realm of possibility. but since you want to argue a green ali vs a prime dempsey: would ali have been cold cocked in 1 like dempsey was against flynn? had his ribs caved in by j. k. johnson? would ali have been floored nine time on 1 rd by middleweight johnny sudenberg? would ali have gone life and death with human punching bag terry keller? would ali have gone 1-0-2 with mediocre al norton? would ali have gone 1-1-2 with obese willie meehan who turned pro at 98 pounds? yeah. i didnt think so. you can keep going but there is absolutely no comparison between the two and we can keep coming back to dempseys protected, color sensitive record as champ vs alis stellar record as champ. hell you bash zora folley who was the #1 contender. a black #1 contender is something dempsey avoided like the plague for 7 yrs. that right there bumps him to the back of the bus as far as im concerned.
I understand there wasn't much of a box office for colored, read African American , fighter's beating up white fighters but as a true sportsman Dempsey should have given them a chance.
Harry Wills was one of the highest paid fighters of the era. He fought on the undercard of Harry Greb's title defense against WW champion Mickey Walker and made more than either Greb or Walker. A fight between Wills and Dempsey would have made any of Dempsey's other box office fights look minuscule.
Last edited by klompton on 24 Sep 2013, 22:03, edited 1 time in total.
klompton wrote:Harry Wills was one of the highest paid fighters of the era. He fought on the undercard of Harry Greb's title defense against WW champion Mickey Walker and made more than either Greb or Walker.
Then that makes Dempsey's actions even worse.
Last edited by ThatOne on 24 Sep 2013, 22:07, edited 1 time in total.
The point was that Meehan was not a natural heavyweight. In fact he was overweight as a middleweight. Yet a guy who was probably more of a natural welterweight outboxed Dempsey in 2 four rounds and drew with him in two more. Dempsey's fans always say "yeah but they were only four rounders" Sorry but that excuse doesnt hold water. The first four rounds of every fight belonged to Dempsey just like they belonged to Tyson. Its not like Dempsey was some marathon runner style fighter who expected to see the late rounds. He went after a guy early and yet Meehan owned those rounds against Dempsey.
klompton wrote:The point was that Meehan was not a natural heavyweight. In fact he was overweight as a middleweight. Yet a guy who was probably more of a natural welterweight outboxed Dempsey in 2 four rounds and drew with him in two more. Dempsey's fans always say "yeah but they were only four rounders" Sorry but that excuse doesnt hold water. The first four rounds of every fight belonged to Dempsey just like they belonged to Tyson. Its not like Dempsey was some marathon runner style fighter who expected to see the late rounds. He went after a guy early and yet Meehan owned those rounds against Dempsey.
I read that Dempsey openly admitted to ducking Sam Langford "because he was scared of him". Is that correct?
p4p1 wrote:^^^ That's unreal I would never think someone like Jack would admit to that.
"The hell I feared no man. There was one man I wouldn’t fight because I knew he would flatten me. I was afraid of Sam Langford.” -- Jack Dempsey
Just remember that when Muhammad Ali fought George Foreman , George Foreman was coming off wins over Joe Frazier that he knocked down six times on his way to a second round TKO and ken Norton who he almost knocked out of the ring on his way to a second round TKO and Ali was unable to even score a knockdown against either boxer in fifty one rounds of boxing.
Did Cassius Clay make habit of 'ducking' White Fighters..........
I think he went out of his way to be with 'White Guys'.............
1964 thru 1967 Reign
* Floyd Patterson
* George Chuvalo
* Brian London
* Henry Cooper
* Karl Mildenberger
or 'Old Black Guys'
* Sonny Liston {x2}
* Cleveland Williams
* Zora Folley
* Only Ernie Terrell was a capable opponent, a 'superior mediocre' fighter.
Every one of them would be favorites or live dogs against Dempsey.
