Froch abuse pushing rematch further away

[Final round]

ward wouldn't have stopped him. ward is a pecking puncher and a jab and grabber. groves was punching with conviction, hitting through the target and punching properly (though being more open to a froch rally).

froch has been tired late in fights, but no wonder because his fights are so fierce. he has produced many strong rallies (taylor, Kessler 2, pascal) late in contests - something he was beginning to do vs groves...

the abrupt ending pretty much guarantees a rematch of this superb contest that can grow into a great british rivalry. as hearn said, fights are made by demand and there's a demand for froch-groves 2.

chavez jr's a nice cash in for everyone, but he's just not relevant enough.

Pecking puncher! Ward damn near pecked Edwin's head clean off and ruined Dawson[/quote]
he hugged the life out of dawson, first.

in most of ward's fights, he's thrown amateurish, pecking punches. virgil hill or sven ottke-style.[/quote]

I really think Ward's looked better since Froch mate, he's putting on a show and I wasn't a fan of his ugly hook and hold stuff. Regarding overreacting at Froch's comments I just feel he's taken the wrong tack, the cheeky up'n coming kid walked the walk and deserves some respect from the man who's done the lot. A bit of a arm around his shoulder, wow you surpised me well done mate etc would have gone down nicely all around but there is still bad blood that needs to be shed in the ring it seems!

[vargas]

I think Groves is in a win-win situation whether he gets the rematch or not. If he doesn't he'll more than likely be able to win a world title in 2014 anyway, and forever be known as the man that Froch avoided.

[keithmoonhangover]

Yeah, because being a multi millionaire with dozens and dozens of properties rented out just isn't secure enough

Are you ever gonna cut Froch some slack?

[lillywhite14]

I think Groves is in a win-win situation whether he gets the rematch or not. If he doesn't he'll more than likely be able to win a world title in 2014 anyway, and forever be known as the man that Froch avoided.

As much as I like George I'm still not fully sold. Not to the extent that I'm gonna bestow world titles on him. Just get the feeling he has plenty of boxes ticked but has one or two missing. Hope I'm wrong.

Will be fun watching him though that's for sure.

[lefty]

I think Groves is in a win-win situation whether he gets the rematch or not. If he doesn't he'll more than likely be able to win a world title in 2014 anyway, and forever be known as the man that Froch avoided.

As much as I like George I'm still not fully sold. Not to the extent that I'm gonna bestow world titles on him. Just get the feeling he has plenty of boxes ticked but has one or two missing. Hope I'm wrong.

Will be fun watching him though that's for sure.

I'm pretty sure he'd be a world champion if he'd fought Stiglietz or Bika! I'd bet my cardboard box on it!

[palooka]

Yeah, because being a multi millionaire with dozens and dozens of properties rented out just isn't secure enough

Are you ever gonna cut Froch some slack?

Yes but not on this; he is a very accomplished champion boxer who has beaten some very good boxers in a decisive manner; he is not the top man in the division and won't be; he was the recipient of a very favourable stoppage last week and is 36 years old. I'll cut him slack but will take in the edges Keith, I'll not run away with the cloth, have to say it as I see it.

Hope Groves, when he becomes a champion does the same as Froch - if he does he'll be some fighter and if he keeps his personality he'll be some champion.

[Spud]

Another point to people bleating how there must be a rematch ....

Degale v Groves was a very close fight where a lot of people argued here and there about how good but close the fight was!!

Did George Groves offer James Degale a rematch??

just asking ....

[palooka]

Another point to people bleating how there must be a rematch ....

Degale v Groves was a very close fight where a lot of people argued here and there about how good but close the fight was!!

Did George Groves offer James Degale a rematch??

just asking ....

It's been asked to death Spud and the feeling I got from the posts about that was that Groves v DeGale was a nip and tuck affair, no knockdowns, no real excitement, no controversial stoppage and no world title at stake.

