Cassius Clay ~ "Girlie Pink Cadillac"

[ThatOne]

Il Duce....did you serve? Someone had asked.

Asked and answered...

He served five to ten for statutory rape...

His then fifteen year old victim is still shook.

[BoxBuzz]

...Hmm so you did serve
and you operated Helicopters?

[Woller]

Ali was certainly unpopular for not going to Vietnam for the Bizar War. (Who wanted it anyhow?)

A few years later he was a hero for not going.

Only in America.

Woller

[Giancarlo]

Ali was certainly unpopular for not going to Vietnam for the Bizar War. (Who wanted it anyhow?)

A few years later he was a hero for not going.

Only in America.

Woller

It's not unusual for a war to become unpopular among the population of the side that is losing.

As USA casualties reached 500 young men a week with no end in sight and no clear objective, even the biggest fool would start to question the rationale behind it all.

[gilgamesh]

Ali was certainly unpopular for not going to Vietnam for the Bizar War. (Who wanted it anyhow?)

A few years later he was a hero for not going.

Only in America.

Woller

It's not unusual for a war to become unpopular among the population of the side that is losing.

As USA casualties reached 500 young men a week with no end in sight and no clear objective, even the biggest fool would start to question the rationale behind it all.

America hasn't been involved in a War that should've been taking place since World War II. All the rest since then have been meaningless Death and Destruction for no reason, other than to fuel the reason and keep the money flowing in for the Military Industrial Complex.

It's gotten to the point now that the U.S. is almost always involved in a war and the American people don't even really give a sh*t.

They'll start another war probably no more than a year or two after they end the current one. The war's not meant to be won, it's meant to be constant.

Hell the wars we are in now, there is no way to even win them. Every day we stay in Iraq and Afghanistan is another day and another massive amount of dollars wasted on nothing.

[grevan]

These constant anti-Ali posts are a fascinating case study. Obviously driven by inherent racism and some sort of resentment of Ali's fame, you wonder where it will end. I mean, we've read of his struggles with Jean-Pierre Coopman and Rudi Lubbers lately - can only assume there's an Ali-Richard Dunn synopsis around the corner.

[knurak]

Just imagine how much better America would have been if Cassius Clay served with 'Honor'.

Instead of this,,,,,,,,

Just imagine how much better this forum would be if your threads were actually about boxing

Instead of this,,,,,,,,,

[HomicideHenry]

Alot of veterans, including my dad, hold a disdain for Ali like they do Jane Fonda.

I don't blame them, considering here was a man spouting off he was the 'People's Champion', but he obviously wasn't the champion of the hundreds of thousands who were shipped over to Vietnam.

Ali was the 'champion' of his own purposes, he didn't have to do anything military wise, but just show up, give speeches and do exhibitions--- if even that. Ironic, that is how he made money during his exile going to colleges and filming computer fights, etc.

He claimed he did it so he wouldn't be promoting the conflict in Vietnam, etc. but he surely didn't seem to have a problem with it at all when he was drafted to take tests for the service years before and was classified as 1-Y (ineligible for service due to low test scores) to which he famously said "I said I was the greatest, never said I was the smartest!"

And he sure as hell didn't mind giving out hundreds of tickets to servicemen in Germany when he fought Richard Dunne, etc.

Mind you, there were other champions who lied, weasled and flat out refused service--- probably the biggest coward was Jess Willard. But at the end of the day, this man by refusing to serve his country more or less stood on the grounds that he was a 'citizen of the planet' and a 'muslim', rather than as an American citizen. That is essentially what he done--- his disservice was a flat out refusal to be identified as an American. He was black, muslim, and the people's champion---- he never once said he was an American through it all, in fact, that is why the myth that he threw his gold medal into the Ohio river became apart of the legend, that even then he broke away from the identity of being an American because he was treated less than a citizen for being black (when the true story is none of it ever happened, he simply lost the medal).

[gilgamesh]

Alot of veterans, including my dad, hold a disdain for Ali like they do Jane Fonda.

I don't blame them, considering here was a man spouting off he was the 'People's Champion', but he obviously wasn't the champion of the hundreds of thousands who were shipped over to Vietnam.

