Do you Need to have Boxed to be a Fan?

[Final round]

of course not...
Fan=fanatic
Most decent fans can see a fighter failings and strengths and anyone is free to have an opinion.
Can you become a trainer without boxing is a better question . I'd say generally no but some have done well.

[Matt W]

Angelo Dundee never boxed, he didn't do too badly in the sport.

You don't need to have been a horse to be a jockey...

[TheWigwam]

To be a fan - not at all!

However I have sparred a few rounds down at my local amateur club and it does open your eyes a bit to how tough the sport is, perhaps it just adds a little empathy towards the fighters (which might be a hole in your knowledge) and adds some weight as Curtis says, when you have had the same experiences as those you are watching on the tele. :)

sorry if this has already been said, I read most of the previous posts but not all

[danamba7]

I've never boxed, but love the sport and follow it as much as possible. I have had an old school heavy bag in my loft since I was a toddler which is used almost daily. I do love throwing combinations without the risk of the bag hitting me back

It is also fair to say those who have boxed, especially at a decent level, have more credible opinions. I honestly wish I had got into it but feel too old to be a beginner now!

[gazza8]

In the same way you need to have driven an F1 car to be a formula 1 fan

Pointless thread tbh

[thepocketrocket]

In the same way you need to have driven an F1 car to be a formula 1 fan

Pointless thread tbh

Thanks for your worthless opinion.

This is about the people who have boxed, and think that people who haven't are clueless, making debate difficult. It is a common line that is used to non-boxing fans.......

[jonp]

Angelo Dundee never boxed, he didn't do too badly in the sport.

You don't need to have been a horse to be a jockey...

But he wasnt just a fan either i think if any person spends all day in a gym around championship fighters and works in a sport they will have a huge amount of knowledge and experiance they will certainly not be classed as a fan.

If angelo or eddie futch or ray arcel was on these boards and a fan was telling him he was wrong or that the fans opinion carried more weight than theres i think most people would laugh them off the board, but when an experianced boxer trys to tell a person whos never actualy experianced what they have, just watched it live or on TV that they may not be able to judge a situation as them the Fans get very annoyed and feel slighted by the boxer.

I love debating with boxers,fans ,fellow managers and trainers but i realy think going through a training camp from start to finish,being in the middle of a fight or in the corner,working on a cut eye boxing with a cut eye,getting knocked out or scoring a knock out,walking to the ring with thousands of fans cheering or booing,preparing someone in the dressing room,seeing what goes on at press conferances and weigh ins,Negotiating contracts with promoters.
I just think anybody who goes through this over a number of years will carry an opinion that for me has more weight than even the most fanatical of fans who may have watched thousands of fights been to hundreds of shows but they still wont have this well of knowledge and experiance to draw upon in a debate.

[lefty]

Angelo Dundee never boxed, he didn't do too badly in the sport.

You don't need to have been a horse to be a jockey...

But he wasnt just a fan either i think if any person spends all day in a gym around championship fighters and works in a sport they will have a huge amount of knowledge and experiance they will certainly not be classed as a fan.

If angelo or eddie futch or ray arcel was on these boards and a fan was telling him he was wrong or that the fans opinion carried more weight than theres i think most people would laugh them off the board, but when an experianced boxer trys to tell a person whos never actualy experianced what they have, just watched it live or on TV that they may not be able to judge a situation as them the Fans get very annoyed and feel slighted by the boxer.

I love debating with boxers,fans ,fellow managers and trainers but i realy think going through a training camp from start to finish,being in the middle of a fight or in the corner,working on a cut eye boxing with a cut eye,getting knocked out or scoring a knock out,walking to the ring with thousands of fans cheering or booing,preparing someone in the dressing room,seeing what goes on at press conferances and weigh ins,Negotiating contracts with promoters.
I just think anybody who goes through this over a number of years will carry an opinion that for me has more weight than even the most fanatical of fans who may have watched thousands of fights been to hundreds of shows but they still wont have this well of knowledge and experiance to draw upon in a debate.

Must people dont get that opportunity though to be fair.

[jonp]

In the same way you need to have driven an F1 car to be a formula 1 fan

Pointless thread tbh

Thanks for your worthless opinion.