[Spud]

Another point to people bleating how there must be a rematch ....

Degale v Groves was a very close fight where a lot of people argued here and there about how good but close the fight was!!

Did George Groves offer James Degale a rematch??

just asking ....

It's been asked to death Spud and the feeling I got from the posts about that was that Groves v DeGale was a nip and tuck affair, no knockdowns, no real excitement, no controversial stoppage and no world title at stake.

I fully understand that but Groves supporters cannot take the morale high ground here when their man has done the same as probably what Froch will do!!!

[palooka]

It doesn't really matter to anyone but Groves and Froch if they rematch; last week showed that even a fit and disciplined fighter such as Froch does not escape deterioration; Groves has years and years left in the sport and will surely (on that showing) do really well, he has an exciting style and an engaging personality.

Froch will do what he wants to do but there shouldn't be any doubt that if he chooses to box someone else for less money than he'd earn from a Groves rematch then it will look like he is avoiding a dangerman.

To be honest, Froch v Chavez Jnr would be a tear up, but what for? Chavez isn't an outstanding fighter and Ward would do it all again to Carl + he wouldn't come over here, Kessler 3 wouldn't work after last week.

[Spud]

It doesn't really matter to anyone but Groves and Froch if they rematch; last week showed that even a fit and disciplined fighter such as Froch does not escape deterioration; Groves has years and years left in the sport and will surely (on that showing) do really well, he has an exciting style and an engaging personality.

Froch will do what he wants to do but there shouldn't be any doubt that if he chooses to box someone else for less money than he'd earn from a Groves rematch then it will look like he is avoiding a dangerman.

To be honest, Froch v Chavez Jnr would be a tear up, but what for? Chavez isn't an outstanding fighter and Ward would do it all again to Carl + he wouldn't come over here, Kessler 3 wouldn't work after last week.

I agree with most of that.

[hurlock]

Groves is making himself to cute saying froch only has him to face or retire. He's trying to be like haye,who would create story's & cause media intrest but did it off the back of being the undisputed cruiser king & promised to emulate Holyfield in a division that lacked quality challengers. I don't think there's a lack of challengers at super middle & groves has come off a stoppage defeat.all the experts have said groves was hurt but should of been given a few more seconds,so it's getting less & less controversial.

[Spud]

Groves is making himself to cute saying froch only has him to face or retire. He's trying to be like haye,who would create story's & cause media intrest but did it off the back of being the undisputed cruiser king & promised to emulate Holyfield in a division that lacked quality challengers. I don't think there's a lack of challengers at super middle & groves has come off a stoppage defeat.all the experts have said groves was hurt but should of been given a few more seconds,so it's getting less & less controversial.

What a load of b*llocks!!!

[jamesmcdonnell]

I've now rewatched this several times, at first I thought the ref jumped in way too early, but with repeated watchings, I can totally see why he made the decision he did.

I also understand why groves feels hard done by, especially after dropping Froch in the first round, and bossing most of the first 6 rounds - but, his legs sagged badly after the third shot in the series that Carl landed, and he did look in trouble. Foster did what he felt was right, not even the biggest groves fan is surely going to suggest Foster is bent - he's one of the very best referees.

When Froch went down, he was getting up pretty much as soon as he dropped, and after a quick wobble on the ropes had clearly recovered, and in fact, he looked fine about 10 second later, even taking a couple more big shots.

After that, despite being stopped in his tracks by several big shots in the remainder of the fight, Froch never looked hurt, and his eyes were clear, Froch, as he usually does, seemed to be getting stronger, whilst Groves seemed to be slowing down, and the first serious assault from Froch, who hadn't really landed any really good flush head shots, had Groves looking disorganised, and disoriented. Now maybe he wasn't, but because he didn't go down, Foster had a duty of care to protect the fighter from punishment.

I cannot believe how quickly people have turned on Froch, after all the bravery he has shown in the ring, after all the hard fights he has had - how many soft touches has Carl had in his career, almost none.