Ali was the 'champion' of his own purposes, he didn't have to do anything military wise, but just show up, give speeches and do exhibitions--- if even that. Ironic, that is how he made money during his exile going to colleges and filming computer fights, etc.

He claimed he did it so he wouldn't be promoting the conflict in Vietnam, etc. but he surely didn't seem to have a problem with it at all when he was drafted to take tests for the service years before and was classified as 1-Y (ineligible for service due to low test scores) to which he famously said "I said I was the greatest, never said I was the smartest!"

And he sure as hell didn't mind giving out hundreds of tickets to servicemen in Germany when he fought Richard Dunne, etc.

Mind you, there were other champions who lied, weasled and flat out refused service--- probably the biggest coward was Jess Willard. But at the end of the day, this man by refusing to serve his country more or less stood on the grounds that he was a 'citizen of the planet' and a 'muslim', rather than as an American citizen. That is essentially what he done--- his disservice was a flat out refusal to be identified as an American. He was black, muslim, and the people's champion---- he never once said he was an American through it all, in fact, that is why the myth that he threw his gold medal into the Ohio river became apart of the legend, that even then he broke away from the identity of being an American because he was treated less than a citizen for being black (when the true story is none of it ever happened, he simply lost the medal).

I would identify myself as a citizen of the planet as well. Patriotism is just another tool to control the masses. It works, so they work it. I don't really see how being an American is anything to be proud of really.

I don't see how being a citizen of anywhere is anything to be proud of. It's just where you were born, it doesn't define you in any way. People just think it does. Gotta keep the Sheeple in line.

[BoxBuzz]

I am right of center in my politics. Truly. I find little to disagree with regarding Tea Party fundamentals. Especially their libertarian leanings of smaller government.

I don't buy into the religious right quite as much, but I accept them as my co-conspirators against the folks who want to grow my government to Mega proportions. I pray my government loses it's propensity to want to become our parents.

I also am much happier with the stance that Joe Frazier took during this time period. As I do revere my country greatly. And even when we veer off course, I tend to forgive my government. Because I believe it can heal itself, and evolve.

I am grateful that we have an all volunteer military. I don't want folks who don't believe in the mission to be serving. They could not serve well if they feel subjugated. IF we ever choose once again to draft, I would only be for it if there were NO waivers except for purely physical ones. An engineer named Rockefeller or Kennedy would have to serve. A man or woman in a wheelchair? Ok they get a pass.

I never want my government to be so powerful that it can punish at will, someone who has a different viewpoint. That sounds like the former Soviet Union, China, or Middle East way of thinking to me.

If the price we pay is that we have a few folks exploiting our good nature...so be it. They can stay in our borders as long as they do not take overt ACTION to hurt us as a nation.

If you love your government that much....you may find that you have slipped over to the left side. lol.

I am pro life.......when it's innocent life. I am pro choice when it comes to how we may choose to dispense justice to those who have truly transgressed.


Blah Blah Blah......that's my nickel outlook.

But I prefer to talk about boxing here.

[HomicideHenry]

Alot of veterans, including my dad, hold a disdain for Ali like they do Jane Fonda.

I don't blame them, considering here was a man spouting off he was the 'People's Champion', but he obviously wasn't the champion of the hundreds of thousands who were shipped over to Vietnam.

Ali was the 'champion' of his own purposes, he didn't have to do anything military wise, but just show up, give speeches and do exhibitions--- if even that. Ironic, that is how he made money during his exile going to colleges and filming computer fights, etc.

He claimed he did it so he wouldn't be promoting the conflict in Vietnam, etc. but he surely didn't seem to have a problem with it at all when he was drafted to take tests for the service years before and was classified as 1-Y (ineligible for service due to low test scores) to which he famously said "I said I was the greatest, never said I was the smartest!"

And he sure as hell didn't mind giving out hundreds of tickets to servicemen in Germany when he fought Richard Dunne, etc.

