James 'Lights Out' Toney

[magwitch]

A fighter before my time. Took the title from McCallum, I believe - in a fight he was predicted to lose.
I saw him in a re-run the other day versus a plucky underdog called Oliver. '96 I think. Toney looked pretty sulky, a bit contemptuous of his opponent, it went 12 rounds and his trainer was talking about Roy Jones Jr.
Toney looked a few pounds above his 'best weight'.
As I understand it he is considered an ATG and was in the top two or three lb for lb'ers, around about '90/ 91.....would that be fair?

[palooka]

He won the middleweight title from Nunn in an upset and the supermiddle from Barkley. When he was on form he was a boxer I could watch all day. The Prince Charles Williams, Jirov and Holyfield bouts are exceptional displays of talent, class and spite. His destruction of Barkley was painful go watch. Toney was a master boxer and counterpuncher.

[tommo100]

he actually beat Michael for his first world title,despite being out boxed for 10 rounds,luckily for toney,nunn ran out of gas and he stopped him in the 11th
if there was atg for trash talking then he would undoubtedly be the top,as a fighter,he was a poor trainer and had trouble keeping his weight down between fights,at his best he would have been a handful for anyone,but when it came to training,he made Wilfred benitez look dedicated,he had a short peak was tortured by roy jones jnr and though he did manage to win another title,i wouldn't put him in atg territory tbh

[magwitch]

he actually beat Michael for his first world title,despite being out boxed for 10 rounds,luckily for toney,nunn ran out of gas and he stopped him in the 11th
if there was atg for trash talking then he would undoubtedly be the top,as a fighter,he was a poor trainer and had trouble keeping his weight down between fights,at his best he would have been a handful for anyone,but when it came to training,he made Wilfred benitez look dedicated,he had a short peak was tortured by roy jones jnr and though he did manage to win another title,i wouldn't put him in atg territory tbh

Great posts - whoops, looks like I owe McCallum an apology!
Wilfred Benitez was a bad trainer? Isn't that the guy Leonard took his first title off over 15? ...or possibly 14.

[palooka]

Benitez wasn't the most Spartan and relied on his natural talent too much. Toney did very well to get to middleweight, I read that he'd been in the school American football team at about 16 stone, he had to really work and starve to get down.

[Bodyshot3]

By all accounts a frigging nightmare to manage or work with.

His career was 'managed' for some time by a remarkable lady called Jackie Kallen who was very good and supportive of him...I think he had a falling-out with Kallen which most people were not at all surprised about and saw it largely in favour of Jackie.

But despite being a bit of an arse he was also a supreme fighter who landed some big results that made his massive attitude worth enduring.

Beating a seriously big, properly nasty bulldozer like Jirov (who was good) was an incredible achievement and its a fight worth going to a certain social media site for. One of the very few cruiserweight fights that deserves to be called a classic.

[handsofstone]

He won the middleweight title from Nunn in an upset and the supermiddle from Barkley. When he was on form he was a boxer I could watch all day. The Prince Charles Williams, Jirov and Holyfield bouts are exceptional displays of talent, class and spite. His destruction of Barkley was painful go watch. Toney was a master boxer and counterpuncher.

Toney-Jirov is next on my list of classic fights to watch

[Bricks]

By all accounts a frigging nightmare to manage or work with.

His career was 'managed' for some time by a remarkable lady called Jackie Kallen who was very good and supportive of him...I think he had a falling-out with Kallen which most people were not at all surprised about and saw it largely in favour of Jackie.

But despite being a bit of an arse he was also a supreme fighter who landed some big results that made his massive attitude worth enduring.

Beating a seriously big, properly nasty bulldozer like Jirov (who was good) was an incredible achievement and its a fight worth going to a certain social media site for. One of the very few cruiserweight fights that deserves to be called a classic.

Yeah the people who saw it in favour of that ambulance chasing cccunt kallen must have been other racists. Donald mcrae certainly saw it in favour of toney and he followed them around for his book.kallen was taking a hufe cut of toneys purse and using him to publicise herself.she marketed them as " beauty and the beast" and tried to portray toney as an ignorant black bad ass street kid.all or most his boorish behaviour was under her.....in reality to ney came from a very middle class background.his mom ran a succesfull bakery business.

Anyone who thinks toney isnt an atg needs a lobotomy.

Sure he was an underachiever and wasted 95-2001 but even in that time he cleaned up the cruiser contenders pretty handily while fighting on memory. If he had lived up to his potential hed be a top 15 atg.

Incredible record. Even at hw he was avoided by the klitchkos during 2003-2007 when he wasnt shot.

[palooka]

He won the middleweight title from Nunn in an upset and the supermiddle from Barkley. When he was on form he was a boxer I could watch all day. The Prince Charles Williams, Jirov and Holyfield bouts are exceptional displays of talent, class and spite. His destruction of Barkley was painful go watch. Toney was a master boxer and counterpuncher.

Toney-Jirov is next on my list of classic fights to watch

Jirov won the Val Barker trophy at the '96 Atlanta Olympics and was 31-0 when Toney beat him.

[Counter-puncher]

The Prince Charles Williams, Jirov and Holyfield bouts are exceptional displays of talent, class and spite. .

nicely put

[Dancin' Dan]

Definite Hall of Famer. Beat Nunn, R Johnson, Prince Charles, Mccallum, Jirov and Holyfield...that alone should get him in.

[orbtastic]

He chased his manager down with a gun, classic.

Ring Mag (or was it KO?) amazingly picked Barkley to beat Toney in their pre-fight analysis.

[orbtastic]

The Littles fight is also worth a watch, cut and on the verge of being stopped he puts the hurt on Littles. Littles was a little underrated, he was a very good super middle, who can forgot that epic brawl in the Liles rematch?

The PCW fight lost a little of its lustre for me as he made him boil down to 168 when he was a career light heavy.

[orbtastic]

Avoid the Tiberi and Thadzi fights though, not his finest moments.

[Counter-puncher]

The PCW fight lost a little of its lustre for me as he made him boil down to 168 when he was a career light heavy.

sure, fair points; watching it, though, I would aways forget any weightmaking qualifications. just watching how relaxed Toney was able to be under pressure is a marvel and the only story I care about in the fight once i'm watching.

[palooka]

The PCW fight lost a little of its lustre for me as he made him boil down to 168 when he was a career light heavy.

sure, fair points; watching it, though, I would aways forget any weightmaking qualifications. just watching how relaxed Toney was able to be under pressure is a marvel and the only story I care about in the fight once i'm watching.

I was amazed how comfortable Toney was on the ropes, indeed he was winning the fight from against the ropes. I'd not seen anyone that cool under fire since Mike Ayala v Little Red Lopez.

[Counter-puncher]

Yeah he had a way of being relaxed on the ropes that was contemptuous, pretty much spiteful to use your word, which is a weird paradox to get your head round. The dismissive way he acted in the Barkley fight was almost more painful to watch than the punches he was landing.

[Tomasino]

The PCW fight lost a little of its lustre for me as he made him boil down to 168 when he was a career light heavy.

sure, fair points; watching it, though, I would aways forget any weightmaking qualifications. just watching how relaxed Toney was able to be under pressure is a marvel and the only story I care about in the fight once i'm watching.

I was amazed how comfortable Toney was on the ropes, indeed he was winning the fight from against the ropes. I'd not seen anyone that cool under fire since Mike Ayala v Little Red Lopez.

Mike was really really relaxed in that one.

[palooka]

Mike was mellow.

[Counter-puncher]