I'd like to see a rematch to put it beyond doubt, and I do hope it happens, but if it doesn't and Carl moves on, I for one will easily forgive him.

Groves will come again, he's young, talented and proved he can hang at world Class, in many ways this result has probably done him a favour. Carl is one of the most ruthless finishers I've ever seen, we can never know for sure, but with so long left in the round, I think Froch would have flattened Groves. As it is, Groves now has a the moral victory, despite a genuine loss.

People need to cut Carl just a little bit of slack here, the guy has taken on all comers, and this and the Dirrell fight, are really the only controversial wins on his record.

[Spud]

I've now rewatched this several times, at first I thought the ref jumped in way too early, but with repeated watchings, I can totally see why he made the decision he did.

I also understand why groves feels hard done by, especially after dropping Froch in the first round, and bossing most of the first 6 rounds - but, his legs sagged badly after the third shot in the series that Carl landed, and he did look in trouble. Foster did what he felt was right, not even the biggest groves fan is surely going to suggest Foster is bent - he's one of the very best referees.

When Froch went down, he was getting up pretty much as soon as he dropped, and after a quick wobble on the ropes had clearly recovered, and in fact, he looked fine about 10 second later, even taking a couple more big shots.

After that, despite being stopped in his tracks by several big shots in the remainder of the fight, Froch never looked hurt, and his eyes were clear, Froch, as he usually does, seemed to be getting stronger, whilst Groves seemed to be slowing down, and the first serious assault from Froch, who hadn't really landed any really good flush head shots, had Groves looking disorganised, and disoriented. Now maybe he wasn't, but because he didn't go down, Foster had a duty of care to protect the fighter from punishment.

I cannot believe how quickly people have turned on Froch, after all the bravery he has shown in the ring, after all the hard fights he has had - how many soft touches has Carl had in his career, almost none.

I'd like to see a rematch to put it beyond doubt, and I do hope it happens, but if it doesn't and Carl moves on, I for one will easily forgive him.

Groves will come again, he's young, talented and proved he can hang at world Class, in many ways this result has probably done him a favour. Carl is one of the most ruthless finishers I've ever seen, we can never know for sure, but with so long left in the round, I think Froch would have flattened Groves. As it is, Groves now has a the moral victory, despite a genuine loss.

People need to cut Carl just a little bit of slack here, the guy has taken on all comers, and this and the Dirrell fight, are really the only controversial wins on his record.

At last someone writing some sense and not frightened of being in the minority.

Great post.

[keithmoonhangover]

I've now rewatched this several times, at first I thought the ref jumped in way too early, but with repeated watchings, I can totally see why he made the decision he did.

I also understand why groves feels hard done by, especially after dropping Froch in the first round, and bossing most of the first 6 rounds - but, his legs sagged badly after the third shot in the series that Carl landed, and he did look in trouble. Foster did what he felt was right, not even the biggest groves fan is surely going to suggest Foster is bent - he's one of the very best referees.

When Froch went down, he was getting up pretty much as soon as he dropped, and after a quick wobble on the ropes had clearly recovered, and in fact, he looked fine about 10 second later, even taking a couple more big shots.

After that, despite being stopped in his tracks by several big shots in the remainder of the fight, Froch never looked hurt, and his eyes were clear, Froch, as he usually does, seemed to be getting stronger, whilst Groves seemed to be slowing down, and the first serious assault from Froch, who hadn't really landed any really good flush head shots, had Groves looking disorganised, and disoriented. Now maybe he wasn't, but because he didn't go down, Foster had a duty of care to protect the fighter from punishment.

I cannot believe how quickly people have turned on Froch, after all the bravery he has shown in the ring, after all the hard fights he has had - how many soft touches has Carl had in his career, almost none.

I'd like to see a rematch to put it beyond doubt, and I do hope it happens, but if it doesn't and Carl moves on, I for one will easily forgive him.