Mind you, there were other champions who lied, weasled and flat out refused service--- probably the biggest coward was Jess Willard. But at the end of the day, this man by refusing to serve his country more or less stood on the grounds that he was a 'citizen of the planet' and a 'muslim', rather than as an American citizen. That is essentially what he done--- his disservice was a flat out refusal to be identified as an American. He was black, muslim, and the people's champion---- he never once said he was an American through it all, in fact, that is why the myth that he threw his gold medal into the Ohio river became apart of the legend, that even then he broke away from the identity of being an American because he was treated less than a citizen for being black (when the true story is none of it ever happened, he simply lost the medal).

I would identify myself as a citizen of the planet as well. Patriotism is just another tool to control the masses. It works, so they work it. I don't really see how being an American is anything to be proud of really.

I don't see how being a citizen of anywhere is anything to be proud of. It's just where you were born, it doesn't define you in any way. People just think it does. Gotta keep the Sheeple in line.

To me, such thoughts and opinions, are those of children. Life isn't sunshine and rainbows, and people eventually have to grow up. Most the world hates us Americans, and it's our servicemen who keep us safe. It's also our military that (despite such hatred around the world) that tries to lend assistance and help to those who ask for it (Vietnam, Germany, Britain, etc).

Anyone who says they ain't proud of home, especially in national pride events like the Olympics, to me are people who knit pick about everything that is at fault, rather than what is good and taken for granted. I ain't saying every country wants to be like America--- cus we see that in the Middle East, those people don't want a democracy and why try to nation build, when you know damn well in a matter of weeks, months, years all the work would be destroyed anyways.

To me, sometimes myths and ideals are more important than history---- take Lincoln, as such. It is better that we tell our children about a man who died for the sake of people being free, because the truth is that is what needs to be said and told, because All Men Are Created Equal. If we told the real truth of Lincoln, how up until the week he died that he tried figuring out a way to send the slaves back to Africa or to "Lincolnia" (a colony in South America that he established) and that his 'Emmancipation Proclaimation' in truth was the Emmancipation of white people from blacks--- not the end all of slavery--- then we would have a nation that would not hold to what is true of life.

Alot of nations may have similar freedoms and governments to our own, but the cost of living is so high that they can never make it out of being one of the drones. From the moment of their birth to their death, they dont have the equal chance of ever breaking free from that mold. Here in America, anyone can become anything they want to be--- if only they work hard enough. Alot of places don't have even that, that no matter how hard you work, you still are taxed to death, rented to death, etc.

To me a citizen of the planet ideal is nothing more than the babbling of lazy hearts and people who dont want to stand for anything, but pick and chose what they wanna do and more times than not will continue to satisfy themselves rather than do what is necessary or required. Ali and many others did it so it wouldn't have effected his wallet, his religion, his life, etc. rather than stand up for a more noble cause--- for standing up for the ideal that ALL PEOPLE should be free.

[p4p1]

Alot of veterans, including my dad, hold a disdain for Ali like they do Jane Fonda.

I don't blame them, considering here was a man spouting off he was the 'People's Champion', but he obviously wasn't the champion of the hundreds of thousands who were shipped over to Vietnam.

Ali was the 'champion' of his own purposes, he didn't have to do anything military wise, but just show up, give speeches and do exhibitions--- if even that. Ironic, that is how he made money during his exile going to colleges and filming computer fights, etc.

He claimed he did it so he wouldn't be promoting the conflict in Vietnam, etc. but he surely didn't seem to have a problem with it at all when he was drafted to take tests for the service years before and was classified as 1-Y (ineligible for service due to low test scores) to which he famously said "I said I was the greatest, never said I was the smartest!"

And he sure as hell didn't mind giving out hundreds of tickets to servicemen in Germany when he fought Richard Dunne, etc.

Mind you, there were other champions who lied, weasled and flat out refused service--- probably the biggest coward was Jess Willard. But at the end of the day, this man by refusing to serve his country more or less stood on the grounds that he was a 'citizen of the planet' and a 'muslim', rather than as an American citizen. That is essentially what he done--- his disservice was a flat out refusal to be identified as an American. He was black, muslim, and the people's champion---- he never once said he was an American through it all, in fact, that is why the myth that he threw his gold medal into the Ohio river became apart of the legend, that even then he broke away from the identity of being an American because he was treated less than a citizen for being black (when the true story is none of it ever happened, he simply lost the medal).

