Marvis Frazier - Why pushed into the deep end so quick?

[Dubblechin]

I read that Holmes had done so poorly against a green Tim Witherspoon (who Frazier had beaten as an amateur), that Frazier's people thought Marvis had a shot.

People forget that Marvis Frazier was a favorite to win the gold medal in 1980.

His amateur record was 56-2. That second loss came in his last amateur bout.

Before that, he'd only lost one decision to Tony Tubbs. He also beat Tubbs, Witherspoon, Jimmy Clark, Chris McDonald and Mitch "Blood" Green. People not only thought he'd beat Stevenson, they thought Frazier would race to the title.

But when he lost to James Broad (in the Olympic Trials), the punch had the same affect as someone hitting their head after diving in a shallow pool. He was briefly paralyzed. In fact, he remained on the floor staring at his father, unable to move his arms or legs. That happened again when he was sparring in Philadelphia with Jimmy Young. So he had to have neck surgery. He probably shouldn't have turned pro.

But then he went 19-2 as a pro, beating Bugner, Tillis, Bonecrusher Smith, and avenging his loss to Broad.

He only lost to Holmes and Tyson. He lost to them sensationally, but still.

In his combined pro and amateur career, Marvis Frazier was 75-4. The only guys who beat him who he didn't also have a win over were Holmes and Tyson. That's not too shabby.

[Tomasino]

Good post and agree 100%. He showed guts continuing boxing with a neck injury.

[Vladimir5555]

I think great Teofilo Stevenson would beat Marvis in Olympic Games in Moscow if he take part

[gilgamesh]

I think great Teofilo Stevenson would beat Marvis in Olympic Games in Moscow if he take part

I think most would agree.

[Dubblechin]

Had Marvis NOT suffered a neck injury against Broad, and if he'd gone on to win the Trials (as expected) and arrived at the 1980 Olympics with a 58-1 amateur record, a bout between Stevenson and Frazier in Moscow would've been one of the biggest amateur bouts ever.

But Marvis was like one of those amazing college football stars who suffers a major injury in one of their last college games and never really fulfilled their potential in the pros.

Most people write Marvis off. But most only saw him after he'd suffered his neck injury (which he never really recovered from). Frazier was a legit threat to an aging Stevenson before the injury. After he suffered it, and it kept coming back, he wasn't the same.

He did amazingly well considering he was always one punch away from becoming a paraplegic. I've always thought he was very brave -- and his father was an idiot for letting him even turn pro.

[Vladimir5555]

I think.Zaev and Damiani also has a chances to beat Marvis if he take part in OG.

I think you overrate him.Yes he won Junior World Championship in 1979 but Olympic Games is a other level.

[Dubblechin]

I think.Zaev and Damiani also has a chances to beat Marvis if he take part in OG.

I think you overrate him.

I don't overrate Frazier. I just think he's underrated by nearly everyone. Marvis Frazier outpointed a number of guys in the amateurs who were world class. There was a reason everyone was excited about him. It just didn't have to do with his name. I never thought Damiani or Zaev were overly impressive (from what I've seen) in the amateurs. But everyone has a shot when you talk about heavyweights. It certainly would've been something had a once-beaten Frazier gone to Moscow. It just wasn't in the cards, though. That whole 1980 U.S. squad wasn't meant to be.

[drunkenpiper36]

I think.Zaev and Damiani also has a chances to beat Marvis if he take part in OG.

I think you overrate him.

I don't overrate Frazier. I just think he's underrated by nearly everyone. Marvis Frazier outpointed a number of guys in the amateurs who were world class. There was a reason everyone was excited about him. It just didn't have to do with his name. I never thought Damiani or Zaev were overly impressive (from what I've seen) in the amateurs. But everyone has a shot when you talk about heavyweights. It certainly would've been something had a once-beaten Frazier gone to Moscow. It just wasn't in the cards, though. That whole 1980 U.S. squad wasn't meant to be.