This is about the people who have boxed, and think that people who haven't are clueless, making debate difficult. It is a common line that is used to non-boxing fans.......

I dont think any rational boxing person thinks a guy who hasnt boxed has an opinion that is worthless martin (you and i for example have had some cracking discusions about boxing.
I just think and rightly so that a boxer ,manager ,trainer or promoter has more knowledge and experiance to talk about than even a really well read or travelled fan.

[jonp]

Angelo Dundee never boxed, he didn't do too badly in the sport.

You don't need to have been a horse to be a jockey...

But he wasnt just a fan either i think if any person spends all day in a gym around championship fighters and works in a sport they will have a huge amount of knowledge and experiance they will certainly not be classed as a fan.

If angelo or eddie futch or ray arcel was on these boards and a fan was telling him he was wrong or that the fans opinion carried more weight than theres i think most people would laugh them off the board, but when an experianced boxer trys to tell a person whos never actualy experianced what they have, just watched it live or on TV that they may not be able to judge a situation as them the Fans get very annoyed and feel slighted by the boxer.

I love debating with boxers,fans ,fellow managers and trainers but i realy think going through a training camp from start to finish,being in the middle of a fight or in the corner,working on a cut eye boxing with a cut eye,getting knocked out or scoring a knock out,walking to the ring with thousands of fans cheering or booing,preparing someone in the dressing room,seeing what goes on at press conferances and weigh ins,Negotiating contracts with promoters.
I just think anybody who goes through this over a number of years will carry an opinion that for me has more weight than even the most fanatical of fans who may have watched thousands of fights been to hundreds of shows but they still wont have this well of knowledge and experiance to draw upon in a debate.

Must people dont get that opportunity though to be fair.

Very true but the guys that do for me will have more to talk and tell about the game than the majority that dont. I think sometimes fighters or boxing people will try to win a debate or arguement with the line you havnt boxed which is unfair as surely if being a boxer or coach gives you that extra bit of knowledge then it wouldnt be hard to show that in a debate with out having to refer to the line that you know more because you have done the sport.
That being said iv seen some people being very argumentative or just talking crap to be fair and can understand someone turning round and saying youv never done it im not listening to you.

[Anzi]

Angelo Dundee never boxed, he didn't do too badly in the sport.

You don't need to have been a horse to be a jockey...

But he wasnt just a fan either i think if any person spends all day in a gym around championship fighters and works in a sport they will have a huge amount of knowledge and experiance they will certainly not be classed as a fan.

If angelo or eddie futch or ray arcel was on these boards and a fan was telling him he was wrong or that the fans opinion carried more weight than theres i think most people would laugh them off the board, but when an experianced boxer trys to tell a person whos never actualy experianced what they have, just watched it live or on TV that they may not be able to judge a situation as them the Fans get very annoyed and feel slighted by the boxer.

I love debating with boxers,fans ,fellow managers and trainers but i realy think going through a training camp from start to finish,being in the middle of a fight or in the corner,working on a cut eye boxing with a cut eye,getting knocked out or scoring a knock out,walking to the ring with thousands of fans cheering or booing,preparing someone in the dressing room,seeing what goes on at press conferances and weigh ins,Negotiating contracts with promoters.
I just think anybody who goes through this over a number of years will carry an opinion that for me has more weight than even the most fanatical of fans who may have watched thousands of fights been to hundreds of shows but they still wont have this well of knowledge and experiance to draw upon in a debate.

To right, a lot of posters on here don't know much about the sport, they are like armchair football fans rubbishing the England football manager, some spend a lot of money for all the big fights and weigh ins, but none of them can hold a candle to the people who work in the boxing industry for knowledge, yet promoters, trainers, managers and boxers get slated on here, by people who don't understand what they go through.

[lefty]

Angelo Dundee never boxed, he didn't do too badly in the sport.

You don't need to have been a horse to be a jockey...

But he wasnt just a fan either i think if any person spends all day in a gym around championship fighters and works in a sport they will have a huge amount of knowledge and experiance they will certainly not be classed as a fan.

