BoxBuzz wrote:Keith...he believes it....does not make him unintelligent.....just overly "open minded"...someone threw that thought into his "open mind"....and he has no way of casting it out once it found a home. lol.
I love this conversation.....and I like Il Duce's imagination....and that he is lost in his own mindcraft construct......And I, like Il Duce have too much time on my hands. lol.
So I offer up some more verbage.....for your consideration.
We all have strong "feelings" about things that happen.....it's sparked a cottage industry regarding the Kennedy Assassination (very similar..as the question was..how could THAT MAN do this thing to THAT MAN.......and then there are the folks who question were there really "men on the moon.
Something that has never happened before...and then "it happens". It's not comfortable, and we tend to question it and that's a good thing.
I'm going to point some information that is at least of interest about the KD/KO.
1. At first it was claimed by many that there was no punch. It never happened
2. Then many said they did indeed see a punch but it would likely calm a dog, and should be considered a "pat on the head".
3. That Sonny literally fell down without cause
4. Films proved otherwise...there was a punch, and the fall appeared to take place immediately after.
5. Still doubt.... some folks like me felt..Ok I see the punch but still that punch did not have the power to create this reaction. The juxtaposition of the fighters was too unusual to produce the outcome.
Now after viewing that film, I can report to you only this.
It simply COULD be exactly what it looks like, Liston got his bell very rung. And remained somewhat composed but still very disoriented. And the disorientation came in waves. Somewhat like a liver shot...but in balance not in pain.
And that is rather interesting. That it COULD be just what it looks like. Because for so long, and for so many people it just didn't "Feel" right. But it's all there, and it COULD be exactly what it is.
And for so so long, for so many people....this was not even a possibility. Largely due to how this makes us "feel".
Il Duce's narrative is a great book, it's got plenty of drama and "feeling" and intrigue built right in. And except for his wild channeling and apparent falsification of Liston's own words, even parts of that scenario COULD be true. However it is now more complicated due to the fact that there really IS proof and there is a high probability that this punch was debilitating.
The physics may be boring..although the inner ear stuff and closely tracking the body mechanics of the impact has Yancey thinking I'm a mystic who believes in wild alien life theories. So I suppose I have that going for my contributions.
Why can't it be that Liston got hit by a glazing blow to the head, got knocked down, could have got up, but chose not to so as to avoid a more sustained ass beating?
I've never gotten into the conversation of "after KD".
Other than express my opinion which is not all that different than yours.
I'm actually glad to see that for the most part....even those who buy into the more bizarre scenarios are coming to agreement that it all began with a legitimate knockdown.
And to knock Liston down.....well that's an achievement to be proud of all by itself.
What transpired after that....Who knows?
I do not pretend to have any knowledge whatsoever of what was "IN" Liston's noggin. Only Il Duce knows that. I do claim to have some expertise, and have tried to share it, with what happened "TO" Liston's noggin at point of impact...regarding an infamous punch that so many have claimed "NEVER HAPPENED".
Il Duce wrote:Fred Brooks, President of Sports Vision Inc.
"I had to laugh off the theory that a few Black Muslims came up here to visit Sonny Liston. Let me
tell you, Sonny Liston had better security guarding him than the Pope."
"Besides a close friend Bill 'Munsey' Munson, and a personal Security Guard the size of Mount Everest, Sonny also
had several FBI Agents by his side at all times, '20' State Troopers from Maine, and half the 'damn' Lewiston, Maine
Police Department guarding the perimeter areas."
"And the Insurance Company who under-wrote the $1,000,000 Life Insurance Policy on Sonny, had '3' of their
Top Security Specialists watching him 24-Hours-a-Day. It cost me $1000 for that Policy at a 1000-1 Rate
Pay-Out."
