Some context to Groves' knockout of Smith

[SamWise72]

Here's Froch, at a similar stage of his career, executing another otherwise durable domestic operator. Three one punch knockdowns. Lest we forget, he was considered a very concussive hitter at that point - I think this demonstrates that he hits just as hard as Groves at that level. Now, who do you think has the better chin?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5t41hr83w

[danconnollyeire]

Groves does hit like a mule. But in context, Groves hits 10-20% harder than Froch. Froch's chin is 100% better than Groves'

[lefty]

Here's Froch, at a similar stage of his career, executing another otherwise durable domestic operator. Three one punch knockdowns. Lest we forget, he was considered a very concussive hitter at that point - I think this demonstrates that he hits just as hard as Groves at that level. Now, who do you think has the better chin?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu5t41hr83w

To put into context Groves's punching power, I'd also show you a quick video of Bute in action to show that Froch has been in with big hitters before http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv66ifzOxn0

[lefty]

Smith is better than Hague. Groves would have stopped Hague in 2.

Froch also knocked Brian Magee outcold aswell.

[keithmoonhangover]

Groves does hit like a mule. But in context, Groves hits 10-20% harder than Froch. Froch's chin is 100% better than Groves'

Not sure about that dan. Froch has fought a lot of genuine world class operators, who naturally are harder to KO.

[SamWise72]

Smith is better than Hague. Groves would have stopped Hague in 2.

Ok, but Froch stopped him in 1. People are talking as though Groves is the second coming of Julian Jackson, and Froch is a featherfisted china chin. Froch was just as dangerous as Groves, when he was fighting that level of fighter, but he's also taken the bombs of some far better fighters with nary a wobble, where as Groves was on queer street against Smith (I reckon Smith would have put him down and maybe stopped him given another 30 seconds of round 1), and down against Anderson. This may not indicate the limit of his ability; plenty of fighters have little wobbles like that, but there's a lot more reason to doubt that Groves chin will hold up against Froch than the other way round.

[lefty]

Groves does hit like a mule. But in context, Groves hits 10-20% harder than Froch. Froch's chin is 100% better than Groves'

Not sure about that dan. Froch has fought a lot of genuine world class operators, who naturally are harder to KO.

I agree. Guys at the top level tend to take a shot better aswell. That's partly why they're at the top level.

[danconnollyeire]

Groves does hit like a mule. But in context, Groves hits 10-20% harder than Froch. Froch's chin is 100% better than Groves'

Not sure about that dan. Froch has fought a lot of genuine world class operators, who naturally are harder to KO.

Of course, they both carry power, a lot of it, which is why I said only 10%. I like Groves' snap and think his single punch power is marginally better. Saying that, it won't win him the fight tomorrow

[keithmoonhangover]

Saying that, it won't win him the fight tomorrow

Yep.

[lefty]

Smith is better than Hague. Groves would have stopped Hague in 2.

Froch also knocked Brian Magee outcold aswell.

Reid bounced Magee off the floor all night. Magee not too sturdy.

He isnt but then Degale stopped Smith aswell.

[palooka]

Groves does hit like a mule. But in context, Groves hits 10-20% harder than Froch. Froch's chin is 100% better than Groves'

That means it's twice as 'granite'; Groves will have to hit it twice then.

[mickey1975]

Groves does hit like a mule. But in context, Groves hits 10-20% harder than Froch. Froch's chin is 100% better than Groves'

That means it's twice as 'granite'; Groves will have to hit it twice then.

He's going to. In the first round. With right hands.

[keithmoonhangover]

Groves does hit like a mule. But in context, Groves hits 10-20% harder than Froch. Froch's chin is 100% better than Groves'

That means it's twice as 'granite'; Groves will have to hit it twice then.

He's going to. In the first round. With right hands.

That's right. He's only going to throw two right hands, no more, no less and both of them are going to land.

[palooka]

There used to be a time when it was seen as a good thing that a boxer had been hit and hurt, maybe even dropped; to see how they react before they got a title shot. Hatton was dropped by Maggee and hurt by Phillips and was written off before the Kostya bout; Nigel Benn had been knocked out with a jab and went on to win titles against massive hitters; Duke McKenzie had been stopped in the first by a body shot and went on to win further world titles. It used to be called a gut check and was seen as a part of the sport that was next to inevitable and even desirable.

[lefty]

There used to be a time when it was seen as a good thing that a boxer had been hit and hurt, maybe even dropped; to see how they react before they got a title shot. Hatton was dropped by Maggee and hurt by Phillips and was written off before the Kostya bout; Nigel Benn had been knocked out with a jab and went on to win titles against massive hitters; Duke McKenzie had been stopped in the first by a body shot and went on to win further world titles. It used to be called a gut check and was seen as a part of the sport that was next to inevitable and even desirable.

Bute had questionable punch resistance going into the Froch fight aswell though and we saw what happened there.

[SamWise72]

There used to be a time when it was seen as a good thing that a boxer had been hit and hurt, maybe even dropped; to see how they react before they got a title shot. Hatton was dropped by Maggee and hurt by Phillips and was written off before the Kostya bout; Nigel Benn had been knocked out with a jab and went on to win titles against massive hitters; Duke McKenzie had been stopped in the first by a body shot and went on to win further world titles. It used to be called a gut check and was seen as a part of the sport that was next to inevitable and even desirable.