Groves will come again, he's young, talented and proved he can hang at world Class, in many ways this result has probably done him a favour. Carl is one of the most ruthless finishers I've ever seen, we can never know for sure, but with so long left in the round, I think Froch would have flattened Groves. As it is, Groves now has a the moral victory, despite a genuine loss.

People need to cut Carl just a little bit of slack here, the guy has taken on all comers, and this and the Dirrell fight, are really the only controversial wins on his record.

Another great post mate.

I wonder.... At the exact split second the fight was stopped, badly hurt, hands down by his sides, turning away from his opponent, was Groves in a position to defend himself?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I've now rewatched this several times, at first I thought the ref jumped in way too early, but with repeated watchings, I can totally see why he made the decision he did.

I also understand why groves feels hard done by, especially after dropping Froch in the first round, and bossing most of the first 6 rounds - but, his legs sagged badly after the third shot in the series that Carl landed, and he did look in trouble. Foster did what he felt was right, not even the biggest groves fan is surely going to suggest Foster is bent - he's one of the very best referees.

When Froch went down, he was getting up pretty much as soon as he dropped, and after a quick wobble on the ropes had clearly recovered, and in fact, he looked fine about 10 second later, even taking a couple more big shots.

After that, despite being stopped in his tracks by several big shots in the remainder of the fight, Froch never looked hurt, and his eyes were clear, Froch, as he usually does, seemed to be getting stronger, whilst Groves seemed to be slowing down, and the first serious assault from Froch, who hadn't really landed any really good flush head shots, had Groves looking disorganised, and disoriented. Now maybe he wasn't, but because he didn't go down, Foster had a duty of care to protect the fighter from punishment.

I cannot believe how quickly people have turned on Froch, after all the bravery he has shown in the ring, after all the hard fights he has had - how many soft touches has Carl had in his career, almost none.

I'd like to see a rematch to put it beyond doubt, and I do hope it happens, but if it doesn't and Carl moves on, I for one will easily forgive him.

Groves will come again, he's young, talented and proved he can hang at world Class, in many ways this result has probably done him a favour. Carl is one of the most ruthless finishers I've ever seen, we can never know for sure, but with so long left in the round, I think Froch would have flattened Groves. As it is, Groves now has a the moral victory, despite a genuine loss.

People need to cut Carl just a little bit of slack here, the guy has taken on all comers, and this and the Dirrell fight, are really the only controversial wins on his record.

Another great post mate.

I wonder.... At the exact split second the fight was stopped, badly hurt, hands down by his sides, turning away from his opponent, was Groves in a position to defend himself?

Exactly, Groves was lurching across the ring, against a fighter who was all over him, and who was hurting him with each shot he hit him with. The referee doesn't have the benefits of a replay, he doesn't get a second chance at saving a fighter's career or life, he has to act quickly to prevent permanent damage. A fighter who has lost his senses and doesn't know which way he's facing, is going to get badly hurt by another big head shot.

Fighters, especially world class ones, are the last people to make the judgement call on when they've had enough, a referee has to protect a fighter from his own bravery sometimes - and make the judgement call, Foster made his call, and holding Froch accountable for that is madness.

[keithmoonhangover]

I've now rewatched this several times, at first I thought the ref jumped in way too early, but with repeated watchings, I can totally see why he made the decision he did.

I also understand why groves feels hard done by, especially after dropping Froch in the first round, and bossing most of the first 6 rounds - but, his legs sagged badly after the third shot in the series that Carl landed, and he did look in trouble. Foster did what he felt was right, not even the biggest groves fan is surely going to suggest Foster is bent - he's one of the very best referees.

When Froch went down, he was getting up pretty much as soon as he dropped, and after a quick wobble on the ropes had clearly recovered, and in fact, he looked fine about 10 second later, even taking a couple more big shots.