I would identify myself as a citizen of the planet as well. Patriotism is just another tool to control the masses. It works, so they work it. I don't really see how being an American is anything to be proud of really.

I don't see how being a citizen of anywhere is anything to be proud of. It's just where you were born, it doesn't define you in any way. People just think it does. Gotta keep the Sheeple in line.

To me, such thoughts and opinions, are those of children. Life isn't sunshine and rainbows, and people eventually have to grow up. Most the world hates us Americans, and it's our servicemen who keep us safe. It's also our military that (despite such hatred around the world) that tries to lend assistance and help to those who ask for it (Vietnam, Germany, Britain, etc).

Anyone who says they ain't proud of home, especially in national pride events like the Olympics, to me are people who knit pick about everything that is at fault, rather than what is good and taken for granted. I ain't saying every country wants to be like America--- cus we see that in the Middle East, those people don't want a democracy and why try to nation build, when you know damn well in a matter of weeks, months, years all the work would be destroyed anyways.

To me, sometimes myths and ideals are more important than history---- take Lincoln, as such. It is better that we tell our children about a man who died for the sake of people being free, because the truth is that is what needs to be said and told, because All Men Are Created Equal. If we told the real truth of Lincoln, how up until the week he died that he tried figuring out a way to send the slaves back to Africa or to "Lincolnia" (a colony in South America that he established) and that his 'Emmancipation Proclaimation' in truth was the Emmancipation of white people from blacks--- not the end all of slavery--- then we would have a nation that would not hold to what is true of life.

Alot of nations may have similar freedoms and governments to our own, but the cost of living is so high that they can never make it out of being one of the drones. From the moment of their birth to their death, they dont have the equal chance of ever breaking free from that mold. Here in America, anyone can become anything they want to be--- if only they work hard enough. Alot of places don't have even that, that no matter how hard you work, you still are taxed to death, rented to death, etc.

To me a citizen of the planet ideal is nothing more than the babbling of lazy hearts and people who dont want to stand for anything, but pick and chose what they wanna do and more times than not will continue to satisfy themselves rather than do what is necessary or required. Ali and many others did it so it wouldn't have effected his wallet, his religion, his life, etc. rather than stand up for a more noble cause--- for standing up for the ideal that ALL PEOPLE should be free.

People from other countries generally don't like the American government because of its military and the constant wars since WW2. You have literally no idea what you're talking about when it comes to why America is not well liked by other nations. There are many countries that have better living standards, a better government, better wages and more opportunities for an average person than America, get your head out of your ass.

[Giancarlo]

Rufus, have you found a job yet?

[p4p1]

Just imagine how much better America would have been if Cassius Clay served with 'Honor'.

Instead of this,,,,,,,,

Just imagine how much better this forum would be if your threads were actually about boxing

Instead of this,,,,,,,,,

Hey Clown from another Town,

More members respond to my threads in one day, than all of yours put together.

Thats a fact Jack

Oh That's Right, your from Michigan.........

That because you post some pretty ridiculous threads that you know will get some people fired up.

[BoxBuzz]

Ahhh.. .it's the attention.

Well you've earned it......sort of the way a car crash earns the same.

[p4p1]

p4p1

My threads 'provoke' thought.

Would you rather have me post 'Fantasy Fights'.

Some of your threads provoke thoughts others are just a simple attack on an ATG fighter.

[HomicideHenry]

People from other countries generally don't like the American government because of its military and the constant wars since WW2. You have literally no idea what you're talking about when it comes to why America is not well liked by other nations. There are many countries that have better living standards, a better government, better wages and more opportunities for an average person than America, get your head out of your ass.

Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan/Iraq.... I dont seem to recall any other wars since 1945, unless you want to count little, tiny, skirmishes like Kuwait.

Really? Like Sweden and other Nordic countries where the rate of taxation is so high (over 80%)?

