Juan Manuel Marquez: A top 100 Pound per Pound All Time?

[elmersalsa]

After reviewing his record, I got to include him in the top 100 all time p4p list. A great fighter, indeed. What are your thoughts on this guy?

Does he belongs in the top 100 and why?

[davemurphy]

After reviewing his record, I got to include him in the top 100 all time p4p list. A great fighter, indeed. What are your thoughts on this guy?

Does he belongs in the top 100 and why?

Possibly, but it's just barely and I can think of at least 15-20 guys off the top of my head that could easily replace him with little argument from me. I think the strongest argument is that he ranks highly among All-time Mexican fighters, where I think most people would probably have him in their top five. To me though, he lost his most important fights and I don't think it's something automatic.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Absolutely, he's right there with Chavez

[RadioElRadar]

Lower echelons but no doubt for me, no matter what happens in the remainder of his career.

[gilgamesh]

Absolutely, he's right there with Chavez

If Pacquiao is around #40 or 50 all time, Marquez can't be too far behind.

[p4p1]

Absolutely, he's right there with Chavez

If Pacquiao is around #40 or 50 all time, Marquez can't be too far behind.

I honestly don't think the 2 are close in the rankings, Marquez is great but not as great as Pac he just seemed to really step up his game whenever he fought him.

[Seamus]

I actually think he comes up a little short. Divide all the weight divisions by 100 and you might see what I mean. Definite Hall of Famer though.

[gilgamesh]

Absolutely, he's right there with Chavez

If Pacquiao is around #40 or 50 all time, Marquez can't be too far behind.

I honestly don't think the 2 are close in the rankings, Marquez is great but not as great as Pac he just seemed to really step up his game whenever he fought him.

I think he'd crack the Top 100 though, even if you had him 30-50 notches below Manny, he'd still be Top 100.

[thunderfromdownunder]

Definitely

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Absolutely, he's right there with Chavez

If Pacquiao is around #40 or 50 all time, Marquez can't be too far behind.

I honestly don't think the 2 are close in the rankings, Marquez is great but not as great as Pac he just seemed to really step up his game whenever he fought him.

I clearly would rate Pac over marquez, Marquez and Chavez are neck and neck.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I actually think he comes up a little short. Divide all the weight divisions by 100 and you might see what I mean. Definite Hall of Famer though.

That's silly. Dividing every division by 100 leaves less than 6. That rules out a lot of great fighters and you're stuck with guys like Finito & Calderon that have no business in a top 100.

[Seamus]

I typed hastily, what I really meant was divide 100 by the number of weight divisions.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I typed hastily, what I really meant was divide 100 by the number of weight divisions.

LOL, my answer is the same.

[Ezzard]

I'd say he does. The Pac win must count very highly...and all his fights with Pac put him up there.

Top 100 or not though a truly great fighter.

[RadioElRadar]

His success v Pacquiao over 4 fights gets him in but it doesn't mean they're inseparable in the rankings, for me.

Willie Pep's clearly ahead of Sandy Saddler in most people's estimation despite going 1-3 against him. Similarly, Pacquiao's overall resume is just a lot better than Marquez's even if, like me, you have their rivalry (unofficially) 3-1 in JMM's favour.

[elmersalsa]

The great Julio Cesar Chavez is by far, better fighter than The great Juan Manuel Marquez. I do not think that Marquez was better than these Mexican greats:
Salvador Sanchez
Ruben Olivares
Miguel Canto
Carlos Zarate
Finito Lopez
Vicente Saldivar
Probably, by the end of his career, he probably be considered better than Saldivar and Finito. Guys that I consider top 100 material.

[Seamus]

I'd throw in Baby Arizmendi as well.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The great Julio Cesar Chavez is by far, better fighter than The great Juan Manuel Marquez. I do not think that Marquez was better than these Mexican greats:
Salvador Sanchez
Ruben Olivares
Miguel Canto
Carlos Zarate
Finito Lopez
Vicente Saldivar
Probably, by the end of his career, he probably be considered better than Saldivar and Finito. Guys that I consider top 100 material.

