Rudi Lubbers 'I Could Have Defeated George Foreman'

[ThatOne]

Question

How do you 'equate', that Rudi Lubbers goes 12-Rounds with Muhammad Ali, yet Muhammad Ali stops
George Foreman.

Now be honest,,,,,,,,,,,That's OK, you can say it.

Muhammad Ali is not recognized as the knockout puncher that Foreman is. He was a very good fighter who could hurt guys and did hurt guys on a regular basis, but he was never considered a monstrous puncher that would "destroy" guys...in most cases anyhow.

Ali's stopping Foreman had just as much to do with mental and physical exhaustion as it had to do with the power of his punches. Ali exhausted Foreman by being able to take everything he could dish out and continue to counter back with snapping, jarring shots of his own that eventually broke down Foreman's resistance.

Rudi Lubbers achievement of having gone the distance with Muhammad Ali is certainly nothing to scoff at and dismiss. I'm sure it was a legitimately game and brave effort from Lubbers and I'm sure he fought to the best of his ability that night.

But a fighter's career is not based on his performance against one man.

Foreman could not beat Ali this is true, Lubbers couldn't beat Ali either.

But Foreman and Lubbers records aside from Muhammad Ali speak for themselves. I mean Joe Frazier went the distance with Ali twice beating him once...it sure didn't help him against Foreman.

Ken Norton went the distance with Ali 3 times, beating him once and arguably deserving at least 1 more of the decisions in their other 2 fights. Didn't help him against Foreman.

George Chuvalo went the distance with Ali....guess what happened when he fought Foreman?

The scoring system for Ali vs Lubbers was I assume scored under the 5 point must system. and the scores were 60-40, 60-45, and 59-52.

So basically that means 1 of 3 judges felt Lubbers won 1 round, and the other 2 felt he won none.

At the time of the KO in Ali vs Foreman. The judges had it 4-2-1, 3-0-4, and 4-1-2 in Ali's favor.

So officially Foreman had won 2 more rounds against Ali than Lubbers did despite having been KO'ed.

Foreman was 76-5 with 68 KO's...a devastating KO puncher who very few men ever survived the distance against. Lubbers was 28-8 with 13 KO's nowhere near the puncher that Foreman was, and his best wins pale in comparison to Foreman's best wins.



I don't know how I could explain it to you any more thoroughly. If you genuinely believe Lubbers could defeat the George Foreman of Zaire then you are either hopelessly ignorant, or just f*cking with me.

At any rate. I've thoroughly explained my case.

If you want to come up with as many reasons as I did here of why Lubbers defeats Foreman I'd read it. Though you might want to wash your hands after pulling all of the reasons you do out of your ass.

Il Duce is a boxing novice. He doesn't realize that styles make fights.

[gilgamesh]

Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

He was stopped 4 times though. Ali was only stopped once and that was when he was shot to hell going against a prime Larry Holmes. Lubbers trained 9 months for his fight with Muhammad Ali, Ali trained 10 days, but yes he did fight Ken Norton just one month prior to his fight with Lubbers.

[ThatOne]

Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

Rudi was stopped four times by such all time greats as Gordon Racette, Alfredo Evangelista, Mike Schutte and Dominico Adinolfi.


I would bet my d--k pre 75 Ali could beat all four of those guys on the same night in a series of four rounders. I would bet my left testicle that he can stop at least three of them in the alotted four rounds.

[gilgamesh]

Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

Rudi was stopped four times by such all time greats as Gordon Racette, Alfredo Evangelista, Mike Schutte and Dominico Adinolfi.


I would bet my d--k pre 75 Ali could beat all four of those guys on the same night in a series of four rounders. I would bet my left testicle that he can stop at least three of them in the alotted four rounds.

I assume you think he'd stop Racette, Schutte and Adinolfi then. He did in fact fight Evangelista and go the 15 round distance against him.

Of course this was the 1977 Ali who was nearing the end of his run at the top.

[gilgamesh]

Rudi Lubbers 'trained' for 9-Months

So you were in Holland watching him train, from February 1973 thru October 1973.

Let me see your 'Dutch Boy Wooden Shoes'........

I read that he had trained 9 months for the fight. How accurate those reports were I'm not sure. At any rate he was well prepared to give his best effort that night, and by surviving the distance against Ali he did accomplish that.

[gilgamesh]

Here, Rudi Lubbers has Muhammad Ali 'dipping', after landing a short left hook to the ribs.

The man in that photograph does not look like Muhammad Ali for one thing.

Even if it were, he lost all 12 rounds on 2 scorecards and 11 on the other. He survived....that's all.

He wasn't a threat to win the fight.

[ThatOne]

Rudi Lubbers

Rudi was not in the best shape physically when he fought Muhammad Ali in
October 1973.

He had been out of the Ring for '10-Months' and had been sitting around since 'June 1973'
waiting.

On the other hand, Muhammad Ali {217 lbs.} was in the 'best' physical shape of his {comeback career},
coming off of a September 1973 bout with Ken Norton.

And as for 'chins', the difference between Muhammad Ali and Rudi Lubbers..........