Like England, Scotland, Ireland, Spain, Greece, where the rate of debt and unemployment and welfare is higher per capita than almost any other nation on Earth? Where violent crime, domestic violence especially, is ten times higher per capita than here in America? Where racism is such, that the gypsies/travellers have the highest infany mortality rate, highest illiteracy rate, etc. which bellies our treatement of the Native American in the 1800's and prior?

Like China where men and women are living off $1 an hour in factories, and forced to have one child per household--- or like their neighbor Vietnam who will kill you if you own a Bible?---- where both nations say imagination/fantasy is against the law, because it doesnt help the work force? Where pollution is so thick in some cities people have to walk with umbrellas so the smog and dust and ash dont permanently ruin their clothes?

Like the many nations in Africa where the Muslims kill the Christians, burn down villages and rape and murder families in front of eachother's eyes? Where the poverty and hunger and disease is such, yet the politicians drive around in the most expensive cars and live in enormous mansions? Where they force men and women to work in the mines, and will cut their feet and hands off if they so much as pinch a diamond so small it cant be seen clearly without a magnifying glass?

With all these nations doing such things.... its no wonder we have to be the policemen of the world, or intervene in the madness, or continue to bail out countries or send military aid and equipment. Not to boast my country up, but before you go on slandering mine---- please take a look at your own.

[Giancarlo]

Crikey, Rufus, you need to take off that tin foil hat and get out and see the world.

[HomicideHenry]

Always wondered,

Why Cassius Clay stayed living in America, owning property in,
* Miami, Florida
* Louisville, Kentucky
* New York, New York
* Chicago, Illinois
* Cherry Hill, New Jersey
* Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
* Los Angeles, California
* Deer Creek, Pennsylvania

Sounds like he liked the place.

Cus the taxes weren't as high as in Great Britain, else he would be kissing the Queen's ass right now.

[p4p1]

People from other countries generally don't like the American government because of its military and the constant wars since WW2. You have literally no idea what you're talking about when it comes to why America is not well liked by other nations. There are many countries that have better living standards, a better government, better wages and more opportunities for an average person than America, get your head out of your ass.

Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan/Iraq.... I dont seem to recall any other wars since 1945, unless you want to count little, tiny, skirmishes like Kuwait.

Really? Like Sweden and other Nordic countries where the rate of taxation is so high (over 80%)?

Like England, Scotland, Ireland, Spain, Greece, where the rate of debt and unemployment and welfare is higher per capita than almost any other nation on Earth? Where violent crime, domestic violence especially, is ten times higher per capita than here in America? Where racism is such, that the gypsies/travellers have the highest infany mortality rate, highest illiteracy rate, etc. which bellies our treatement of the Native American in the 1800's and prior?

Like China where men and women are living off $1 an hour in factories, and forced to have one child per household--- or like their neighbor Vietnam who will kill you if you own a Bible?---- where both nations say imagination/fantasy is against the law, because it doesnt help the work force? Where pollution is so thick in some cities people have to walk with umbrellas so the smog and dust and ash dont permanently ruin their clothes?

Like the many nations in Africa where the Muslims kill the Christians, burn down villages and rape and murder families in front of eachother's eyes? Where the poverty and hunger and disease is such, yet the politicians drive around in the most expensive cars and live in enormous mansions? Where they force men and women to work in the mines, and will cut their feet and hands off if they so much as pinch a diamond so small it cant be seen clearly without a magnifying glass?

With all these nations doing such things.... its no wonder we have to be the policemen of the world, or intervene in the madness, or continue to bail out countries or send military aid and equipment. Not to boast my country up, but before you go on slandering mine---- please take a look at your own.

I am well aware of where my country stands maybe that's why your coming over here next year.

Tax rates of over 80% I know some people who live over there and they have never complained about tax rates that high. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_of_Europe

Having never been to China you clearly have no idea how far $1 goes there and just how cheap it is over there people need to stop comparing their wages to that of other countries because of cost of living, I have also I have known quite a few Chinese people many of whom are happy living in China. 1 Child per household because the previous generations have overpopulated their own country FFS. I agree about the smog though. Clearly I was not talking about Asia though which Ironically is a great place for many westerners to retire.