After that, despite being stopped in his tracks by several big shots in the remainder of the fight, Froch never looked hurt, and his eyes were clear, Froch, as he usually does, seemed to be getting stronger, whilst Groves seemed to be slowing down, and the first serious assault from Froch, who hadn't really landed any really good flush head shots, had Groves looking disorganised, and disoriented. Now maybe he wasn't, but because he didn't go down, Foster had a duty of care to protect the fighter from punishment.

I cannot believe how quickly people have turned on Froch, after all the bravery he has shown in the ring, after all the hard fights he has had - how many soft touches has Carl had in his career, almost none.

I'd like to see a rematch to put it beyond doubt, and I do hope it happens, but if it doesn't and Carl moves on, I for one will easily forgive him.

Groves will come again, he's young, talented and proved he can hang at world Class, in many ways this result has probably done him a favour. Carl is one of the most ruthless finishers I've ever seen, we can never know for sure, but with so long left in the round, I think Froch would have flattened Groves. As it is, Groves now has a the moral victory, despite a genuine loss.

People need to cut Carl just a little bit of slack here, the guy has taken on all comers, and this and the Dirrell fight, are really the only controversial wins on his record.

Another great post mate.

I wonder.... At the exact split second the fight was stopped, badly hurt, hands down by his sides, turning away from his opponent, was Groves in a position to defend himself?

Exactly, Groves was lurching across the ring, against a fighter who was all over him, and who was hurting him with each shot he hit him with. The referee doesn't have the benefits of a replay, he doesn't get a second chance at saving a fighter's career or life, he has to act quickly to prevent permanent damage. A fighter who has lost his senses and doesn't know which way he's facing, is going to get badly hurt by another big head shot.

Fighters, especially world class ones, are the last people to make the judgement call on when they've had enough, a referee has to protect a fighter from his own bravery sometimes - and make the judgement call, Foster made his call, and holding Froch accountable for that is madness.

[expe]

Looking at the replay when they're in the studio discussing the stoppage, they show numerous angles and the one from behind Groves shows that his right hand, the hand nearest to the referee, is right up by his chin, the left had dropped after blocking a shot from Froch and Groves was off balance, but he still had one hand up, like he always does. Before he got the chance to get his left hand back up to his chin, Foster put his whole bodyweight on him and he didn't sag or fall down.

[crusader]

I've now rewatched this several times, at first I thought the ref jumped in way too early, but with repeated watchings, I can totally see why he made the decision he did.

I also understand why groves feels hard done by, especially after dropping Froch in the first round, and bossing most of the first 6 rounds - but, his legs sagged badly after the third shot in the series that Carl landed, and he did look in trouble. Foster did what he felt was right, not even the biggest groves fan is surely going to suggest Foster is bent - he's one of the very best referees.

When Froch went down, he was getting up pretty much as soon as he dropped, and after a quick wobble on the ropes had clearly recovered, and in fact, he looked fine about 10 second later, even taking a couple more big shots.

After that, despite being stopped in his tracks by several big shots in the remainder of the fight, Froch never looked hurt, and his eyes were clear, Froch, as he usually does, seemed to be getting stronger, whilst Groves seemed to be slowing down, and the first serious assault from Froch, who hadn't really landed any really good flush head shots, had Groves looking disorganised, and disoriented. Now maybe he wasn't, but because he didn't go down, Foster had a duty of care to protect the fighter from punishment.

I cannot believe how quickly people have turned on Froch, after all the bravery he has shown in the ring, after all the hard fights he has had - how many soft touches has Carl had in his career, almost none.

I'd like to see a rematch to put it beyond doubt, and I do hope it happens, but if it doesn't and Carl moves on, I for one will easily forgive him.

Groves will come again, he's young, talented and proved he can hang at world Class, in many ways this result has probably done him a favour. Carl is one of the most ruthless finishers I've ever seen, we can never know for sure, but with so long left in the round, I think Froch would have flattened Groves. As it is, Groves now has a the moral victory, despite a genuine loss.