Rudi had 'never' been floored.

Rudi was stopped four times by such all time greats as Gordon Racette, Alfredo Evangelista, Mike Schutte and Dominico Adinolfi.


I would bet my d--k pre 75 Ali could beat all four of those guys on the same night in a series of four rounders. I would bet my left testicle that he can stop at least three of them in the alotted four rounds.

I assume you think he'd stop Racette, Schutte and Adinolfi then. He did in fact fight Evangelista and go the 15 round distance against him.

Of course this was the 1977 Ali who was nearing the end of his run at the top.

Of course I watched the Evangelista fight live. That's why i used the pre 75 or pre Manilla Ali. IMHO, he was pretty much done as a fighter after that.

If Rudi fought Foreman with a sleepy ref he might very well have got himself killed or seriously hurt.

[ThatOne]

Here, Rudi Lubbers has Muhammad Ali 'dipping', after landing a short left hook to the ribs.

The man in that photograph does not look like Muhammad Ali for one thing.

Even if it were, he lost all 12 rounds on 2 scorecards and 11 on the other. He survived....that's all.

He wasn't a threat to win the fight.

Ali wasn't even that out of shape for the Berbick fight where he weighed in at a svelte 236 1/2 pounds

[gilgamesh]

Rudi Lubbers

Fact,

Rudi could not have trained '9-months' for Muhammad Ali.

He signed the 'fight contract' in mid-June 1973. At best, that's 3+ Months.

Not too many decent Heavyweight 'sparring-partners' in The Netherlands at that time.

There are a lot of fighters today who are from places that don't offer good sparring partners. They move to a location where they can find them.

It wouldn't have mattered how much time Lubbers would've had to train for Ali or Foreman in 1973 or 1974 respectively, he wouldn't have stood a chance against either of them.

[ThatOne]

Wrong

Rudi was only 'lightly bruised' on his face from Muhammad Ali's punches.

As per Rudi,

"Joe Bugner hit harder than Muhammad Ali. Muhammad was 'faster' by far and the much
better boxer. But, Muhammad had a tendency to 'quit' after he landed a good punch,
if you came back with your own punch."

If you can provide a citation I'll write a check for $1,000.00 to the owners of this site to help provide for upkeep.

[ThatOne]

Lubbers doesn't beat the thirty nine year old Parkinson's ridden Ali who lost a decision to Berbick. He really doesn't. Nor does he beat a 64 year old Big George today if he had ample time to train.

[ThatOne]

Actually,

The Muhammad Ali Camp sent '39' year-old Dave Bailey {Muhammad Ali 'sparring-partner}
over to Cologne, Germany in December 1971 to 'test out' Rudi Lubbers.

Muhammad, after losing to Joe Frazier in March 1971, was out to embark on a European Tour,
and ABC-TV was looking to line up bouts with 'capable' but non-threatening European
Heavyweights {ie; Jurgen Blin}.

Dave Bailey was sent in the see what Rudi Lubbers had.

Dave was 'KO'd in 4'.

Rudi was 'too good', and was scratched off the list.

First of all there has never been a European that could beat any reasonably intact version of the GOAT. Second of all after he lost to Frazier the GOAT set to clean out the heavyweight division. He beat Jimmy Ellis, Mac Foster, Bob Foster, Jerry Quarry, Floyd Patterson, Blue Lewis, and George Chuvalo in that time period. The GOAT wasn't looking for easy fights. The GOAT was looking for easy fights after the Rumble In the Jungle and especially the Thrilla In Manilla.

What did he have left to prove?

Nothing. That's right.

[ThatOne]

Buster Mathis was for real. He beat Joe Frazier in the Olympic tryouts but couldn't represent the USA because he broke his right hand. He also gave Frazier a tough match as a pro.

Oh, and he would have separated the diminutive Mr. Lubbers from his senses.


P.S. The GOAT beat Jimmy Ellis, Mac Foster, Bob Foster, Jerry Quarry, Floyd Patterson, Blue Lewis, Joe Bugner, and George Chuvalo in that time period. They all would be heavy favorites against the diminutive Mr. Lubbers.

[ThatOne]

June 2, 1973

Fight announced for October 12, 1973

Muhammad Ali vs. Rudi Lubbers

In the meantime, Heavyweight Champion - George Foreman was trying to line up a Title Defense against;
* Larry Middleton
* Oscar Bonavena
* Kenny Norton
* Jose Manuel Urtain
* Jurgen Blin

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... jyh7ebmwYg

All guys the GOAT had beat or could beat. In fact the GOAT was the only fighter to ever stop Ringo.
Foreman's and his handlers plans were to wait for the GOAT to get too old to be a threat. They didn't wait long enough.

[ThatOne]

Big George and Ringo fought 149 times. The only fighter to stop both men was the "feather fisted" Cassius Clay.

Go figure...

[gilgamesh]

Actually,

The Muhammad Ali Camp sent '39' year-old Dave Bailey {Muhammad Ali 'sparring-partner}
over to Cologne, Germany in December 1971 to 'test out' Rudi Lubbers.