Really bringing up Travellers lack of literacy as a racism thing, Maybe just maybe it has something to do with the fact they pull their kids out of school at very young ages and the parents generally don't encourage their kids to do the work while they're at school. Not to mention Travellers get some pretty good kickbacks from the government, such as free healthcare among other things. Really bringing up Violent crime when the USA has a higher murder rate than all of the European countries you have listed, there is only 5 or so European countries with higher murder rates than the US most of them being in Eastern Europe.

Africa is fucked and I (like many others I am sure) do not seeing it being fixed anytime soon, poverty breeds crime and there also seems to be a constant supply of terrible dictators there. But why hasn't America gone and 'policed' Africa considering its problems are worse than Iraq or Afghanistan?

America doesn't have to 'police' the world nor does it have any right to, and that attitude is exactly what makes people dislike the Americans.

[p4p1]

edit.

[gilgamesh]

Alot of veterans, including my dad, hold a disdain for Ali like they do Jane Fonda.

I don't blame them, considering here was a man spouting off he was the 'People's Champion', but he obviously wasn't the champion of the hundreds of thousands who were shipped over to Vietnam.

Ali was the 'champion' of his own purposes, he didn't have to do anything military wise, but just show up, give speeches and do exhibitions--- if even that. Ironic, that is how he made money during his exile going to colleges and filming computer fights, etc.

He claimed he did it so he wouldn't be promoting the conflict in Vietnam, etc. but he surely didn't seem to have a problem with it at all when he was drafted to take tests for the service years before and was classified as 1-Y (ineligible for service due to low test scores) to which he famously said "I said I was the greatest, never said I was the smartest!"

And he sure as hell didn't mind giving out hundreds of tickets to servicemen in Germany when he fought Richard Dunne, etc.

Mind you, there were other champions who lied, weasled and flat out refused service--- probably the biggest coward was Jess Willard. But at the end of the day, this man by refusing to serve his country more or less stood on the grounds that he was a 'citizen of the planet' and a 'muslim', rather than as an American citizen. That is essentially what he done--- his disservice was a flat out refusal to be identified as an American. He was black, muslim, and the people's champion---- he never once said he was an American through it all, in fact, that is why the myth that he threw his gold medal into the Ohio river became apart of the legend, that even then he broke away from the identity of being an American because he was treated less than a citizen for being black (when the true story is none of it ever happened, he simply lost the medal).

I would identify myself as a citizen of the planet as well. Patriotism is just another tool to control the masses. It works, so they work it. I don't really see how being an American is anything to be proud of really.

I don't see how being a citizen of anywhere is anything to be proud of. It's just where you were born, it doesn't define you in any way. People just think it does. Gotta keep the Sheeple in line.

To me, such thoughts and opinions, are those of children. Life isn't sunshine and rainbows, and people eventually have to grow up. Most the world hates us Americans, and it's our servicemen who keep us safe. It's also our military that (despite such hatred around the world) that tries to lend assistance and help to those who ask for it (Vietnam, Germany, Britain, etc).

Anyone who says they ain't proud of home, especially in national pride events like the Olympics, to me are people who knit pick about everything that is at fault, rather than what is good and taken for granted. I ain't saying every country wants to be like America--- cus we see that in the Middle East, those people don't want a democracy and why try to nation build, when you know damn well in a matter of weeks, months, years all the work would be destroyed anyways.

To me, sometimes myths and ideals are more important than history---- take Lincoln, as such. It is better that we tell our children about a man who died for the sake of people being free, because the truth is that is what needs to be said and told, because All Men Are Created Equal. If we told the real truth of Lincoln, how up until the week he died that he tried figuring out a way to send the slaves back to Africa or to "Lincolnia" (a colony in South America that he established) and that his 'Emmancipation Proclaimation' in truth was the Emmancipation of white people from blacks--- not the end all of slavery--- then we would have a nation that would not hold to what is true of life.