If angelo or eddie futch or ray arcel was on these boards and a fan was telling him he was wrong or that the fans opinion carried more weight than theres i think most people would laugh them off the board, but when an experianced boxer trys to tell a person whos never actualy experianced what they have, just watched it live or on TV that they may not be able to judge a situation as them the Fans get very annoyed and feel slighted by the boxer.

I love debating with boxers,fans ,fellow managers and trainers but i realy think going through a training camp from start to finish,being in the middle of a fight or in the corner,working on a cut eye boxing with a cut eye,getting knocked out or scoring a knock out,walking to the ring with thousands of fans cheering or booing,preparing someone in the dressing room,seeing what goes on at press conferances and weigh ins,Negotiating contracts with promoters.
I just think anybody who goes through this over a number of years will carry an opinion that for me has more weight than even the most fanatical of fans who may have watched thousands of fights been to hundreds of shows but they still wont have this well of knowledge and experiance to draw upon in a debate.

Must people dont get that opportunity though to be fair.

Very true but the guys that do for me will have more to talk and tell about the game than the majority that dont. I think sometimes fighters or boxing people will try to win a debate or arguement with the line you havnt boxed which is unfair as surely if being a boxer or coach gives you that extra bit of knowledge then it wouldnt be hard to show that in a debate with out having to refer to the line that you know more because you have done the sport.
That being said iv seen some people being very argumentative or just talking crap to be fair and can understand someone turning round and saying youv never done it im not listening to you.[/quote]

I agree with your sentiment ... would you also admit though that there's some ex boxers, etc that sound totally clueless when it comes to reading fights though? Lol.

[Anzi]

To be a fan of course not to have an opinion of course not to have an opinion where you can back it up with some first hand experiance it helps.

If we were on here debating how hard it is to drag yrself out for the last round in a tough fight or to get up of the floor and come back to win,to walk out in front of a huge crowd and control your nerves then i would listen to every body talking but i am going to give more weight to the people on here who have actualy done it.

If we were chatting about how to treat a cut and mick williamson joined in the conversation i think it would be lunacy to say that a man in the streets point held as much weight as micks.

Saying that i know boxers who are very shallow on the background of boxing and even tactics they just know how to fight cant explain how they do it.

Another example is Andrew hartley and Charly zellonoff have both boxed but i would take the experiance and knowledge of 90 percent of posters on here over them.

When i hear fans and intersted parties sayig what a fighter should have done in a certain situation i find it amusig sometimes.it would be like me telling a marathon runner to pick up the pac in the last three miles I havnt done a marathon I couldnt do a marathon and i would feel daft trying to tell a bonofide runner what hed done wrong from veiwing a race i thought he could have done better in.

I agree with that. Certain things for sure only a boxer who's been involved in them can fully understand.

Sometimes yes, but Promoters, managers and trainers have more knowledge then the boxers usually, boxers can live quite solitary life and spend a lot of time looking after themselves, until they get on the big stage.

[jonp]

But he wasnt just a fan either i think if any person spends all day in a gym around championship fighters and works in a sport they will have a huge amount of knowledge and experiance they will certainly not be classed as a fan.

If angelo or eddie futch or ray arcel was on these boards and a fan was telling him he was wrong or that the fans opinion carried more weight than theres i think most people would laugh them off the board, but when an experianced boxer trys to tell a person whos never actualy experianced what they have, just watched it live or on TV that they may not be able to judge a situation as them the Fans get very annoyed and feel slighted by the boxer.

I love debating with boxers,fans ,fellow managers and trainers but i realy think going through a training camp from start to finish,being in the middle of a fight or in the corner,working on a cut eye boxing with a cut eye,getting knocked out or scoring a knock out,walking to the ring with thousands of fans cheering or booing,preparing someone in the dressing room,seeing what goes on at press conferances and weigh ins,Negotiating contracts with promoters.
I just think anybody who goes through this over a number of years will carry an opinion that for me has more weight than even the most fanatical of fans who may have watched thousands of fights been to hundreds of shows but they still wont have this well of knowledge and experiance to draw upon in a debate.[/quote]
Must people dont get that opportunity though to be fair.[/quote]