Muhammad, after losing to Joe Frazier in March 1971, was out to embark on a European Tour,
and ABC-TV was looking to line up bouts with 'capable' but non-threatening European
Heavyweights {ie; Jurgen Blin}.

Dave Bailey was sent in the see what Rudi Lubbers had.

Dave was 'KO'd in 4'.

Rudi was 'too good', and was scratched off the list.

Strange, cuz it sure seems like his name is on the list.

[gilgamesh]

Rudi Lubbers

Muhammad Ali 'only' fought him, after he was worn down by Joe Bugner.

Muhammad Ali {3" taller} and {20 lbs. heavier}, always the 'bully'.

I'm done with this thread. If you think Ali didn't want to fight Lubbers in 1972 or '71 because he was "Too good" for Ali. You are either a troll who's thing is to hate on Ali or an absolute idiot.

Either way I'm done wasting my time with this conversation.

You're the only idiot on this entire forum who would be saying the things you are saying. Even other Ali haters wouldn't go so far as to suggest that Ali avoided Lubbers or that Lubbers could've defeated Foreman because they would know it's just nonsense.

[ThatOne]

Rudi Lubbers

Muhammad Ali 'only' fought him, after he was worn down by Joe Bugner.

Muhammad Ali {3" taller} and {20 lbs. heavier}, always the 'bully'.

I'm done with this thread. If you think Ali didn't want to fight Lubbers in 1972 or '71 because he was "Too good" for Ali. You are either a troll who's thing is to hate on Ali or an absolute idiot.

Either way I'm done wasting my time with this conversation.

You're the only idiot on this entire forum who would be saying the things you are saying. Even other Ali haters wouldn't go so far as to suggest that Ali avoided Lubbers or that Lubbers could've defeated Foreman because they would know it's just nonsense.

I missed that chestnut from Il Bugiardo. Instead of facing the diminutive Mr. Lubbers he faced Jimmy Ellis, Blue Lewis, Mac Foster, and Buster Mathis who outweighed him by thirty pounds.

[Flump]

Il Duce, did you know that Ali did a television interview between rounds with Reg Gutteridge during this fight?

[ThatOne]

Il Duce, did you know that Ali did a television interview between rounds with Reg Gutteridge during this fight?

Yes I do, it was a 'diversionary ploy' to take away from his inept performance against a small Dutchman.

Do you also know, that the Senayan Stadium was woefully empty, as only 25,000 Indonesians showed up
to a Stadium that held 125,000.

The fans even got tired of booing Muhammad Ali, and many fell asleep.......

I have pictures........

Il bugiardo, how is winning twelve of twelve rounds on two cards and eleven of twelve rounds on the other an inept performance?

[Flump]

Il Duce, did you know that Ali did a television interview between rounds with Reg Gutteridge during this fight?

Yes I do, it was a 'diversionary ploy' to take away from his inept performance against a small Dutchman.

Do you also know, that the Senayan Stadium was woefully empty, as only 25,000 Indonesians showed up
to a Stadium that held 125,000.

The fans even got tired of booing Muhammad Ali, and many fell asleep.......

I have pictures........

Yes it was not a great spectacle. Still, you can't beat Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Ken Norton, Joe Frazier and George Foreman every fight I guess

[ThatOne]

Muhammad Ali vs. Deep Purple

At the Senayan Stadium,

'Deep Purple' by a "Knockout" {KO 2}, as the Hard Rock Band pulls in 150,000 Indonesians on December 4, 1975....

Muhammad Ali, the most famous person in the World,,,,,,,,,,,,'I Think Not'

[img]http://img98. .us/img98/5139/flyerpromohy0.jpg[/img]

Only a cipher would compare a second rate heavy metal band with one of the seminal figures of the twentieth century.

[ThatOne]

This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[gilgamesh]

Muhammad Ali vs. Deep Purple

At the Senayan Stadium,

'Deep Purple' by a "Knockout" {KO 2}, as the Hard Rock Band pulls in 150,000 Indonesians on December 4, 1975....

Muhammad Ali, the most famous person in the World,,,,,,,,,,,,'I Think Not'

[img]http://img98. .us/img98/5139/flyerpromohy0.jpg[/img]

A Rock concert is a far more Festive occasion than a Prize fight. Particularly a one-sided one.

I'd rather see Deep Purple live in their heyday than Ali vs Lubbers as well.

[ThatOne]

Muhammad Ali vs. Deep Purple

At the Senayan Stadium,

'Deep Purple' by a "Knockout" {KO 2}, as the Hard Rock Band pulls in 150,000 Indonesians on December 4, 1975....

Muhammad Ali, the most famous person in the World,,,,,,,,,,,,'I Think Not'

[img]http://img98. .us/img98/5139/flyerpromohy0.jpg[/img]

A Rock concert is a far more Festive occasion than a Prize fight. Particularly a one-sided one.

I'd rather see Deep Purple live in their heyday than Ali vs Lubbers as well.

Woodstock or Rumble In The Jungle. I'd ask Il Bugiardo but I know he would say Grand Ole Opry.