I agree. He was one of the more forgotten heavs of the 80's, and probably under appreciated. His amateur accomplishments were admirable and in truth, he has a lot of good professional wins for a man with only 20 pro fights. If managed differently I think he could have gone a bit further.

[Nile4000]

Marvis was lucky that guys like Tate, Dokes, and Page weren't in the 1980 Trials, they would've taken him.

[drunkenpiper36]

Marvis was lucky that guys like Tate, Dokes, and Page weren't in the 1980 Trials, they would've taken him.

Why? What made them so special in the amateurs? all those guys lost fights.

[Nile4000]

Marvis was lucky that guys like Tate, Dokes, and Page weren't in the 1980 Trials, they would've taken him.

Why? What made them so special in the amateurs? all those guys lost fights.

They had some sucess internationally, especially Page.

[jpowerspotter]

These are some of the most thoughtful comments on Marvis Frazier as a boxer I have ever read (no one ever disputes the fact that he is a great person!), but the best way to answer some of the questions put forth here about Marvis and his career is to see what Marvis himself has to say, and the best way to do that is to read his recently released biography - "Meet Marvis Frazier: The Story of the Son of Smokin' Joe". Details of his amateur career, his injuries, why he fought Holmes and Tyson when he did, why he didn't go after a "fringe" title or compete in a lower weight class, and how Marvis feels about it all are right there in black and white.
Incidentally, James Broad did not "cause" Marvis's neck injury in the 1980 Olympic Trials. Broad's punch was fairly light and to the forehead, but the down pressure it caused in conjunction with the defensive posture Marvis had taken to mitigate the blow revealed a neck defect Marvis had since birth.
If BOXREC will allow me to say, "Meet Marvis Frazier" is available on Amazon and on the website: meetmarvisfrazier.com. Any boxing fan would enjoy it. Thank you

[max hord]

MONEY

[Ambling Alp II]

He probably would have made more in the long run had he been managed better.

[Ezzard]

I still remember cheering him on as a young boy against Joe Bugner.

I watched it my little brother and my nan. Think it was a Saturday night.

I was so pleased when Marvis got the decision.

[Ambling Alp II]

I remember that fight being in the afternoon, not the night.
Frazier showed some promise in that fight. I remember Bugner being upset with the judges; not that he thought that he won but that he had won more rounds than they had given him.

[JMac]

Joe didn't believe in messing around. He once said "if you can't take a good asswhipping you shouldn't be a fighter"

But I think his biggest mistake was trying to turn Marvis into Joe mark II, which was never going to happen

I adore Joe Frazier as a fighter, but he sucked as a trainer. He basically only knew one way to teach guys to fight. Fight like I did, or I just don't know what to tell you.

Marvis definitely should've been more of a boxer, than the pressure fighter Joe was trying to turn him into.

The difference between Marvis as an amateur and pro were who was training him. I trained at the gym during the same time as Marvis. The former great middleweight George Benton was Marvis' trainer in the amateurs. Benton was a great trainer until he really start hitting the booze later in the 80's. He had Marvis boxing more but he could stand and bang when needed. He was a very good amateur boxer. Around '79 or '80, Joe jacked up all of the fees for boxers and trainers and as a result the gym that was the Mecca for boxers changed. Lots of boxers moved on to other gyms and so did many of the trainers including Benton who opened a new gym in north Philly. Joe started training Marvis and as already pointed out by others in this thread, Joe tried to make Marvis box like him. Marvis was much taller than Joe and built totally different. Joe's style worked for Joe but not for Marvis. The rest is history.

[Nile4000]

You put Marvis in against the wrong people, and he still wouldn't win.Good fighter, but better positioned as a cruiserweight. I couldn't see him giving Teofilo Stevenson (or Angel Milian) problems like Jimmy Clark did.

[JMac]

Despite the fact that George Benton was no longer training Marvis and Joe changed his style, Marvis probably went as far as he could and had a career that he could be proud of.