Muhammad Ali was champion for just over three years during his first reign which Douche continually bashes without acknowledging his second reign. During that three years he defended his title against FIVE #1 contenders (four black guys and a white guy for the record). Jack Dempsey was champion for just over seven years and NEVER ONCE DEFENDED AGAINST A MAN WHO WOULD BE CONSIDERED HIS #1 CONTENDER. For the vast majority of that time he avoided his #2 contender... a middleweight... who couldnt punch... Nuff said.
Instead Dempsey hawked a snake oil called Nuxated Iron and later cat food... stay classy Dempsey.
Yet another hypocrisy.
Kind of like your love of a draft dodger like Dempsey while denigrating Ali for the same. Or your love of Dempsey, whose relationship with professional wrestling lasted longer than his association with boxing and included mixed matches and farces, yet denigrate Ali for Inoki...
Jack Dempsey was a 'Bum'.....a third-rate fighter.
And he never fought on Television, because he couldn't pull in any Ratings........
The TV Sport Network Heads said he was.........'Box Office Poison'.........
Get me some .....D-Con........For-Gone
Like I said,,,,,,,You can be famous too,......all you have to do is sacrifice class.
What's less classier?
Doing a cheesy commercial
or
pimping out your wife?
Lets not forget he supposedly acted as a stud to break young whores as well and broke his wife Maxine's jaw. Since Douche likes to quote ex wives about Ali maybe we should quote old Maxine on Dempsey... she had all kinds of interesting things to say about Jack.
klompton wrote:Instead Dempsey hawked a snake oil called Nuxated Iron and later cat food... stay classy Dempsey.
Yet another hypocrisy.
Kind of like your love of a draft dodger like Dempsey while denigrating Ali for the same. Or your love of Dempsey, whose relationship with professional wrestling lasted longer than his association with boxing and included mixed matches and farces, yet denigrate Ali for Inoki...
Jack Dempsey was a 'Bum'.....a third-rate fighter.
And he never fought on Television, because he couldn't pull in any Ratings........
The TV Sport Network Heads said he was.........'Box Office Poison'.........
Get me some .....D-Con........For-Gone
Like I said,,,,,,,You can be famous too,......all you have to do is sacrifice class.
What's less classier?
Doing a cheesy commercial
or
pimping out your wife?
Lets not forget he supposedly acted as a stud to break young whores as well and broke his wife Maxine's jaw. Since Douche likes to quote ex wives about Ali maybe we should quote old Maxine on Dempsey... she had all kinds of interesting things to say about Jack.
Wow.. That doesn't seem very classy...Ali slapped Sonji Roi and he regretted it but that's not nearly as bad as breaking her jaw as did Dempsey did with his wife.
klompton wrote:Instead Dempsey hawked a snake oil called Nuxated Iron and later cat food... stay classy Dempsey.
Yet another hypocrisy.
Kind of like your love of a draft dodger like Dempsey while denigrating Ali for the same. Or your love of Dempsey, whose relationship with professional wrestling lasted longer than his association with boxing and included mixed matches and farces, yet denigrate Ali for Inoki...
Lots of boxers including Joe Walcott and Joe Louis affiliated themselves with wrestling... Funny Dempsey's affiliation with wrestling was never mentioned in Kahn's biography of him. I am beginning to think I was misled.
Did Cassius Clay make habit of 'ducking' White Fighters..........
I think he went out of his way to be with 'White Guys'.............
1964 thru 1967 Reign
* Floyd Patterson
* George Chuvalo
* Brian London
* Henry Cooper
* Karl Mildenberger
or 'Old Black Guys'
* Sonny Liston {x2}
* Cleveland Williams
* Zora Folley
* Only Ernie Terrell was a capable opponent, a 'superior mediocre' fighter.
Every one of them would be favorites or live dogs against Dempsey.
LOL, you're letting emotions get the best of you now. The wreck of Cleveland Williams that Ali fought would be lucky to be alive if he fought Dempsey.
Miske lived... and he was a smaller dying wreck of the fighter he once had been than Williams. He even managed to last longer against Dempsey than Williams did against Ali...