Very true but the guys that do for me will have more to talk and tell about the game than the majority that dont. I think sometimes fighters or boxing people will try to win a debate or arguement with the line you havnt boxed which is unfair as surely if being a boxer or coach gives you that extra bit of knowledge then it wouldnt be hard to show that in a debate with out having to refer to the line that you know more because you have done the sport.
That being said iv seen some people being very argumentative or just talking crap to be fair and can understand someone turning round and saying youv never done it im not listening to you.[/quote]

I agree with your sentiment ... would you also admit though that there's some ex boxers, etc that sound totally clueless when it comes to reading fights though? Lol.[/quote]

I know for a stone cold fact that theres fighters out there who know nothing of the current scene or the history of boxingwho will describe someone they had a real good fight as " you know the one with the blue shorts strong cant remember his name" they seriously are not interested in who theyv fought or what theyv done.But TBF they are not the types who usualy end up debating on here lol

[thepocketrocket]

In the same way you need to have driven an F1 car to be a formula 1 fan

Pointless thread tbh

Thanks for your worthless opinion.

This is about the people who have boxed, and think that people who haven't are clueless, making debate difficult. It is a common line that is used to non-boxing fans.......

I dont think any rational boxing person thinks a guy who hasnt boxed has an opinion that is worthless martin (you and i for example have had some cracking discusions about boxing.
I just think and rightly so that a boxer ,manager ,trainer or promoter has more knowledge and experiance to talk about than even a really well read or travelled fan.

Yeah, i don't fall out with that at all...A lot will depend on what is being discussed. Let's get technical and the pro will understand more.

Love our discussions BTW!!

[jonp]

on the other glove tho

A dedicated fan will have much more to talk about on what makes an exciting fight and what is betterto watch.A lot of boxer watch boxing in a detached way because they are looking for flaws or ways to beat a style or tactic.Where as a fan is watching a fight from an entirely differnt viewpoint.

If im talking tactics i want to discuss a fight with a boxer or trainer if im talking on how to promote a lad or get him selling more tickets and building up a fanbase then i need to be sitting in a pub or in the crowd at a show and see what the fans are watching and what they are seeing.

[expe]

Jamie McDonnell was world champion and I'm pretty sure we all know more than he does, he had to be told who Sugar Ray Leonard is. He's obviously able to follow a game plan, but I don't know whether he would be able to explain what he does in the ring, or if it's just instinct and comes naturally.

[Counter-puncher]

Jamie McDonnell was world champion and I'm pretty sure we all know more than he does, he had to be told who Sugar Ray Leonard is. He's obviously able to follow a game plan, but I don't know whether he would be able to explain what he does in the ring, or if it's just instinct and comes naturally.

FWIW i get the impression that he's a very well-coached fighter who believes in his corner's advice and his preparation and carries it out, i don't think his style is just intuitive.

[johnswan1]

I have never boxed, but it doesn't take away from my ability to enjoy a fight or appreciate a fighter.

I would have no interest in boxing myself, nor would I suggest it as a good sport to get into for my child.

Basically, we are not really made to take punches to the head and have our brains bounced around inside our skulls.

My job is office based, so that means I rely on my brain to function at it's best in order to give myself the best chance of reaching my potential in my chosen field and make the best living I can out of it. Boxing at any level would unnecessarily jeopardise that.

It may sound hypocritical for me to be against boxing for myself or my family, but to still consider myself a big fan. I have a lot of respect for boxers, the risks they take, and what they have to go through.

But to choose not to have my brain bounced around in my skull with or without headgear doesn't really limit my enjoyment of a fight.

Sure, I may never experience what it's like to defend yourself through exhaustion, to make weight, overcome nerves, put your life on the line etc. If anything I'd say getting punched in the face or knocked out would make me more likely not to want to watch or support boxing.

But as a fan I am choosing to enjoy the spectacle of a boxing match from the comfort of my home (or seat in the venue) and if somebody feels that raises the issue of me being a real fan or not, then that's for them to deal with not me.

A fan can still study different fighters styles, make comparisons between fighters, assess tactics, give opinions based on what they have seen and learned. They don't need to be getting their head punched in themselves to validate their opinion.

[stevieb_8006]

It's like saying you have to play an instrument to enjoy music.