"If anybody thinks they got to Charles Liston before this fight, their sadly mistaken. Sonny made the decision
to 'dive' all by himself. You ask why, and I'll tell you it was 'spite'. He wanted to shove the whole thing down
the throats of everybody {The Boxing Business}. He has no interest in the Boxing game anymore. As a matter
of fact, he hasn't had interest in Boxing in a long time."
Imagine how little you'd post if you weren't allowed to copy and paste.
Just imagine where the 'The Who' would be, if they couldn't do 'Cover Songs' back from 1964 thru 1967.
Without 'Summertime Blues', they would be doing 'Pictures of Lilly' every single night...................
You're right mate, it'd be terrible to only have to play I Can't Explain, My Generation, Substitute, I Can See for Miles, Zoot Suit, I'm A Boy, Happy Jack and I'm The Face.
raylawpc wrote:I think Buzz is 1/2 right. I've always believed the knockDOWN was a genuine flash knockdown. But I think he could have gotten up again just about as quickly. Why Sonny chose to flop around on the canvas like a beached whale is something only Sonny knew and took to the grave with him.
This is my stance on it. Dr. Buzz did indeed convince that if nothing else, the knockdown itself was probably legit, but I still will never believe the impact of the shot was enough for Liston to do his whole "flopping around" act that you speak of.
The knockdown I believe is legit...that it was a hard enough shot to keep Liston on the canvas for the count of 10 is not.
Il Duce wrote:Fred Brooks, President of Sports Vision Inc.
"I had to laugh off the theory that a few Black Muslims came up here to visit Sonny Liston. Let me
tell you, Sonny Liston had better security guarding him than the Pope."
"Besides a close friend Bill 'Munsey' Munson, and a personal Security Guard the size of Mount Everest, Sonny also
had several FBI Agents by his side at all times, '20' State Troopers from Maine, and half the 'damn' Lewiston, Maine
Police Department guarding the perimeter areas."
"And the Insurance Company who under-wrote the $1,000,000 Life Insurance Policy on Sonny, had '3' of their
Top Security Specialists watching him 24-Hours-a-Day. It cost me $1000 for that Policy at a 1000-1 Rate
Pay-Out."
"If anybody thinks they got to Charles Liston before this fight, their sadly mistaken. Sonny made the decision
to 'dive' all by himself. You ask why, and I'll tell you it was 'spite'. He wanted to shove the whole thing down
the throats of everybody {The Boxing Business}. He has no interest in the Boxing game anymore. As a matter
of fact, he hasn't had interest in Boxing in a long time."
Imagine how little you'd post if you weren't allowed to copy and paste.
I think you're forgetting about all of the original work he also produces.
Are you aware, that Sonny Boy was 'banned' from participating in Professional Boxing in 48 of the 50 States
prior to the bout in Maine.
As well as all of Europe and the British-Commonwealth.
You do know that none of that was Ali's fault don't you?
I really don't think he does. As much as he hates him...somehow everything in his world revolves around Ali. If he gets a paycheck and it's 20 dollars short...Ali must've had something to do with it. If it was supposed to be a Sunny Day and it starts to Rain...f*cking Ali again f*cking his day up.
gilgamesh wrote:
I really don't think he does. As much as he hates him...somehow everything in his world revolves around Ali. If he gets a paycheck and it's 20 dollars short...Ali must've had something to do with it. If it was supposed to be a Sunny Day and it starts to Rain...f*cking Ali again f*cking his day up.
Sonny Liston and Muhammad Ali during their 'stage preparation' for the May 25, 1965 Bout.
Sonny and Muhammad worked out in a 'secret location', working on punching and slipping.
Here Sonny floors Muhammad with a right to the shoulder and left-hook to the jaw.
The 'script' called for Muhammad to go down in Round 4, and take a 7-Count.
What a load of bullsh1t.
As my youngest son says........... EPIC, EPIC FAIL!
Notice Liston's leg conveniently hides the face of the downed fighter so it's not easily identifiable.
Except for the fact that Duce is stupid enough to leave Sonny Liston vs Nino Valdes as the source of the image he posted
