Did Battlin Siki use plaster of Paris vs Georges Carpentier?

[Caractacus]

Cuz he sure looked kind of heavy handed going into the later rounds with the world's Light-Heavyweight Champion Georges Carpentier in 1922.

[klompton]

You mean when he actually started fighting, instead of holding back as per the agreement he had with Georges?

In short no. He couldnt have because in the complete film of the fight Siki and Carpentier shake hands prior to the match and it can be clearly seen that Siki has no hand wraps on. He was either wrapped in the ring prior to the fight with one of Carpentier's handlers looking on, or he wore no wraps at all.

Siki was heavy handed, he just wasnt skilled enough to get the missile to the target on a regular basis against the best fighters. Carpentier was a bit fragile anyway. That, combined with the fact that he expected Siki to honor their agreement and take a dive, combined to make such a dramatic turnaround.

[BoxBuzz]

Well I have to agree with Klompton, not sure how he could used anything unusual in his hand wraps based on the witnesses.

With that said, Klompton....how do you KNOW about the fix? Is this your opinion? I'm not trying to be snarky here.

Just wondering what sort of documentation or eyewitness/verbal testimony makes your assertion such a lock?


I did a lot of research on Carnera, so when I say I believe a lot of the earlier fixes, I feel I'm not just guessing.

Is there that sort of evidence out there to convince you of this?

[klompton]

Well I have to agree with Klompton, not sure how he could used anything unusual in his hand wraps based on the witnesses.

With that said, Klompton....how do you KNOW about the fix? Is this your opinion? I'm not trying to be snarky here.

Just wondering what sort of documentation or eyewitness/verbal testimony makes your assertion such a lock?


I did a lot of research on Carnera, so when I say I believe a lot of the earlier fixes, I feel I'm not just guessing.

Is there that sort of evidence out there to convince you of this?

Considering Carpentier admitted to it in his second biography and Siki testified to it in court (and didnt have to as it didnt do him any favors) and the film of the fight plays out just as Siki and his manager described in court down to Carpentiers manager running all the way around the ring to yell at Siki's manager for double crossing them during the action id say its a safe bet it happened.

[BoxBuzz]

Fair enough.....is there any other corroboration other than the biography? Purely curious on this. Not doubting, just wondering what else there is to refer to. Or is that the sum total? And is Siki's testimony referred to in his bio? Or in other publications?

This is fascinating to me.

Thanks Klompton.

[Caractacus]

Yeah,I too would like to see a copy of the signed contract that Battlin Siki sighned
where he agreed he was going to make the Light Heavyweight Champion Georges Carpentier look good for the cameras and take it easy on him.

PS Maybe Georges Carpentier was misquoted in his own autobiography like Larry Holmes was in his?

[Caractacus]

You mean when he actually started fighting, instead of holding back as per the agreement he had with Georges?

In short no. He couldnt have because in the complete film of the fight Siki and Carpentier shake hands prior to the match and it can be clearly seen that Siki has no hand wraps on. He was either wrapped in the ring prior to the fight with one of Carpentier's handlers looking on, or he wore no wraps at all.

Yeah,it looked more to me like Siki started to actually fight(unbeknowst to Carpentier) as soon as the bell rang to open round round.
No small wonder Carpentier was confused,because he was apparently double crossed.

Also you never heard of plaster that doesnt start to hardin until about after minutes later?

[klompton]

Whatever, believe what you want. Sticking your head in the sand wont change the fact that from time to time your beloved sport dips into the gutter.

I wont even respond to the ignorance of a comment about plaster of paris being used in a fight where the fighter in question was at best wrapped and gloved in the ring in full view of the officials and Carpentier's people and at worst didnt even wear wraps on which they could have used plaster of paris.

[BoxBuzz]

Maybe there is a blood clotting agent that hardens INSIDE the hands and then returns to a gelatinous state AFTER the blood pressure returns to nomal?

This COULD explain it as well.

[Cap]

Carpentier was over the hill by the time he fought Siki. Siki was a hard-punching brawler with little boxing skill. Against someone good like McTigue, he was exposed for what he was.

[Caractacus]

Carpentier was over the hill by the time he fought Siki. Siki was a hard-punching brawler with little boxing skill. Against someone good like McTigue, he was exposed for what he was.

That and because he still may have had a massive headache from being knocked-out by the"Manassa Mauler" a year earlier.

[klompton]

Carpentier was over the hill by the time he fought Siki. Siki was a hard-punching brawler with little boxing skill. Against someone good like McTigue, he was exposed for what he was.

A guy who got robbed by a ham and egger? Because that what Siki was against McTigue. Youd know that if youd seen the whole fight instead of just talking out of your ass as usual. McTigue was shit. One of the worst "champions" ever.

[Caractacus]

A guy who got robbed by a ham and egger? Because that what Siki was against McTigue. Youd know that if youd seen the whole fight instead of just talking out of your ass as usual. McTigue was poo. One of the worst "champions" ever.

Man,are you absolutely sure that your comments may be(sub-conciously) predujuiced based on the colour of Mike McTique's skin colour?
or maybe because of his Nationallity?

[Caractacus]

Here is a film clip of the 1922 bout.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5LBLtCV4p8

[Cap]

Carpentier was over the hill by the time he fought Siki. Siki was a hard-punching brawler with little boxing skill. Against someone good like McTigue, he was exposed for what he was.

A guy who got robbed by a ham and egger? Because that what Siki was against McTigue. Youd know that if youd seen the whole fight instead of just talking out of your ass as usual. McTigue was poo. One of the worst "champions" ever.

Oh, look, everybody! It's Klompy, king of the rectal-vocalists and master film-hoarder. Mike McTigue was a great fighter, but he wasn't Klompy's man-crush Harry Greb, so he'll never measure up. DD

[Caractacus]

If you ask me it may have looked like Carpentier was hurting Battling Siki in the first round,
then he sort of felt sorry for him,and then let his guard down and let Battling Siki "off the hook"
and then was fouled and wasnt able to come back hardly after being fowled.

[klompton]

A guy who got robbed by a ham and egger? Because that what Siki was against McTigue. Youd know that if youd seen the whole fight instead of just talking out of your ass as usual. McTigue was poo. One of the worst "champions" ever.

Man,are you absolutely sure that your comments may be(sub-conciously) predujuiced based on the colour of Mike McTique's skin colour?
or maybe because of his Nationallity?

I'm not biased I've just studied mctigue a lot and this fight and I happen to own an unedited copy. Three things that cap can't boast of so he'd rather just make uneducated blanket statements about fighters and situations he knows nothing about. Par for the course.

[klompton]

If you ask me it may have looked like Carpentier was hurting Battling Siki in the first round,
then he sort of felt sorry for him,and then let his guard down and let Battling Siki "off the hook"
and then was fouled and wasnt able to come back hardly after being fowled.

Lol. "felt sorry for..."