People need to cut Carl just a little bit of slack here, the guy has taken on all comers, and this and the Dirrell fight, are really the only controversial wins on his record.

Another great post mate.

I wonder.... At the exact split second the fight was stopped, badly hurt, hands down by his sides, turning away from his opponent, was Groves in a position to defend himself?

Exactly, Groves was lurching across the ring, against a fighter who was all over him, and who was hurting him with each shot he hit him with. The referee doesn't have the benefits of a replay, he doesn't get a second chance at saving a fighter's career or life, he has to act quickly to prevent permanent damage. A fighter who has lost his senses and doesn't know which way he's facing, is going to get badly hurt by another big head shot.

Fighters, especially world class ones, are the last people to make the judgement call on when they've had enough, a referee has to protect a fighter from his own bravery sometimes - and make the judgement call, Foster made his call, and holding Froch accountable for that is madness.

Groves is 'lurching' because Foster is on top of him. Immediately before that he threw a combination and pushed Froch away, then Foster oddly decides to step in

You even acknowledge that it was the first serious assault from Froch, and replays show it lasted about only 30 seconds, during which Groves was punching back and still defending himself (see him duck, hold, put his hands up). Froch was not landing at will and in fact I could only spot a few clean shots he landed during the final sequence. Groves (against Anderson) and many fighters have come back from being hurt worse, and I think he should've been given that opportunity. Say what you want about not having the benefit of viewing a replay, but I don't see why a replay was needed in this case.

[keithmoonhangover]

Looking at the replay when they're in the studio discussing the stoppage, they show numerous angles and the one from behind Groves shows that his right hand, the hand nearest to the referee, is right up by his chin, the left had dropped after blocking a shot from Froch and Groves was off balance, but he still had one hand up, like he always does. Before he got the chance to get his left hand back up to his chin, Foster put his whole bodyweight on him and he didn't sag or fall down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51bAmx89ciw

When he stops it, Grove's hands are down and turning away.

[crusader]

Looking at the replay when they're in the studio discussing the stoppage, they show numerous angles and the one from behind Groves shows that his right hand, the hand nearest to the referee, is right up by his chin, the left had dropped after blocking a shot from Froch and Groves was off balance, but he still had one hand up, like he always does. Before he got the chance to get his left hand back up to his chin, Foster put his whole bodyweight on him and he didn't sag or fall down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51bAmx89ciw

When he stops it, Grove's hands are down and turning away.

Groves' left hand is still up until 48 seconds--at which time Foster starts to jump in-- and Froch threw his last punch at 47 seconds. Groves was pushing Froch off him, which is why his hands came away from his head and partially why he turns a bit, while a slight push from Froch also seems to contribute to Groves turning slightly. At no point is Groves' back to Froch though, and he isn't even turned to the point where, assuming he clearly wasn't hurt, a ref would have to give him a warning or stop the action.

Suggestions that Groves wasn't making attempts to defend himself or that he turned his back in capitulation are untrue.

[keithmoonhangover]

assuming he clearly wasn't hurt

I think we are watching a different fight mate.

[crusader]

assuming he clearly wasn't hurt

I think we are watching a different fight mate.

You obviously didn't understand what I meant, and nice job cherry picking my post.

I meant that Groves hadn't turned away to an extent that is not permitted in boxing. If the bout just started and he turned his back completely even though nothing significant had occurred yet, the referee would intervene and tell him to turn around. Some people are acting as if Groves did this in the final moments, but he only turned slightly and was never in a position that would call for admonishment.

Since Groves was in trouble, maybe his very subtle turn could be considered (though it shouldn't have imo) a sign that the bout needed to be stopped, but Foster had already started to jump in anyway.

[BLASTER100]

The public were not asking for a Degale rematch. But they are asking for a Froch rematch.
That's the difference!