That's why I said elsewhere that those wobbles don't mean Groves won't make it. I really don't intend to run Groves down, I think he's talented and has a bright future, but we're assessing a real actual fight that's about to happen, and people are saying that Groves's power is going to be the difference. I don't think his power is significantly, if at all, greater than Froch's, and whilst yes, a gut check is a good thing, look at the gut checks Froch has had. I don't say all of this to denigrate Groves, but to support my view that Froch is comfortably the better fighter, and will win.

[palooka]

There used to be a time when it was seen as a good thing that a boxer had been hit and hurt, maybe even dropped; to see how they react before they got a title shot. Hatton was dropped by Maggee and hurt by Phillips and was written off before the Kostya bout; Nigel Benn had been knocked out with a jab and went on to win titles against massive hitters; Duke McKenzie had been stopped in the first by a body shot and went on to win further world titles. It used to be called a gut check and was seen as a part of the sport that was next to inevitable and even desirable.

Bute had questionable punch resistance going into the Froch fight aswell though and we saw what happened there.

I think you've missed the point a little bit there pal.

[lefty]

There used to be a time when it was seen as a good thing that a boxer had been hit and hurt, maybe even dropped; to see how they react before they got a title shot. Hatton was dropped by Maggee and hurt by Phillips and was written off before the Kostya bout; Nigel Benn had been knocked out with a jab and went on to win titles against massive hitters; Duke McKenzie had been stopped in the first by a body shot and went on to win further world titles. It used to be called a gut check and was seen as a part of the sport that was next to inevitable and even desirable.

Bute had questionable punch resistance going into the Froch fight aswell though and we saw what happened there.

I think you've missed the point a little bit there pal.

Not really. You were saying that it's basically a good thing to happen to a fighter before he gets his shot.

[SamWise72]

To be fair, what happened to Bute against Andrade was rather more than a gut check. Benn got stopped by a jab not because he was chinny, but because he gassed, believing he could knock anyone out without really boxing.

Groves recovery against Anderson is a good sign; it's hard to make much out of the Smith situation because the round ended straight away. Bute essentially got stretched, and got a very long count. So yes, ok, I'm happy Groves has had a gut check, but I still think that when you're assessing who might knock who out, I'll bet on the guy who faced Kessler, Abraham, Pascal and Taylor and won, rather than the guy who was wobbling against Paul Smith.

[lefty]

To be fair, what happened to Bute against Andrade was rather more than a gut check. Benn got stopped by a jab not because he was chinny, but because he gassed, believing he could knock anyone out without really boxing.

Groves recovery against Anderson is a good sign; it's hard to make much out of the Smith situation because the round ended straight away. Bute essentially got stretched, and got a very long count. So yes, ok, I'm happy Groves has had a gut check, but I still think that when you're assessing who might knock who out, I'll bet on the guy who faced Kessler, Abraham, Pascal and Taylor and won, rather than the guy who was wobbling against Paul Smith.

I think Bute was more exhausted than hurt myself. I watched it back the other day for the first time. He was hurt but he was absolutely knackered! I'm not sure how many 12 rounders he'd done going into that fight. Not just that but against a guy who doesnt stop coming.

[palooka]

It wasn't seen as the end of the world that a boxer had been caught and hurt; it matted more how they coped with that, some boxers are excellent and do not put a foot wrong and then in deep they go to pieces when they are caught or cut. Many seem to be thinking that because Groves got dropped by Froch and by Anderson he is a very fragile boxer. Anderson would drop just about anyone he hits and Groves regrouped and stopped him. I think Groves is tough enough to get through and Froch has basically said that it is the end of his world if he loses to Groves - all his victories will mean nothing; that's a lot of self pressure.

[keithmoonhangover]

One thing I've noticed is how Groves naturally holds his head a little forward. I can see Carl landing the uppercut.

[lefty]

It wasn't seen as the end of the world that a boxer had been caught and hurt; it matted more how they coped with that, some boxers are excellent and do not put a foot wrong and then in deep they go to pieces when they are caught or cut. Many seem to be thinking that because Groves got dropped by Froch and by Anderson he is a very fragile boxer. Anderson would drop just about anyone he hits and Groves regrouped and stopped him. I think Groves is tough enough to get through and Froch has basically said that it is the end of his world if he loses to Groves - all his victories will mean nothing; that's a lot of self pressure.

Groves was stopped a fair few occasions as an amateur aswell though by all accounts.

[keithmoonhangover]

To me, the most important thing is this. Froch has proved (in sparring) that he can knock Groves over. That was just sparring and I'm pretty sure of two things. 1. Carl didn't hit George as hard as he can. 2. Groves will have been given time to recover.

If Carl lands on Saturday night with a harder shot than he did in sparring, then surely Groves is in big trouble.

[palooka]

[quote="keithmoonhangover"]One thing I've noticed is how Groves naturally holds his head a little forward. I can see Carl landing the uppercut.[/quote]

You mean that right uppercut he throws from way back?

(Who had Ward beaten when he made the move up? Who had Dirrell beaten before he moved up?)