He is infinitely greater than Finito or Canto. Lopez is quite possibly the most overrated fighter in history.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'd throw in Baby Arizmendi as well.

Definitely. Olivares, Arizmendi, Morales, Barrera, Sanchez, Chavez, Marquez, Saldivar & Zarate are the cream of the crop. You can make a case for any of them being the best.

Lopez was immensely talented, his resume wouldn't crack my top 15 Mexicans and to quote the great Elmer Salsa, Ricardo Lopes is nowhere near a top 100 fighter.

[elmersalsa]

Of all the best Mexican fighters ever, I rank Marquez over Finito Lopez, Marco Antonio Barrera and Vicente Saldivar which is a great group of guys.
Marquez falls short with Chavez, Sanchez, Olivares and Zarate. That means in my view of Mexico's best, Marquez ranks 5th.
All of them great fighters in the top 100 pound per pound. That win against the great Manny Pacquiao sealed his entrance in the top 100 following his 3 "undecided" fights with Pacman

[SaadOffTheDeck]

What? Earlier he wasn't in your top 5 or your top 100.

[elmersalsa]

So for me these are the best ever from Mexico:
1
1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Salvador Sanchez
3. Ruben Olivares
4. Carlos Zarate
5. Miguel Canto
6. Juan Manuel Marquez
7. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
8. Marco Antonio Barrera
9. Vicente Saldivar
10. Erik Morales or Baby Arizmendi

From 1 to 3, are top 50.
The ones from 4 to 9, are top 100.
The 10th slot, a borderline entry in the top 100.

[elmersalsa]

What? Earlier he wasn't in your top 5 or your top 100.

After watching his spectacular KO over: Pacman after 3 argumental fights, it sealed his entry. I never did like Marquez and I never thought of him as a great fighter, but I got to give where CREDIT is DUE. He deserves to be in the top 100. At position number 77 to be exact. Who in this forum would rank him higher?
And at what weight class should he be included in the top 20?:

[Borinken25]

My top 10 Mexicans

1. Ruben Olivares
2. Salvador Sanchez
3. Julio C. Chavez
4. Baby Arizmendi
5. Vicente Saldivar
6. Carlos Zarate
7. Miguel Canto
8. Erik Morales
9. Marco Antonio Barrera
10. Juan Manuel Marquez

[gilgamesh]

What? Earlier he wasn't in your top 5 or your top 100.

After watching his spectacular KO over: Pacman after 3 argumental fights, it sealed his entry. I never did like Marquez and I never thought of him as a great fighter, but I got to give where CREDIT is DUE. He deserves to be in the top 100. At position number 77 to be exact. Who in this forum would rank him higher?
And at what weight class should he be included in the top 20?:

I don't know if he's necessary Top 20 in any one weight class he competed in because he competed in weight classes that are very deep historically. I figure you could probably call him a Top 20 Jr. Lightweight without much disagreement, but there are a ton of Legendary Lightweights and Welterweights so I can't see him breaking the Top 20 there.

His whole body of work eclipses anything he did in any one particular weight class.

It's between Featherweight and Lightweight what you'd consider to be his most accomplished division I'd say.

Best wins at Featherweight: Robbie Peden, Manuel Medina, Derrick Gainer (dull ass fight, but a good win) and Orlando Salido.

Best wins at Lightweight: Joel Casamayor, Juan Diaz 2x, Michael Katsidis...well hell I guess those are all of his fights there, but still good wins all.

I believe it was Jr. Lightweight where he beat Barrera. He also beat the title shot machine Rocky Juarez there.

Officially he's 1-1 with Pacquiao at Welterweight, but IMO he's 2-0 over Pacquiao at Welterweight, but that's the only guy he's beaten there. He lost in one sided fashion to Floyd and pretty decisively against Bradley as well.

I suppose you could make an argument that he's a Top 20 Featherweight, but I don't know.