Alot of nations may have similar freedoms and governments to our own, but the cost of living is so high that they can never make it out of being one of the drones. From the moment of their birth to their death, they dont have the equal chance of ever breaking free from that mold. Here in America, anyone can become anything they want to be--- if only they work hard enough. Alot of places don't have even that, that no matter how hard you work, you still are taxed to death, rented to death, etc.

To me a citizen of the planet ideal is nothing more than the babbling of lazy hearts and people who dont want to stand for anything, but pick and chose what they wanna do and more times than not will continue to satisfy themselves rather than do what is necessary or required. Ali and many others did it so it wouldn't have effected his wallet, his religion, his life, etc. rather than stand up for a more noble cause--- for standing up for the ideal that ALL PEOPLE should be free.

Yeah I'm sure all those Vietnamese people working in sweatshops are glad we came over to "liberate" them in the 1960's and 1970's. Don't misunderstand me, I'm glad I was born into a country where I have the freedom to live more or less how I want to within reason, but to pretend that America truly exists to liberate people the world over is just pure ignorance of all the things that the military does.

People like to wrap it all up in a nice little bow and tell themselves that we're the savior of the World and we come over to put an end to all the bad in the World whenever somebody needs us.

Put yourself in the position of those people...Tanks, and Drones, and men with Assault Rifles come in killing you and your people in droves. Do you think they are there to help you?

Look at the way the media refers to the people that are killed in Afghanistan or Iraq. They're "insurgents"...what does that even mean? That word basically didn't even exist until this war. It's just a way to dehumanize these people so that when they die it doesn't matter. It wasn't a person that was killed, it was a no good America hating insurgent.

There are a lot of things about this country I love, and am truly grateful for, but the Military and the Government in general aren't on the list.

[gilgamesh]

I realize my thoughts on matters like I said above are controversial, but I don't mean to disrespect anybody with my thoughts. Merely be provocative and make people think about things they probably don't normally think about.

[knurak]

Just imagine how much better America would have been if Cassius Clay served with 'Honor'.

Instead of this,,,,,,,,

Just imagine how much better this forum would be if your threads were actually about boxing

Instead of this,,,,,,,,,

Hey Clown from another Town,

More members respond to my threads in one day, than all of yours put together.

Thats a fact Jack

Oh That's Right, you're from Michigan.........

Mm, you should be very proud. Your threads certainly do have a lot of posts. Until now, I hadn't realized that the point of a forum was simply to create threads and see who can get the most posts in their thread. Thanks for enlightening me.

Clearly, it's quantity over quality with Il Duce.

[SamWise72]

Fact > People who don't like America are jealous.

Fact > When there is a problem somewhere in the World, America is the 'first' to respond.

Fact > We are far from perfect.

Number 1 fact - that's probably true for SOME people, but there are plenty of other reasons for countries to hate America.

Number 2 fact - that's not even remotely true. There are so many problems in the world that America (and for that matter my own country) don't respond to which are far worse than those they do respond to. America responds out of self interest, and fairly often ignores flagrant breaches of "freedom and democracy", or even intervenes to support them, and then reaps the fruit of that later. In Iran, America stood by and let the Shah, who was a big arms customer, close down the Majilis and imprison the Prime Minister. Then when Iran had it's revolution and the Mullahs hated America, it was the same story "They're evil, they're jealous". In reality, America talks about freedom and democracy, but supports whatever will get it the most money.

Number 3 fact - that's absolutely a fact. America is not all bad, nor Americans, but certainly it's not all good either. It's the arrogance that says "We are morally superior" that upsets people. Acquiring the most toys doesn't make you the moral arbiter, indeed, doing what's necessary to acquire the most toys often means not being moral at all.


And yes, I'd much rather you posted imaginary matchups than endless attacks on Ali, and endless "he really lost this fight", or "He swerved everyone else to take an easy fight" for every one of his opponents. I think you're entitled to your opinion on Ali, and I think you're right on some of it; he's not as unambiguously lovely as I, an Ali fan, would like him to be, but I've got to tell you that you've completely lost my respect and interest over the last few months. I used to enjoy your threads a lot, but now, I mostly don't even read them. It's a shame.