It's the same discussion though fella. No one is saying that we don't enjoy boxing having never laced up, the same with the music. I bet you like a guitar solo like the rest of us but wouldn't think for a moment how tricky the chord changes were? Just a different mindset when you've done something that's all. A typical Muso would see someone playing and think ' Damn he was only playing C,D and E all song and badly at that. Whilst us mere music mortals would be saying damn that guitar player was brilliant

yes but the actually question specified "to be a fan". not have good insight. why must u b able to read a fight well to enjoy it?

don't confuse insight with appreciation/enjoyment

[stevieb_8006]

if you have been in there and done it surly your opinion carries a bit more weight? without sounding overly arrogant ive won fights, lost fights, been knocked down, been cut, had to deal with making weight and had to deal with nerves, surly i know better than somebody who has just seen all these things on the tele? i know that sounds arrogant but that's my thoughts on it

but again that's insight, not appreciation Curtis. can u not just appreciate something without knowing the ins and outs of it? can a fan not just watch and enjoy without the need to be brian hughes? for example, my old nan was a fan of british wrestling, but she wouldn't step between the ropes with big daddy.

questions. did u not consider yourself a fan before you started boxing?

if some1 who hasn't boxed comes up to u after u have fought and says "that was really great Curtis, well done I appreciate the effort, really enjoyed that...." would you think to yourself "hes not really a fan.." (please don't find where I live mate)

[Manchester Massive]

if you have been in there and done it surly your opinion carries a bit more weight? without sounding overly arrogant ive won fights, lost fights, been knocked down, been cut, had to deal with making weight and had to deal with nerves, surly i know better than somebody who has just seen all these things on the tele? i know that sounds arrogant but that's my thoughts on it

but again that's insight, not appreciation Curtis. can u not just appreciate something without knowing the ins and outs of it? can a fan not just watch and enjoy without the need to be brian hughes? for example, my old nan was a fan of british wrestling, but she wouldn't step between the ropes with big daddy.

I can remember watching Hagler v Hearns and loving it as a fan without having boxed. Now I've had a handful of fights I can appreciate certain things I'd have missed but the enjoyment stays the same when watching boxing.

[stevieb_8006]

if you have been in there and done it surly your opinion carries a bit more weight? without sounding overly arrogant ive won fights, lost fights, been knocked down, been cut, had to deal with making weight and had to deal with nerves, surly i know better than somebody who has just seen all these things on the tele? i know that sounds arrogant but that's my thoughts on it

but again that's insight, not appreciation Curtis. can u not just appreciate something without knowing the ins and outs of it? can a fan not just watch and enjoy without the need to be brian hughes? for example, my old nan was a fan of british wrestling, but she wouldn't step between the ropes with big daddy.

I can remember watching Hagler v Hearns and loving it as a fan without having boxed. Now I've had a handful of fights I can appreciate certain things I'd have missed but the enjoyment stays the same when watching boxing.

exactly. its like saying out of the 18000 that went to see froch vs Kessler only the people that have boxed were fans. if that's the case, boing will obv die out soon.

[Ezzard]

I always remember Alan Minter on Grandstand or World Of Sport being interviewed about Tommy Hearns. Hearns had just sparked out Geraldo who had gone the distance with Hagler. Hagler-Hearns was being discussed (Tommy would get an injury and the fight would not happen for a few more years).

Minter was trying to make the interviewer understand that Hagler was a natural Middleweight and this would be a critical factor in the fight.

I wasn’t very old at the time but it left an impression on me. Minter seemed frustrated that the interviewer couldn’t grasp his point.


It does always feel like a wasted opportunity when people from inside the game get flak on the internet. I guess people my age realise how lucky we are to get access to the fighters, trainers, managers, journos, etc…


I’ve never boxed. I trained. And I sparred mates many, many years ago (and even then it at the most 3 or 4 times). But that was it.

If I like a boxer I find reasons to say he’s great. If I don’t like him I find reasons to say why he’s overrated. But it’s just me breathing in and out…

[Ezzard]

How do people feel about their jobs when others, who pretend to be experts, but with no experience, make comments?

I don’t like it.

If I go on the ‘off topic’ forum and someone is spouting nonsense about my profession it does niggle…